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Kieransi

The big Clone Wars thread.

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7 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

So let's move on to some ideas. Which ships do you think would be nice to have if this game expanded to include Clone Wars? The top 2 on my list would have to be the ARC-170 and the V-19 Torrent. 

Second vote for V-19 Torrent. It didn't even make it into Starship Battles by Wizards of the Coast, which was a travesty.

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11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Or, probably more likely because they were made in reverse order and separated by 30 years.

No, it's definitely just George Lucas.  There were a bajillion opportunities for the prequels and the OT to have some feeling of continuity.  Lucas just didn't take any of those opportunities.


Instead, he gave us a story where Darth Vader built C-3PO and Chewbacca (the guy who was completely unimpressed with Obi Wan Kenobi) was old war buddies with Yoda.

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32 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

So let's move on to some ideas. Which ships do you think would be nice to have if this game expanded to include Clone Wars? The top 2 on my list would have to be the ARC-170 and the V-19 Torrent. 

Republic:

Old Y-wing

ARC 170

N1 Naboo

Old Clone Z-95

Aethersprite

V-wing

V-19 Torrent

Eta class shuttle

T-6 shuttle

CiS:

Vulture droid fighter

Droid Tri fighter

Geonosian fighter

Bulballab 22

Firespray 31 (Jango)

Sheathipede shuttle

Edited by Darth Meanie

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3 minutes ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

No, it's definitely just George Lucas.  There were a bajillion opportunities for the prequels and the OT to have some feeling of continuity.  Lucas just didn't take any of those opportunities.


Instead, he gave us a story where Darth Vader built C-3PO and Chewbacca (the guy who was completely unimpressed with Obi Wan Kenobi) was old war buddies with Yoda.

ETA-2 -> TIE Fighter is a fantastic example of creating the sense of continiuty while remaining original.

But some people prefer lazy copycats like in the sequels.

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9 minutes ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

No, it's definitely just George Lucas.  There were a bajillion opportunities for the prequels and the OT to have some feeling of continuity.  Lucas just didn't take any of those opportunities.


Instead, he gave us a story where Darth Vader built C-3PO and Chewbacca (the guy who was completely unimpressed with Obi Wan Kenobi) was old war buddies with Yoda.

So, if you take my comment in the context of what I was responding to:

29 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Remember the time between the clone wars and the original trilogy is extremely small in terms of military hardware life cycles. The fact there was crazy different ships between the clone wars and the OT is more to due with how bad a writer Lucas was then anything else. Their should be countless numbers of clone wars era ships flying around. the rebels only having new tech (cutting edge in the form of the x-wing) is really quite crazy they should have tons of ARC's and what not in their fleet. at least the y-wing was featured in the clone wars era to help soften the mental disconnect.

There are no Clone Wars ships in the OT because the OT was made first, and 30 years before the Prequels.

Regardless of Lucas's skills as a storyteller, CW ships are not in the OT because it can't happen without a CGI rewrite to put ARC-170s and BTL-B Y-Wings into the Trench Run scene.

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2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Republic:

Old Y-wing

ARC 170

N1 Naboo

Old Clone Z-95

Aethersprite

V-wing

V-19 Torrent

Eta class shuttle

T-6 shuttle

CiS:

Vulture droid fighter

Droid Tri fighter

Geonosian fighter

Bulballab 22

Firespray 31 (Jango)

Sheathipede shuttle

Also LAAT/i, Patrol Gunship and Theta-class shuttle, plus some more obscure Legends stuff, like H-60 Tempest, Cloackshape fighter, NTB-630 Naval Bomber, Kappa-class shuttle, Tri-Mark VII Interceptor etc.

CIS has Hyena bombers,  HMP gunship, Ginivex-class (Asajj ship), Mankvim-814, Porax-38 (Magna Guard fighter), Umbaran fighter, Punworcca 116 (Dooku's solar sailor), G9 Rigger and countless contraptions from Legends.

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2 minutes ago, eMeM said:

ETA-2 -> TIE Fighter is a fantastic example of creating the sense of continiuty while remaining original.

But some people prefer lazy copycats like in the sequels.

Or a low bar for "originality."  I mean, yeah, TFA is lazy AF by negative-flipping the color scheme.  But honestly, the sequel trilogy is only a slight step up from the prequels, so you might as well suggest gingivitis is better than early-stage squamous cell carcinoma. 

But really, plopping curved "wings" and a TIE Fighter cockpit on something isn't terribly original.  The aesthetic of the prequels still remains entirely different.  Everything is sleeker and shinier and... well, just completely out of an entirely different design philosophy.  Ships in the OT were blocky and dull and well-used.  Everything in the prequels is the exact opposite.  And the discrepancy isn't even explainable, as the ships in the prequels are not  the same ships, or even close relatives, but brand new.  There's no continuity between the technology at all.  I mean, even something that should last, such as a star destroyer, is completely replaced in less than 20 years by a galaxy-spanning Empire.  To the point where the Republic's fancy new cruisers are just... completely gone 18 years later.  No wonder the Empire had to mass-produce cheap short-range TIE Fighters, lol.  It spent all that time manufacturing entire fleets of star destroyers for... reasons, while scrapping all of the Republic's old capital ships for... reasons.  

 

Or, the prequels are just completely lack any real continuity, instead opting for a strange, shiny set of ships that kinda look like things you might have seen in the original trilogy.

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Clone War content?  Yes, please!  I love the OT, but the Clone Wars-era is by far my favorite era of SW.  Fans of the Dark Horse Republic series likely realize where I got my username from.  I would love to see more Clone Wars vessels in the game, be they in Imperial, Rebel, or Scum service, or more properly introduced with their own factions.  ****, I'm already trying to think up a Clone Wars-themed list with the ARC, Z-95, and Y-Wing.

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3 minutes ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

Or a low bar for "originality."  I mean, yeah, TFA is lazy AF by negative-flipping the color scheme.  But honestly, the sequel trilogy is only a slight step up from the prequels, so you might as well suggest gingivitis is better than early-stage squamous cell carcinoma. 

But really, plopping curved "wings" and a TIE Fighter cockpit on something isn't terribly original.  The aesthetic of the prequels still remains entirely different.  Everything is sleeker and shinier and... well, just completely out of an entirely different design philosophy.  Ships in the OT were blocky and dull and well-used.  Everything in the prequels is the exact opposite.  And the discrepancy isn't even explainable, as the ships in the prequels are not  the same ships, or even close relatives, but brand new.  There's no continuity between the technology at all.  I mean, even something that should last, such as a star destroyer, is completely replaced in less than 20 years by a galaxy-spanning Empire.  To the point where the Republic's fancy new cruisers are just... completely gone 18 years later.  No wonder the Empire had to mass-produce cheap short-range TIE Fighters, lol.  It spent all that time manufacturing entire fleets of star destroyers for... reasons, while scrapping all of the Republic's old capital ships for... reasons.  

 

Or, the prequels are just completely lack any real continuity, instead opting for a strange, shiny set of ships that kinda look like things you might have seen in the original trilogy.

Rebel aesthetics != Star Wars aesthetics. Imperial fighters were never blocky or well used. The empire as a whole is all about being shiny and clean.

You only ever see a small portion of the Imperial fleet. It's not a suprise that the ships directly under Vader, Tarkin or the Emperor are the most advanced ones.

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26 minutes ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

Or a low bar for "originality."  I mean, yeah, TFA is lazy AF by negative-flipping the color scheme.  But honestly, the sequel trilogy is only a slight step up from the prequels, so you might as well suggest gingivitis is better than early-stage squamous cell carcinoma. 

That isn't even a suggestion.

I'd say that gingivitis is QUANTIFIABLY BETTER than early SCC.

Unless of course you think that hemi-mandibulectomy + radiation vs. brushing + dental floss are equal modes of therapy.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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3 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

As an exercise, name 10 unique pilots for the CIS faction that are not Bounty Hunters. No Wookieepedia.

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

-Droid

Woah, what an exercise! My fingers are almost halfway sore from pressing Ctrl+V.

Edited by Celestial Lizards

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37 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, if you take my comment in the context of what I was responding to:

There are no Clone Wars ships in the OT because the OT was made first, and 30 years before the Prequels.

Regardless of Lucas's skills as a storyteller, CW ships are not in the OT because it can't happen without a CGI rewrite to put ARC-170s and BTL-B Y-Wings into the Trench Run scene.

I dont know how to explain this to you.....

When he wrote the clone wars he could have done so to make it appear like the timeline made sense but he chose to invent brand new everything that had 0 connection to his previous work. Most people who make prequels to things take into account the future that is already written.

 

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2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

TL;DR: Do it. Strike me down with all of your Clone Wars ships and your journey to a complete Star Wars game will be complete. 

Yeah, I know there's probably other threads discussing stuff like this. But I think all of them had one mistake in common: they talked about the prequels. Episodes I, II, and III, although fine movies in my opinion, are often considered the absolute worst Star Wars movies ever. I think FFG shares this opinion. 

So I want to create a central place where we can talk about something that most of us Star Wars fans actually like: Clone Wars! Whether it's the movie, the show, the LEGO sets, the REAL Battlefront II, Ahsoka, clones, lightsaber combat, starship combat, battlecruiser combat, political intrigue, fun scum and villainy, or something else, most Star Wars fans have a reason to like Clone Wars. 

I think that it's a crying shame that Clone Wars has been mostly snubbed by this game for so long. The game has already had the "original trilogy, thematic timeline, no weird time/space wormholes" thing thrown out the window with the inclusion of the sequels trilogy. If Kylo and Vader can fly together, why can't Anakin and Vader fight each other? The Republic and the CIS would be great factions to have, and Scum would of course still be contentedly scumming around in all their scumminess. The first wave could easily have a "Most Wanted"-style pack with tons of cards for co-opting older ships into the new waves. For example, Y-Wing, ARC-170, and Z-95 Headhunter for the Republic, and the Firespray (hello, Firespray fix!), YV-666, and maybe IG-2000 for the CIS. 

And if you're saying this won't fit the game, you're a little too late. We already have Ventress and Cad Bane frequently sitting on top tables in tournaments, when both characters died before the Empire even started.

So, what do you all say? Can we agree Clone Wars is awesome? Aren't there tons of characters we could use from that timeline? And custom card creators: repost 'em here! Let's talk! I want to see all those custom Naboo Fighters, Oddball ARC-170s, Jedi Starfighters, and more! 

Clone Wars era ships are the best ships. Xwing, Jedi star fighters, Eta2s, Arcs, CIS

I don't want this refitted singleton Rebel refit crap either I want REAL Republic vs CIS. Along with Armada Venators, Lucrehulks, and Providences and Acclamators. All canon

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12 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I dont know how to explain this to you.....

When he wrote the clone wars he could have done so to make it appear like the timeline made sense but he chose to invent brand new everything that had 0 connection to his previous work. Most people who make prequels to things take into account the future that is already written.

I do know how to explain this to you:

Merchandising. :D

Lucas makes way more money on plastic than acetate.

Besides, I like that the Prequels have a different aesthetic than the OT.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I do know how to explain this to you:

Merchandising. :D

Lucas makes way more money on plastic than acetate.

Besides, I like that the Prequels have a different aesthetic than the OT.

Me too. I love prequel look so much more. Look, we're not in the gritty 80s anymore. 

All that shizz looks dated. 

 

I do dislike how quickly everything changed though. A whole galactic empire, finished within ONE generation? what, 25 years? How old is Luke when DS2 is destroyed and Palpatine is killed? 

That's like Alexander the Great levels of brief. And frankly as a schooled, we never learned much about the impacts of that empire. 

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2 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

As an exercise, name 10 unique pilots for the CIS faction that are not Bounty Hunters. No Wookieepedia.

As an exercise, name 10 unique pilots for the First Order or Resistance faction that are not pivotal characters. No Wookieepedia.

 

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

TL;DR: Do it. Strike me down with all of your Clone Wars ships and your journey to a complete Star Wars game will be complete. 

Yeah, I know there's probably other threads discussing stuff like this. But I think all of them had one mistake in common: they talked about the prequels. Episodes I, II, and III, although fine movies in my opinion, are often considered the absolute worst Star Wars movies ever. I think FFG shares this opinion. 

So I want to create a central place where we can talk about something that most of us Star Wars fans actually like: Clone Wars! Whether it's the movie, the show, the LEGO sets, the REAL Battlefront II, Ahsoka, clones, lightsaber combat, starship combat, battlecruiser combat, political intrigue, fun scum and villainy, or something else, most Star Wars fans have a reason to like Clone Wars. 

I think that it's a crying shame that Clone Wars has been mostly snubbed by this game for so long. The game has already had the "original trilogy, thematic timeline, no weird time/space wormholes" thing thrown out the window with the inclusion of the sequels trilogy. If Kylo and Vader can fly together, why can't Anakin and Vader fight each other? The Republic and the CIS would be great factions to have, and Scum would of course still be contentedly scumming around in all their scumminess. The first wave could easily have a "Most Wanted"-style pack with tons of cards for co-opting older ships into the new waves. For example, Y-Wing, ARC-170, and Z-95 Headhunter for the Republic, and the Firespray (hello, Firespray fix!), YV-666, and maybe IG-2000 for the CIS. 

And if you're saying this won't fit the game, you're a little too late. We already have Ventress and Cad Bane frequently sitting on top tables in tournaments, when both characters died before the Empire even started.

So, what do you all say? Can we agree Clone Wars is awesome? Aren't there tons of characters we could use from that timeline? And custom card creators: repost 'em here! Let's talk! I want to see all those custom Naboo Fighters, Oddball ARC-170s, Jedi Starfighters, and more! 

They don't. It doesn't fit the era for the most part, but Battlefront II 2's DLC gave us a precedent to use Clone Wars stuff in the game to some extent- as a single T-65 and T-70, alongside a mostly gunned-down and heavily converted Raider, took out several ARC-170s, a Nebulon-B, upgunned GR-75s, and V-Wings.  So, mixed signals there.

But we've gotten the ARC-170. You can at some point definitely expect the ETA-2 Actis as a multi faction ship (Ahsoka, Vader, not sure who for scum tbh.).

I will say however that I would very much like a Republic Y-Wing. Probably has a worse dial but you could definitely give it a turret with 2 firepower and have a primary with 3, without upgrades.

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16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I do know how to explain this to you:

Merchandising. :D

Lucas makes way more money on plastic than acetate.

Besides, I like that the Prequels have a different aesthetic than the OT.

Which is actually my #1 problem with the Sequel Trilogy. It completely lacks a unique identity. It just feels like more Rebels and Imperials. To the point that the Resistance and Republic have been dismantled, The First Order is in control, and they are literally Rebels again, our good guys.

It's not great.

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4 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Which is actually my #1 problem with the Sequel Trilogy. It completely lacks a unique identity. It just feels like more Rebels and Imperials. To the point that the Resistance and Republic have been dismantled, The First Order is in control, and they are literally Rebels again, our good guys.

It's not great.

Star Wars Aesthetics by Era:

Prequels:  The Golden Years.

OT:  The War Years.

Postquels:  Super-Size Me.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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32 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Imperial fighters were never blocky or well used.

 

Well, you know, other than all the ones that are.  I said "ships" not just fighters. Star Destroyers, the lambda shuttle, etc.  Even though the fighters are pretty blocky other than being roughly spheroid for the cockpit. Look at a close up of the TIE Fighter models and compare it to a closeup of the Eta fighter. They look nothing alike in terms of design aesthetic. Everything on the Eta is smooth, polished.  Everything on the TIE Fighter is covered in small panels, exposed access ports, bizarre little ribbing, etc.  There could quite well be literally nothing in the prequels that looks remotely like the X-Wing or the A-Wing etc.  In 18 years, the universe went to this from this.  Flimsy arguments about different manufacturers aside, there's absolutely no continuity there.  The ARC 170 model looks nothing like an X-Wing other than having flappy winglets, for example.  

Basically, in 18 years, all the slick external paneling in the universe suddenly got lost, lol.  Guess the naked sportbike craze hit the galaxy or something.

 

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

That isn't even a suggestion.

I'd say that gingivitis is QUANTIFIABLY BETTER than early SCC.

 

I think you may have missed the point, lol.

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22 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Which is actually my #1 problem with the Sequel Trilogy. It completely lacks a unique identity. It just feels like more Rebels and Imperials. To the point that the Resistance and Republic have been dismantled, The First Order is in control, and they are literally Rebels again, our good guys.

It's not great.

It's hard to please everyone is the take home. I disagree with you but understand where you are coming from. Every has different taste.

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