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Ever since I got the Crow Hags, I've pretty much fallen in love with them, and I've been thinking.  Would it be possible for a crow hag to be good, and be a hero?  If she can, what about the other "evil" races such as goblins and deep elves?  Maybe FFG would do well with a new hero expansion which adds a hero crow hag, a hero deep elf, a hero goblin and a hero dragon hybrid, while the monsters are humans like corrupted engineers and such.  What do you all think?

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I've been wanting to have the switched loyalty option myself- like many people (some have even said so on the forums) I'm a dragon fan and want some 'good' dragons in my stories, I'll have to do this for the plans I have for my RPG adventure for Descent.


As a starting point referencing characters such as Serena and Raythen who can be allies or enemies or neutrals (I think, not focused on those two for a while) could be useful.


Look at the info and items you get for the heroes in the game and the kinds of stats they get, see what might be usable for the crow hags, repeat this for their kit as enemies to give you inspiration, then name them, give them a bit of a backstory that fits the lore, and create them a 'hero pack' as it were: they'd need things such as their hero sheet (stats), hero archetype (for limiting choice of classes) and if you were giving them anything special in terms of their role in the game as some characters have such as a familiar you'd need rules (if unique) and may need tokens or whatever for that being in the game. You could even make their 'kit' just for them but this would need more playtesting.


Then playtest them in various Descent campaigns and see what others think too. Same process for switching sides of any other character. Obviously in reverse if you want to use a hero for an enemy.


For my RPG version it will be easier to convert a character or make their loyalty flexible- it just needs two sets of info (I wonder if this might be useful to do sometimes anyway even if a loyalty switch isn't in your storyline- it might be if the players of an RPG try to make it happen!)


I think it's mandatory that I put a crow hag among the heroes available from the pool for my campaigns now on your behalf! What would you call them? I've always wondered about being inspired by Macbeth's witches as they like battlefields too :) : I think they'd fit being flexible motivation wise, they could be healing on the battlefield not just enjoying the spills for example, good or bad or in-between! For the RPG there will probably be a pool of pre-cooked hero wise but players can create their own or base them on a pre-cooked. The pre-cooks being so the Descent heroes are in there along with some things that *might change sides*


RPG version is here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/268577-fantasy-descent-terrinoth-journeys-in-genesys/


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Anything in multiples is good for this use as you can use different paint styles for different allegiances so you've got identifiers if you need them (including keeping one as a master for enemies)


- How would the average townie react to seeing a Crow Hag enter town though ?

I have a feeling that in Terrinoth and perhaps even more so other parts of Mennara the unusual is commonplace so unless it's very unusual I think there wouldn't be much reaction as it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary!


And @RedMageStatscowski - any thoughts on the crow hags as heroes- if you share them I'll start looking into building them as a choice for Genesys/Descent- I might set them up as NPC's that player choices will determine what happens, I like the idea (from seeing the flyer for a certain witchy musical) that one becomes evil, one good depending on player routes through the game (route b would switch the witches!), the third trying to get them on the same side somehow and perhaps a bit unpredictable in this respect.


I've a piece from another game that would make a good Hecate so I may create a Hecate NPC too. I've seen sources say Hecate is the only named witch but I think this is sort of incorrect- although they aren't named in the characters list of the play they do introduce themselves (sort of) as Grey Malkin, Paddock and Anon- the first two being a cat (maybe greyish blue) and toad/frog, so possibly their familiars / evil spirit entities attending them, but they are referenced as if an introduction, although anon is soon (said to a familiar) and these seem to be mainly addressing familiars - seems to me that unnmamed witches suggests a connection so I like the idea of using these names for three witches, especially as Anon fits a mysterious more unknown one. Third witch familiar is later named as Harpier though. Similar to harpie, some think an owl. In order here are referenced a brinded (streaked) cat, hedgehog and Harpier (capital H) so i wonder if these are the correct familiars in species terms, or it's accidentaly or intentionally (suggesting transience)  mismatched it to the earlier bit it echoes? -ock can be a small thing, paddock IS fog/toad although possibly just the 'pad' bit which can be path or sole of the foot related origin-wise, what I'm trying to figure out is the two instances of the witches referencing their familiars, perhaps their true spirits/identities, mismatching- the cat and anon/Harpier potentially link but frog or toad/ hedgehog don't, seems odd to me (that's what happens when you've studied literature!)

I also have the idea I've come up with that the witches redistribute Waiqar's mists with the thurible on their chain weapons - if heroes this should come with risks - but it gives them the dangerous combo of being able to conceal an attack from the other end of those weapons.
" The word "thurible" comes from the Old French thurible, which in turn is derived from the Latin term thuribulum. The Latin thuribulum is further formed from the root thus, meaning incense. Thus is an alteration of the Greek word θύος (thuos), which is derived from θύειν (thuein) "to sacrifice".[1] " Wikipedia

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I've started thinking about this for Genesys- the Terrinoth sourcebook for Genesys is 'on the boat' so hopefully available in about a month's time so I'll probably not form anything final til then (just in case the monsters get an entry anyway!)

As far as Descent goes I'd say the most suited classes are limited so perhaps the crow hag should be restricted to Mage - Hexer (Conjurer kind of works but perhaps not so well)



"even the most objectionable forms of magic can be used in the name of good." Mage-Hexer combo seems perfect for a good crow hag (basically a good witch)

WEAPON (my idea, I like this idea, if you look closely at their weapon it fits nicely and see my post above)
Name: Thurible mace flail
Trait: Magic
Hmm, is a mace ranged as you'd swing it at someone, looking flail up on Wikipedia and with my concept of it it may need special rules as there are different ways the crow hag's version could be used, including close contact, may have been an old discussion on ranged vs melee for weapons saying offering a choice either/or (choice of ranged or melee) could be overpowered- not sure on this, but sometimes to me it's more realistic for certain weapons.
Clearly two handed for 'Equip' when in use though. And possibly quite an encumbrance for Genesys carry-weight purposes.
Refer to 'shop item card' p 11 Descent rules. I'd say crow hag hero gets this starting card equivalent  instead of http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Staff_of_the_Grave as they have this rather than a staff on them:


Crow hag hero has unique skill as per my idea for weapon: Mists of Waiqar - if the weapon detailed is equipped then the hero crow hag can if they wish choose to use its darkest powers and the thurible end is redistributing Waiqar's mists- there should be some risk to this though as it is clearly a case of something objectionable being used (or attempting to be used) for good, not quite sure how to implement this yet and what benefit/risk I'd give it but the mists would have potential concealment, and the mists have other potential powers (thus this idea will be more adaptable to the RPG): http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Mists_of_Bilehall    - as witches the crow hags should be immune but it should be harmful to other heroes thus they'd take a hit if too close, or if messing with such dangerous matter goes wrong! Just had to use this idea when it came to me looking at the crow hags' chained weapon (and as with dragons it irks me that witches are so frequently evil characters so for both entities I'm thinking some should be good, others can still be bad, but not all of them!)


IF player goes for adding Steelcaster (the only hybrid I think) or another acceptable hybrid if there are any then they should maybe surrender one of its skills if they wish to have the 'Mists of Waiqar' skill, but perhaps they won't make such a sacrifice out of fear that using this ability they have could be a little too close to the lesser side of their nature! If it works in this choice system and I go with that then once the choice is made they either can't change it or can only do so at set points.


The enemy crow hag abilities may help with the ability/ heroic feat, so perhaps making these similar?, for the hero sheet (page 7)




None of this is final just initial brainstorming on the crow hags while I think about the ideas. http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Crow_Hag

Edited by Martinslair
added weapon trait

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Since monsters don't heal that much: Maybe make the ability about damage instead.

Ability: Each time a monster within 5 spaces suffers damage, it suffers an additional damage.

Feat: Action - Roll a blue die for each monster in line of sight, each time the result is not an X, the monster receives a condition of your choice.
Feat: Action - For each monster in line of sight, perform a willpower/knowledge test, if you pass the monster receives a condition of your choice.


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Just read this in the Terrinoth sourcebook description: " but the book even gives sub-classes that allow you to become a Deep Elf...."


My crow hag ideas are probably a bit more expansive than yours with having the campaign I'm working on in mind.


I'll probably keep my Macbeth-inspired names (with a twist) for the campaign but I like the idea of having Sindaea playable too - if you were writing a story for her being hero rather than enemy how would you rework the original Sindaea storyline?

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I was thinking in terms of how you might develop her story going forward if she was a potential ally the heroes met - as if you've got any ideas on this I may incorporate them into my quest, so is there anything you'd like to happen for/with Sindaea as she features in my quest that you'd like me to include for her, imagine your party of heroes has met her and she's a potential ally rather than an enemy- how's Sindaea in that context for you? How would you like her to meet the heroes and so on?

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Not played RTL yet but just noticed it can have some enemies switched to be friends: "you may find yourself fighting alongside deep elves to rescue their hellhound from waves of kobolds."

A really awesome update for Descent would be to have such changes of side possible in the game (some campaigns have already played with the idea a bit)



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