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The Elephant in the Room: how do you beat Kanan Fenn?

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27 minutes ago, Mu0n729 said:

What's this about Sensor Jammer and using tokens that is bringing you down?

I built that exact list, night before last.  It's definitely got a decent chance against Mauler Ghost, but it's uphill against a lot of the other power lists.

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I built that exact list, night before last.  It's definitely got a decent chance against Mauler Ghost, but it's uphill against a lot of the other power lists.

You know, just one of those Expertise/HLC/Linked Battery Gunboats is probably sufficient to take Fenn in two turns.

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8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

You know, just one of those Expertise/HLC/Linked Battery Gunboats is probably sufficient to take Fenn in two turns.

Maaaaaybe.  But you have to get shots on Fenn for two turns.  (Remember: (1) Fenn has BR.  (2) That one Gunboat will die in two turns.)

To make it have a chance, you honestly have to go all-in.

EDIT: People think the reason this list is so crazy strong is because of the defense.  They tend to ignore the offense.  But the offense of this list is bonkers.  It will do 3 to 4, spiking to 5 or 6, in a turn.  Every turn.  When head-simming, you have to account for that incredibly fast erosion of your list.  This isn't normal TLT damage, where you can expect a full TLT to do 1 damage a turn.  Mauler Ghost will do 3 to 4, spiking higher, every turn.  If the reader does not believe this, it's because the reader has not actually played it.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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2 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Does Autoblaster Cannon have a place in this discussion?

Sensor jammer negates 1. Assuming you can accurately hit for the other 2 you still have to brave range 1 of a 5 dice highly modified primary. 

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GHOSTBUSTERS

original-4407-1422398567-4.jpg?downsize=

Rho Squadron Veteran — Alpha-class Star Wing 21
Expertise 4
Heavy Laser Cannon 7
Linked Battery 2
Long-Range Scanners 0
XG-1 Assault Configuration 1
Ship Total: 35
   
Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
Targeting Computer 2
Royal Guard TIE 0
Ship Total: 34
   
The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
TIE/v1 1
Ship Total: 31

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Maaaaaybe.  But you have to get shots on Fenn for two turns.  (Remember: (1) Fenn has BR.  (2) That one Gunboat will die in two turns.)

To make it have a chance, you honestly have to go all-in.

Fenn has BR conditionally, but that HLC casts a wide net. 

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Just now, Boom Owl said:

GHOSTBUSTERS

original-4407-1422398567-4.jpg?downsize=

Rho Squadron Veteran — Alpha-class Star Wing 21
Expertise 4
Heavy Laser Cannon 7
Linked Battery 2
Long-Range Scanners 0
XG-1 Assault Configuration 1
Ship Total: 35
   
Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
Targeting Computer 2
Royal Guard TIE 0
Ship Total: 34
   
The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
TIE/v1 1
Ship Total: 31

Enough space on Gunboat wing for that logo?

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I'm not sure linked batteries is worth it in the triple boat list. Fenn can only shut down one of the TLs, not all 3.

Since you've already paid for the title I feel like a Flechette Cannon or Tractor Beam may be better so you can 2 hard 2 hard SLAM and still fire on the turn after the joust as well adding a control element against other meta lists.

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38 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

 If the reader does not believe this, it's because the reader has not actually played it.

My Palp aces actually lose a lot less HP per round. ;-)
But yeah, Gunboats gonna melt, especially without Palpatine. Palp is surprisingly good in not getting hit by the maul + ezra combo and blocking Maul for a few shots as he can not get rid of the stress if he does not hit. Palp basically can compensate the lack of defensive or offensive focus token and once Fenn is down the damage of the Ghost is going down significantly as well, because now Focus can be used defensively which in return hinders the use of Maul (Ezra still a pain)

 

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1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I built that exact list, night before last.  It's definitely got a decent chance against Mauler Ghost, but it's uphill against a lot of the other power lists.

Against other lists you have to get up like everybody and realize it's time to slam now

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Okay, so modifiers outside of tokens are unaffected by a lot of this.

So , Expertise...   but also Glitterstim.

What about a Scum Alpha that relies on Gliterstim, ASTS, and Guidance Chips for mods, and the GC sets off the Harpooned condition?  Everyone goes straight for the Ghost.  They are all PS 5-7.  I know this would have a hard time against other lists though, but might be pretty scary for a Ghost/Fenn??

 

Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter 23
Adaptability 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Munitions Failsafe 1
Hull Upgrade 3
Vaksai 0
Ship Total: 29
   
Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter 23
Adaptability 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Munitions Failsafe 1
Hull Upgrade 3
Vaksai 0
Ship Total: 29
   
N'Dru Suhlak — Z-95 Headhunter 17
Adaptability 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 23
   
Kaa'to Leeachos — Z-95 Headhunter 15
A Score to Settle 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 19

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Okay, so modifiers outside of tokens are unaffected by a lot of this.

So , Expertise...   but also Glitterstim.

What about a Scum Alpha that relies on Gliterstim, ASTS, and Guidance Chips for mods, and the GC sets off the Harpooned condition?  Everyone goes straight for the Ghost.  They are all PS 5-7.  I know this would have a hard time against other lists though, but might be pretty scary for a Ghost/Fenn??

 

Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter 23
Adaptability 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Munitions Failsafe 1
Hull Upgrade 3
Vaksai 0
Ship Total: 29
   
Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter 23
Adaptability 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Munitions Failsafe 1
Hull Upgrade 3
Vaksai 0
Ship Total: 29
   
N'Dru Suhlak — Z-95 Headhunter 17
Adaptability 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 23
   
Kaa'to Leeachos — Z-95 Headhunter 15
A Score to Settle 0
Harpoon Missiles 4
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 19

 

 

Needs 400% more deadeye?

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20 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Needs 400% more deadeye?

Against OTHER things, but in this case these guys are moving AFTER the Ghost.

EDIT:

 

@Boom Owl By dropping Hull Upgrade on the K-Fighters I was able to put DeadEye and Glitterstim on all four ships. 

Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter 23
Deadeye 1
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Munitions Failsafe 1
Vaksai 0
Ship Total: 27
   
Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter 23
Deadeye 1
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Munitions Failsafe 1
Vaksai 0
Ship Total: 27
   
N'Dru Suhlak — Z-95 Headhunter 17
Deadeye 1
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 24
   
Kaa'to Leeachos — Z-95 Headhunter 15
Deadeye 1
Harpoon Missiles 4
Glitterstim 2
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 22
Edited by Boba Rick

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Its been 12 pages and 10 days and I've lost track. Did we cover Palp QD Inq as a counter to ghost/fenn?

How bout this?

Palp expQD Inq  (99/100)
========================
Lambda-class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot (21 + 8)
    + Collision Detector (0)
    + Emperor Palpatine (8)
TIE Adv. Prototype: The Inquisitor (25 + 6)
    + Push the Limit (3)
    + TIE/v 1 (1)
    + Autothrusters (2)
TIE/SF Fighter: Quickdraw (29 + 10)
    + Expertise (4)
    + Fire Control System (2)
    + Advanced Optics (2)
    + Special Ops Training (0)
    + Lightweight Frame (2)

Edited by DXCrazytrain

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2 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Its been 12 pages and 10 days and ive lost track. Did we cover Palp QD Inq as a counter to ghost/fenn?

How bout this?

Palp expQD Inq  (99/100)
========================
Lambda-class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot (21 + 8)
    + Collision Detector (0)
    + Emperor Palpatine (8)
TIE Adv. Prototype: The Inquisitor (25 + 6)
    + Push the Limit (3)
    + TIE/v 1 (1)
    + Autothrusters (2)
TIE/SF Fighter: Quickdraw (29 + 10)
    + Expertise (4)
    + Fire Control System (2)
    + Advanced Optics (2)
    + Special Ops Training (0)
    + Lightweight Frame (2)

Yea this and original Palp stuff with Inqy/Soontir.  Something like what you posted genuinely seems like the best possible option. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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Fight fire with fire!

I'm a huge fan of Engine on Rey, but it doesn't fit with Expertise and a decent Lothal.  This, though, can melt Fenn in a turn or 2 and has the longevity to then burn down the other VCX.  It's arguable it could ignore Fenn early and concentrate on the VCX.  To face the field, though, I think Rey needs Engine, which means no Expertise, which means a much more uphill battle against Ghost/Fenn.

Lothal Rebel (35)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Hera Syndulla (1)

Rey (45)
Expertise (4)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Burnout SLAM (1)
Smuggling Compartment (0)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

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After mulling it over for a minute, I think Inqy likes a having his buddy Yorr around and expertise QD doesn't have as much need for Advanced Optics.

Ver2.0

Yorr expQD Inq (100/100)
=======================
Lambda-class Shuttle: Captain Yorr (24 + 8)
    + Collision Detector (0)
    + Emperor Palpatine (8)
TIE/SF Fighter: Quickdraw (29 + 8)
    + Expertise (4)
    + Fire Control System (2)
    + Special Ops Training (0)
    + Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Adv. Prototype: The Inquisitor (25 + 6)
    + Push the Limit (3)
    + TIE/v 1 (1)
    + Autothrusters (2)

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14 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

After mulling it over for a minute, I think Inqy likes a having his buddy Yorr around and expertise QD doesn't have as much need for Advanced Optics.

Ver2.0

Yorr expQD Inq (100/100)
=======================
Lambda-class Shuttle: Captain Yorr (24 + 8)
    + Collision Detector (0)
    + Emperor Palpatine (8)
TIE/SF Fighter: Quickdraw (29 + 8)
    + Expertise (4)
    + Fire Control System (2)
    + Special Ops Training (0)
    + Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Adv. Prototype: The Inquisitor (25 + 6)
    + Push the Limit (3)
    + TIE/v 1 (1)
    + Autothrusters (2)

Ding Ding Ding. Lots of different ways to set up Quickdraw to deal with the Ghost. I'm not even sure you have to give up VI/Optics. 

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31 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Rey/Lowhhrick (with Ezra/Maul/DTF on Low) murders this horribly.

ALl of its defence mods are passive, it has way better jousting power, and a not-unreasonable chance of dodging TLTs in the right contexts.

 

What about Wulfy for better offense?

Wullffwarro — Auzituck Gunship 30
Wired 1
Maul 3
Ezra Bridger 3
Ship Total: 37
   
Rey — YT-1300 45
Expertise 4
Kanan Jarrus 3
Finn 5
Engine Upgrade 4
Millennium Falcon (TFA) 1
Ship Total: 62

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So uh

Maybe it's just because I like wonky generic builds but the only time I've lost against this archetype has been due to some pretty unfortunate dice on my end

High HP or Autothrusters, crack shot to deal with Fenn, Expertise (or Marksmanship depending on your setup), good flying to force fire splits etc. all make this a pretty manageable matchup

It's obviously a great list, but if you get Fenn down and have a couple ships that move after the Ghost and can reposition and/or has autothrusters leftover you can just stay in the ghost's pocket and win.  If he launches the shuttle, that's great, since you no longer have to worry about rear primary shots, double taps, etc.

Its strengths are pretty obvious but its weaknesses are, too.  Kill Fenn, stay in the pocket, murder til victory.

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