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Kieransi

The big Clone Wars thread.

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Come on, guys, you're bound to have fun shooting down the squad of Naboo N1 fighters that some guy at your store would inevitably fly. Or maybe the N1 would be an excuse to bundle another copy of Flight Assist Astromech with some kind of torp that would combo together to make the T-65 Great Again (TM). Either way, FFG makes money, and the PT fans get to fly what they want, and everyone gets to shoot a few down. What's not to like?

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Yes, these ships are LONG over due in the game.  And I really want them to have their own factions.  Not only because it will shake up the game having 5 factions instead of 3, but then we can also get a lot more characters into the game that aren't in it currently.

Also I don't get the whole "shiny/smooth" critique.  It obviously applies to the naboo ships as that was intentional, but not to any of the other prequel ships for the most part.  They have faded paint, score marks, detailed panels, etc.

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1 hour ago, markcsoul said:

Also I don't get the whole "shiny/smooth" critique.  It obviously applies to the naboo ships as that was intentional, but not to any of the other prequel ships for the most part.  They have faded paint, score marks, detailed panels, etc.

2

Shhh!  Don't let logic, facts, and reason get in the way of a good (or rather, very bad) argument! 

Edited by Alpha17

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I think the Scurrg is overlooked as a test of dual faction expansions, and as a prequel era ship. 

I’m hoping this is the patern for upcoming prequel era expansions in X-wing. Create new factions for Republic and CIS, and release their expansions with pilots for Rebel or Empire where appropriate. 

N-1: Ric Olie & Co for Republic. Shara & Co for Rebels

V-Wing: Clones for Republic. Vader and Tarkin for Empire

Y-Wing: Republic Clone generics, Rex ace with Republic & Rebel pilot cards

ARC-170: Republic Clones and Imperial pilots

Droid Fighters for CIS and Scum. A recent Poe Dameron comic featured Vulture Droids flying for a disreputable businessman. 

Edited by jmswood

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I don't think the problem with clone wars Era ships is the fact that "no one likes them" It's the factions that are the problem. Adding the Republic and the CIS would have to go in one of three odd ways, 1: They are each their own faction, so you will have the Republic fighting the Empire and the Rebellion, which will be weird. 2: You sort it "good guys go with good guys (republic+rebels and Empire+CIS) but this would be weird because the Republic turns into the empire. 3: The Empire and the Republic merge into one mega faction, and now... the CIS are with the rebels? It would just be weird no matter how you do it. The reason the sequel trilogy fits in so well with the game is because the Resistance and the First Order are pretty much the same factions. 

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10 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

I don't think the problem with clone wars Era ships is the fact that "no one likes them" It's the factions that are the problem. Adding the Republic and the CIS would have to go in one of three odd ways, 1: They are each their own faction, so you will have the Republic fighting the Empire and the Rebellion, which will be weird. 2: You sort it "good guys go with good guys (republic+rebels and Empire+CIS) but this would be weird because the Republic turns into the empire. 3: The Empire and the Republic merge into one mega faction, and now... the CIS are with the rebels? It would just be weird no matter how you do it. The reason the sequel trilogy fits in so well with the game is because the Resistance and the First Order are pretty much the same factions. 

So, y'all will go to a tournament and have "mirror matches" of Rebels killing Rebels no problem, but toss in the Republic and "oh, man, I just can't handle it if it was Rebels vs. Republic, that just don't make no sense."

Or Luke vs. Luke.  Or Vader vs. Kylo Ren.  But if it were Anakin vs. Vader. . .

And the ships are smooth and shiny.  Like Phasma.

The factions aren't a problem.  There are 2 more.  If anything is a problem, it's what does Scum mean in the CW era, and where does Darth Maul go since his boss is the Republic but his "politics" are to wreck it (like the CiS).

Edited by Darth Meanie

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14 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, y'all will go to a tournament and have "mirror matches" of Rebels killing Rebels no problem, but toss in the Republic and "oh, man, I just can't handle it if it was Rebels vs. Republic, that just don't make no sense."

Or Luke vs. Luke.  Or Vader vs. Kylo Ren.  But if it were Anakin vs. Vader. . .

And the ships are smooth and shiny.  Like Phasma.

The factions aren't a problem.  There are 2 more.  If anything is a problem, it's what does Scum mean in the CW era, and where does Darth Maul go since his boss is the Republic but his "politics" are to wreck it (like the CiS).

I didn't mean it would be a problem "thematically" playing the game. I mean't from a gameplay perspective. It would take a lot of time and releases for the Republic and CIS to be big enough factions to really impact the game. Look, I really like the Clone Wars, please don't think I don't want this stuff to. I think the Clones Wars show is one of the best parts of Star Wars, coming close to OT level in my book.  

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6 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

I didn't mean it would be a problem "thematically" playing the game. I mean't from a gameplay perspective. It would take a lot of time and releases for the Republic and CIS to be big enough factions to really impact the game. Look, I really like the Clone Wars, please don't think I don't want this stuff to. I think the Clones Wars show is one of the best parts of Star Wars, coming close to OT level in my book.  

Agreed.  But we already have the ARC and the Sheathipede, for example.

Get the N1 into the game as Rebel, the V-Wing in as Imperial, and a couple more.

Then, release a S&V style starter kit that adds 2 more ships, plus pumps out cardboard for the ones that have been added to the Rebel and Imperial factions.

Boom, 2 new factions up and running.  Then a couple waves that are heavy on the new prequel stuff.  And do a lot more cross faction releases: add the old Y-Wing, but let the Rebels have access to it, too.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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9 hours ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

Well, you know, other than all the ones that are.  I said "ships" not just fighters. Star Destroyers, the lambda shuttle, etc.  Even though the fighters are pretty blocky other than being roughly spheroid for the cockpit. Look at a close up of the TIE Fighter models and compare it to a closeup of the Eta fighter. They look nothing alike in terms of design aesthetic. Everything on the Eta is smooth, polished.  Everything on the TIE Fighter is covered in small panels, exposed access ports, bizarre little ribbing, etc.  There could quite well be literally nothing in the prequels that looks remotely like the X-Wing or the A-Wing etc.  In 18 years, the universe went to this from this.  Flimsy arguments about different manufacturers aside, there's absolutely no continuity there.  The ARC 170 model looks nothing like an X-Wing other than having flappy winglets, for example.  

Basically, in 18 years, all the slick external paneling in the universe suddenly got lost, lol.  Guess the naked sportbike craze hit the galaxy or something.

Republic capships aren't much less blocky than ISDs. Lambda is the essence of elegance, and is pretty smooth to that. 

Every ship is covered in panels, including the Eta you linked, and I bet it took you some time to find greebles on A-wing :D ARC has exposed engines, that easily more greeble area than A-wing and X-wing combined.

Speaking of which, oh my, this is where all the smooth paneling must have gone! A-wing is more than prequel level of smooth, so is X-wing except for the top rear, rear, engines and internal side of the wings. And look at that B-wing!

Even Y-wing in all it's expositionist glory is clearly meant to be a slick mofo, just stripped down.

 

It's funny to see "flimsy argument" written next to a comparison between a royal yacht of a rich planet and a beat up ancinet freighter of a smuggler deep in debt. Which BTW is from before the prequels.

 

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How many CIS ships are there? 2-3 waves worth? 

Vulture, Tri, Hyena, Bellubab, Ginivex.. and then the random -pede shuttles. 

Maybe 4. Of course, you can bloat it with some "scum" ships, and characters like Maul (who else would be a pilot there? Maybe Savage?) But I feel if they are supposed to be fully separate factions, they will run out of steam early. 

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On the other hand you have the Republic, and so many Jedi pilots you couldn't get them all out if you wanted to. 

And then we have the dozens of named clones the mandalorian Fanboys are no doubt in love with. 

 

I think the prequel era enhances the problems of the base game. Character and ship discrepancy between factions, further decreasing the "humanity" of both factions by using droids and clones.

And there is the elephant in the room. 

Currently Star Wars is moving away from the prequels. They don't want to do anything that might remind folks to those times. 

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Honestly, I think the CIS faction could open up interesting design space for faction identity.   The standard battle unit of the CIS, the vulture droid, are pretty basic.  

If the CIS had to have a leader/general/tactical droid to give them more functionality.   Perhaps the CIS faction needs to have a support ship to increase the capability of the other ships, which if lost, drops all the PS, of said vultures to one.

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3 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Honestly, I think the CIS faction could open up interesting design space for faction identity.   The standard battle unit of the CIS, the vulture droid, are pretty basic.  

If the CIS had to have a leader/general/tactical droid to give them more functionality.   Perhaps the CIS faction needs to have a support ship to increase the capability of the other ships, which if lost, drops all the PS, of said vultures to one.

Well... interesting is one word we could use for that mechanic.

 

Why would that be worth it? Why would you put all your PS in one proverbial basket? If you want your PS to be high, you don't wanna lose it, and this is THE way to lose it, and if you don't care about PS, you don't wanna bring this at all.

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1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

How many CIS ships are there? 2-3 waves worth? 

Vulture, Tri, Hyena, Bellubab, Ginivex.. and then the random -pede shuttles. 

Maybe 4. Of course, you can bloat it with some "scum" ships, and characters like Maul (who else would be a pilot there? Maybe Savage?) But I feel if they are supposed to be fully separate factions, they will run out of steam early. 

12-13 ships in canon alone (and I'm sure I missed some), and many more in Legends.

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9 hours ago, jmswood said:

I think the Scurrg is overlooked as a test of dual faction expansions, and as a prequel era ship. 

I’m hoping this is the patern for upcoming prequel era expansions in X-wing. Create new factions for Republic and CIS, and release their expansions with pilots for Rebel or Empire where appropriate. 

N-1: Ric Olie & Co for Republic. Shara & Co for Rebels

V-Wing: Clones for Republic. Vader and Tarkin for Empire

Y-Wing: Republic Clone generics, Rex ace with Republic & Rebel pilot cards

ARC-170: Republic Clones and Imperial pilots

Droid Fighters for CIS and Scum. A recent Poe Dameron comic featured Vulture Droids flying for a disreputable businessman. 

So a N1 Starfighter expansion that has both Leia and Padme in it? I'm down!

8 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

s a problem, it's what does Scum mean in the CW era, and where does Darth Maul go since his boss is the Republic but his "politics" are to wreck it (like the CiS).

Maul would go with Scum, he was his own agent during the Clone Wars and worked with various crime gangs. 

8 hours ago, Sir Orrin said:

I didn't mean it would be a problem "thematically" playing the game. I mean't from a gameplay perspective. It would take a lot of time and releases for the Republic and CIS to be big enough factions to really impact the game. Look, I really like the Clone Wars, please don't think I don't want this stuff to. I think the Clones Wars show is one of the best parts of Star Wars, coming close to OT level in my book.  

As someone said before they would likely have to do something similar to the Scum release with a Most Wanted style 'starter' and a wave or two of mostly Clone Wars stuff. And going with the idea another person mentioned they could dual faction some of the ships to  release entirely Clone Wars waves that have crossover with the Rebels or Empire. 

41 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

How many CIS ships are there? 2-3 waves worth? 

Vulture, Tri, Hyena, Bellubab, Ginivex.. and then the random -pede shuttles. 

Maybe 4. Of course, you can bloat it with some "scum" ships, and characters like Maul (who else would be a pilot there? Maybe Savage?) But I feel if they are supposed to be fully separate factions, they will run out of steam early. 

Lets see, they have Hyena Bombers, Vulture Droids, Geonosian Fighter, Ginivex Fanblade Fighter (Ventress),Belbullab Fighter (Grevious)Droid Tri Fighter, Rogue-class Starfighter (CIS + Cad Bane), Umbaran Starfighter, Scimitar (Maul, though could be Scum), Slave 1 (Dual version, Scum with Hondo and Jango with a CIS Jango too), Sheathipede Shuttle, Maxillipede Shuttle, HMP Droid Gunship, Proto-Vulture Droid, Advanced Vulture Droid, E-STAP Droid bomber, Scarab class Droid Fighter, Dagger class Fighter (Maybe?), Morningstar Starfighter, HEX Bomber, Sabaoth Starfighter, and Techo Union Starfighter.

I might have missed a couple but I think this would give more that 3-4 waves of ships.  

29 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

I think the prequel era enhances the problems of the base game. Character and ship discrepancy between factions, further decreasing the "humanity" of both factions by using droids and clones.

And there is the elephant in the room. 

Currently Star Wars is moving away from the prequels. They don't want to do anything that might remind folks to those times. 

I think that is more of a non-issue, how many people know a bunch of the EU pilots? I've seen plenty of posts asking who 'X' is or if FFG just makes up most of the pilots, so long as people recognize the ship that is what is important. But your other point, yea that is one of the harder issues, it has been pretty clear that they want to focus on all the new hotness and not drag people's minds back to the prequels and how most people see them.

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Droids with dual pilot cards. 

Vulture Droid (Controlled)

“When attacking or defending, if there is a friendly Vulture Droid at Range 1, you may reroll 1 of your blank results.”

“At the start of the Combat Phase, if there is no other friendly Vulture Droid at Range 1-3, flip this card.”

Vulture Droid (Autonomous)

”At the start of the Combat Phase, if there is at least 1 other friendly Vulture Droid at range 1-3, flip this card.”

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I've said for years that I'd love to see a separate, but compatible game called "Jedi Starfighter" or something, with the factions Republic and Separatist. That way it'd be easy for players to decide on their own whether to pit Anakin against Vader or not. TOs could announce which factions were legal for their events.

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1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

Well... interesting is one word we could use for that mechanic.

 

Why would that be worth it? Why would you put all your PS in one proverbial basket? If you want your PS to be high, you don't wanna lose it, and this is THE way to lose it, and if you don't care about PS, you don't wanna bring this at all.

That is a danger, so the play style would have to reflect that.   

To counter the leader being vulnerable, developing various ways to mitigate damage to the leader craft would be necessary.

The way I see it, the CIS would only be as good as their general.  There was always a named general, or tactical droid, controlling the forces.   While many tout the adage of fluff being greater than gameplay, that is not necessarily true.   The two are equal at best.   Otherwise, FFG wouldn't have opted (and paid money) to use the Star Wars name.

The CIS having an overarching mechanic is a way to introduce faction identity to the game more so than what exists.

As noted above, the CIS forces needed a general to control them.   Each of its individual troops was pretty basic, and game wise, would be very cheap.    On par to the cost of a Academy TIE or even cheaper.  If the vulture droid basic model only had PS1, but the general had say a pilot skill of 9, and by fielding said general you up every Vulture droid to that pilot skill, you make them all dangerous.   

Now yes, the general is vulnerable, but by making it (the CIS) different, it could make people want to play that faction. You might not like it, but others would.   

This design factors in that there are very few named pilots, but a number of named generals.  

Is my idea perfect?  No, of course not, it was something I came up with on the fly.  But, with refinement could bring some uniquness to the faction.

Addendum: perhaps rather than a blanket pilot skill upgrade to all ships, give a general several tokens, to assign to an allied ship during the planning phase, and these tokens denote the pilot skill for that round.   If there are several tokens that show the default ps as well, the opponent has to guess which will be going first or last.   

 

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3 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

That is a danger, so the play style would have to reflect that.   

To counter the leader being vulnerable, developing various ways to mitigate damage to the leader craft would be necessary.

The way I see it, the CIS would only be as good as their general.  There was always a named general, or tactical droid, controlling the forces.   While many tout the adage of fluff being greater than gameplay, that is not necessarily true.   The two are equal at best.   Otherwise, FFG wouldn't have opted (and paid money) to use the Star Wars name.

The CIS having an overarching mechanic is a way to introduce faction identity to the game more so than what exists.

As noted above, the CIS forces needed a general to control them.   Each of its individual troops was pretty basic, and game wise, would be very cheap.    On par to the cost of a Academy TIE or even cheaper.  If the vulture droid basic model only had PS1, but the general had say a pilot skill of 9, and by fielding said general you up every Vulture droid to that pilot skill, you make them all dangerous.   

Now yes, the general is vulnerable, but by making it (the CIS) different, it could make people want to play that faction. You might not like it, but others would.   

This design factors in that there are very few named pilots, but a number of named generals.  

Is my idea perfect?  No, of course not, it was something I came up with on the fly.  But, with refinement could bring some uniquness to the faction.

Addendum: perhaps rather than a blanket pilot skill upgrade to all ships, give a general several tokens, to assign to an allied ship during the planning phase, and these tokens denote the pilot skill for that round.   If there are several tokens that show the default ps as well, the opponent has to guess which will be going first or last.   

Well, fine, then be like that and bring up valid points against my argument... 

Now git off my lawn with your pesky droids and clones!

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17 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

As an exercise, name 10 unique pilots for the CIS faction that are not Bounty Hunters. No Wookieepedia.

General Grievous
Asajj Ventress
Darth Maul (+Savage Oppress)
Count Dooku
Durge
Poggle

Then, for all the Droid Fighters, their uniques would be things like "Droid Trifighter Command Unit" or the like, which is far more fitting even than "Red Ace" or "Omega Leader" or "Crimson Specialist."

Once you allow the bounty hunter characters that were under the full employ of the CIS as mercenaries, you get Jango Fett, Cad Bane, Zam Wessel, Aurra Sing, Gha Nackt, and so many others...


 

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I'm no fan of the Prequel Films, though I respect how much great content they added to the Star Wars mythos.  I think they could have done that with Jar-Jar Binks, Droid Head-Swaps, Camel Farts, and an hour of pod-racing... but I digress.


For what it's worth, at this point I'd much rather see FFG add new factions (Separatists / Republic) rather than keep scraping the barrel for new ships to shoehorn into the Empire and the Rebellion.  And I think it's pretty clear the New Trilogy era is sort of creatively bankrupt when it comes to giving us sufficient new ship content.  Cross-era battles do not bother me, since they're no more weird than a Rebel vs Rebel mirror match with Poe in both squads.  Besides, we already have cross-era battles possible with now with First Order and Resistance stuff being on tables with Imperials and Scum. 

Aesthetically, and from a game-play perspective, I'd much rather see the amazing Clone War era ships put into the game than get some godforsaken TIE-WhatsIt or something.  As for novel mechanics, the Separatists have droids with linked droid brains, so there's gotta be some interesting mechanics that could be explored there.  The Republic is an awful lot like the Rebellion (shielded jousters, astromechs, crew slots) but maybe something could be explored with Jedi pilots to make it feel more unique?

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FFG does seem to be listening to some of the feedback and giving players what they want (a turret for imps, gunboat, making ordinance strong), so I'd bet we're going to see more Clone Wars era ships, probably slowly released as one-offs in waves.  They do have to keep up with the movie releases.  That said, here's what pops into my heads as the ships I'd most want to buy:

1. Jedi Starfighter with detachable hyperdrive (and game mechanic to go with this - some super movement while it's attached, but can't attack until detached)

2. N1 Naboo Starfighter

3. Vulture Droid (there's a lot of potential to do something new here, maybe making it the cheapest ship ever, maybe selling in a two pack, maybe having them operate in swarms)

4. Torrent Starfighter

5. Asaj's (Ginivex) Starfighter

I tend to favor new ships we haven't seen at all yet, as opposed to another ARC-170 or CW era Y-wing.  I'll think we'll get a V-wing at some point because a lot of people mention that ship.  If I had to pick what might sell the best and fit the current factions for a wave (and what might actually see the light of shelves), I might go with:

N1 Naboo  (Rebel)

V-Wing (Imperial)

Vulture Droid (Scum)

Edited by dadocollin

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My idea for droids is that you'd have one pilot card per expansion representing the basic level of programming for a given droid (so let's say Vulture has PS2 and Tri-fighter PS4), and then Programming upgrade slot, with cards that can be used to modify PS or do other things.

For example this would be the base (imagine the Tech slot is a Programming slot):

BSX5B4S.jpg7EF7C85.jpg

And then you could modify your PS:
EwvmTlP.jpgd8pYs18.jpgYqwBGs6.jpg

Or choose to stay at low PS in exchange for something resembling pilot abilities:

fDw95QC.jpg5a1O0KT.jpg

More advanced droids like Tri-fighters could have two Programming slots.

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