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On 3/24/2018 at 4:47 PM, tenchi2a said:

Now I'm going to nip this stranded argument in the bud before it even comes up.

I am not against alternate-canon, but the new canon needs to make sense.

If the PCs are going to change the canon it needs to be sensible to the story.

I have seen to may GM/DM/ST modify the threats down to the level of the PCs to ignore it.

By doing this the threats are diminished to a point where you start wondering why they where even threats at all.

If a group of 4-6 rank 3 PCs can handle it how was this ever a threat to the armies of the Great Clans.

You can say that this was only a minor threat, but by doing that you have relegated the adventure to the level of side-quest.

As stated above, in a time of peace this would be a major accomplishment, but in a time of war its just a minor side-quest.

Again alternate-canon needs to make sense.

Actually no. It needs to make sense to it's players. Everyone else can go and do indecent things with their anuses with their katana sheath... If my players like it, as GM I did my job. It doesn't matter if it's something as stupid as who stirs the Emperor's Tea, or something as major as Yoritomo kills the other thunders and names himself Emperor of Rokugan... the game is the game is the game. It's players and GMs that make it not just a book or pdf, which is why GM Discression is a thing. 

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14 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

Actually no. It needs to make sense to it's players. Everyone else can go and do indecent things with their anuses with their katana sheath... If my players like it, as GM I did my job. It doesn't matter if it's something as stupid as who stirs the Emperor's Tea, or something as major as Yoritomo kills the other thunders and names himself Emperor of Rokugan... the game is the game is the game. It's players and GMs that make it not just a book or pdf, which is why GM Discression is a thing. 

Then why Have canon at all.

In your description of how your canon works the GM and the players create the entire story themselves.

That is fine, then you have no use for the canon of the game, outside the history that came before the characters.

Then you should have no problem with what others want from the canon. 

If my players and I care about who stirs the Emperor's Tea, or something as major as Yoritomo kills the other thunders and names himself Emperor of Rokugan then you shouldn't care as its what my players want.

But from the way you wrote this is come across as "if my players want this then everyone has to want this". So in a sense you are going against your own argument.

Edited by tenchi2a

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45 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

Still you ignore my point even as it sinks your ship, how sad.

Right now, they're still in the groundwork phase. Look at 40k's RPG. It got set long before the Game's official Canon even started because they had the groundwork from the tabletop. FFG does not have that. They have a turd (**** AEG Kotei fan spanks) that got handed to them along with the words "There's a diamond in there somewhere. Find it and polish it." when they bought the licences. Who's to say that, when the RPG comes out and background changes are finalized, FFG might not do the same thing. We saw a test, a TEST, of a system. We don't know when or where they may drop the RPG's starting point. As far as we may know, the RPG's canon may start anywhere between the time the Kami fell to the world and the moment the big major first event pops off. They might go with one of the Eras/timeframes that never got touched with a book or, at most, beyond 'What if' speculation from Imperial Histories 2. When you assume, you make an *** out of you and me. Just wait to see like the rest of us, and if they screw it up you'll have the energy and credibility to do the flame war equivalent of lighting a torch, taking to the streets, and starting a mass riot with looting and pillaging instead of blowing through it all by raving like a conspiracy theorist.

I'm not looking to start a flame war equivalent of lighting a torch. 

And to the your statement about the story, It is clear you hate the AEG L5R story so I have to ask why you where here in the first place. 

I'll be the first to admit that there are better games out there for playing in an Oriental setting. 

So why would you put yourself thru playing L5R if you hate the setting?

If your only objective it to make L5R something completely new, And you have no love or attachment to the story.

Then more power to you as there is no reason for us to argue, as We are coming from to different places that will never meet.

I am coming at this from a place where despite its faults I still liked the old canon.

That said, for the most part outside of some major customs being off, and a lack of knowledge of how ballistic trajectories work most of the story has been fine so far.

I dare say that my biggest problem is that they haven't make big enough changes in some areas to fill-out the story.

I could be miss reading this, but you seem to be coming from a view that all that came before was crap and it should roast in a fire. 

The problem I am having with this is how can you have played for 19 year and hate the story?

I could not see myself playing a game that I hate the story for 19 year.

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No. My words were a nice way of saying "If my players have fun with my adventure, what do I give two **** if the collective yous, as outside persons looking in, are screaming from outside the proverbial window 'that's not what happened! What are you doing to L5R canon?' And that the outsider needs to stfu and sit down." Nothing will make sense to everyone. ****, there's people who are convinced that the Sky is purple. We are not the Borg from Star Trek. We do not share one enforced prospective. We are a species of individuals, with individual world views. What works for my group and my campaign might not work for you and yours. It does not mean we have to come to a flame war equivalent of a fist fight over what each other do. It means we have to respect the fact that we are both GMs with different views and groups. What works for me and mine might not work for you and yours. So quit trying to drop such flimsy troll bait. It does nothing but hurt your cause, especially against someone intelligent. Right now, your credibility is resting on the ocean floor next to the Titanic thanks to going up against people like me... the master bai...

 

Whoops, almost master baited myself.

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2 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

No. My words were a nice way of saying "If my players have fun with my adventure, what do I give two **** if the collective yous, as outside persons looking in, are screaming from outside the proverbial window 'that's not what happened! What are you doing to L5R canon?' And that the outsider needs to stfu and sit down." Nothing will make sense to everyone. ****, there's people who are convinced that the Sky is purple. We are not the Borg from Star Trek. We do not share one enforced prospective. We are a species of individuals, with individual world views. What works for my group and my campaign might not work for you and yours. It does not mean we have to come to a flame war equivalent of a fist fight over what each other do. It means we have to respect the fact that we are both GMs with different views and groups. What works for me and mine might not work for you and yours. So quit trying to drop such flimsy troll bait. It does nothing but hurt your cause, especially against someone intelligent. Right now, your credibility is resting on the ocean floor next to the Titanic thanks to going up against people like me... the master bai...

 

Whoops, almost master baited myself.

Well If all you can do is insult, you have already shown your character.

And I do agree with the highlighted parts of you comment.

To bad you had to end it on a insult to show your immaturity. 

Have fun thinking the world is attacking you.

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Also, no, I don't hate the story. I look at it and willingly admit it was flawed in areas (thanks to Kotei fanspank, rushed decisions, and AEG not thinking about placing limits on what choices to offer during the tournaments). Which is something a fan does. Like Star Trek. I enjoyed the experience of the TOS, TMP, TNG/DS9/Voyager era, yet still analyze it and call the stupidity where I see it... That's what a fan does. Like when I call Enterprise or Discovery on their dumb decisions. I also gave the JJ Abrams Treks a shot. (I didn't like the feel of them, but don't call those who do stupid for it.)

 

A Fanatic, on the other hand, tries to force everyone to take their very narrow view, even when it's the viewpoint of an ostrich that's put his head in the sand like yours is. 

 

My objective is to try to help polish the diamond that is L5R's potential so that it might have a chance of becoming a pseudo-east asian D&D as far as popularity goes. And you are making rash decisions based on conjecture about something that's still pretty skeletal. It's like if I was building a skyscraper and you walk up while the outer walls are still just the framework and ***** about the landscaping designs used in the pitch art by the Architect during the bidding process. All we know for sure is it's 1123 in the LCG's Canon, the Great Clans are still Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, and Unicorn; there's still a form of Mantis Minor Clan; there was a Tsunami around 1120; and these are the characters/groups that have been introduced plus these events have happened to them. As far as we know, the Boar and Snake might still be Minor Clans, the Fox Clan might be kitsunemimis (litteral semi-furry fox people), the Tortoise might have an archepelago they use for foreign trading, and the Sparrow might have died out first generation due to starvation. Don't judge until the product is out or at least a timeline and list of Minor Clans is finished.

 

If new Canon feels like nothing but Waifus, yuri for the sake of yuri, and fanspank once finished, i'll personally be the first to tear it to shreds as a critic and use the salvagable remnants to create my own L5R experience with my own people. However, if it turns out to be a quality product and shows us what L5R can be, i'm going to be able to sing it's praises from the rooftops long before you finish making your apologies to all of the project's supporters.

Edited by Daigotsu Naraku

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15 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

Also, no, I don't hate the story. I look at it and willingly admit it was flawed in areas (thanks to Kotei fanspank, rushed decisions, and AEG not thinking about placing limits on what choices to offer during the tournaments). Which is something a fan does. Like Star Trek. I enjoyed the experience of the TOS, TMP, TNG/DS9/Voyager era, yet still analyze it and call the stupidity where I see it... That's what a fan does. Like when I call Enterprise or Discovery on their dumb decisions. I also gave the JJ Abrams Treks a shot. (I didn't like the feel of them, but don't call those who do stupid for it.)

I was just say that from your comments about the line it came across that way.

If that is not true then my apologies. 

But you have to admit "They have a turd (**** AEG Kotei fan spanks) that got handed to them along with the words "There's a diamond in there somewhere. Find it and polish it." comes across as a little more then its flawed, which I do agree with.

15 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

A Fanatic, on the other hand, tries to force everyone to take their very narrow view, even when it's the viewpoint of an ostrich that's put his head in the sand like yours is. 

How do you get that I am a fanatic, as I have already said that there are faults in the original story?

That I want to see more changes in the new story, and that I don't think the changes have gone far enough.

And since this argument started about the fact that I don't like setting my games during war times, and my opinions on that I don't see how this has anything to do with my opinion? 

Or the argument that was at hand.

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As for the LCG, since I don't play any card games anymore I will not be playing it. That said It looks cool and I have run in a demo of it and it played well. I just don't play CCG or LCG.

As for the RPG, as I have said before I have already given up on it being something my player or I will be playing.

That said I am here to follow the story-line and see how it goes.

Any comments I make about RPGs are directed to playing the new timeline in 4th edition.

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It's because you get offended and defensive, and seem to be arguing/trollbaiting every time that you post something. Plus, thanks to bad decisions, by 4e the canon was so full of changes, conflictions, etc that I got into an argument one time with another GM about who would pour the Emperor's tea for him.

 

Look at my first post that we clashed over. It literally said "We don't know when in the timeline or where we are getting dropped at on the map beyond 'Somewhere in Rokugan' until the final product is dropped on us" yet you kept harping like you're a member of the creative staff that knows what is happening and with enough power to fight it but needing fan backing to win the argument when you know nothing more than us. Look at AEG: 1e card game was post Coup, 1e RPG was pre-coup.  Just because two different games share the same universe/background Canon does not mean their timelines are going to sync up. Go back to Star Trek. A parent company that had game creation rites created both an RPG and a CCG of Trek, but neither was linked by a shared timeframe. For the LCG, the Coup era is the most logical restart point. As far as we know, the RPG might start us any time between year 0 to year 1,000,000 of it's canon. Plus, just because the war might be waging in the background doesn't mean your setting has to be drawn into it. Look at Mimura, a 2e setting book. It can be dropped anywhere, and in almost any timeframe. How do you know that the 1e book isn't going to be a giant sandbox that lets you do the same with it in the new Canon? And who's to say that what the new Canon is building to is going to be a new Clan War? I see possibilities for not only that, but a million other things. The current LCG reads and feels like small border disputes with something brewing in the distance, which the border skirmishes do not need to affect your campaign unless you say "this clan and that clan are going to war.. and the game's city/province is stuck in the middle."

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22 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

It's because you get offended and defensive, and seem to be arguing/trollbaiting every time that you post something. Plus, thanks to bad decisions, by 4e the canon was so full of changes, conflictions, etc that I got into an argument one time with another GM about who would pour the Emperor's tea for him.

I Sorry if you felt that way. 

I have read back through my post , and at least to me did not see any of it as trollbaiting. I also looked back at you post any found most of them to be come off as your opinion is wrong get a life. If that was not what you where implying then sorry.

As for the argument with the other GM, sorry to hear that.

22 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

Look at my first post that we clashed over. It literally said "We don't know when in the timeline or where we are getting dropped at on the map beyond 'Somewhere in Rokugan' until the final product is dropped on us" yet you kept harping like you're a member of the creative staff that knows what is happening and with enough power to fight it but needing fan backing to win the argument when you know nothing more than us. Look at AEG: 1e card game was post Coup, 1e RPG was pre-coup.  Just because two different games share the same universe/background Canon does not mean their timelines are going to sync up. Go back to Star Trek. A parent company that had game creation rites created both an RPG and a CCG of Trek, but neither was linked by a shared timeframe. For the LCG, the Coup era is the most logical restart point. As far as we know, the RPG might start us any time between year 0 to year 1,000,000 of it's canon. Plus, just because the war might be waging in the background doesn't mean your setting has to be drawn into it. Look at Mimura, a 2e setting book. It can be dropped anywhere, and in almost any timeframe. How do you know that the 1e book isn't going to be a giant sandbox that lets you do the same with it in the new Canon? And who's to say that what the new Canon is building to is going to be a new Clan War? I see possibilities for not only that, but a million other things. The current LCG reads and feels like small border disputes with something brewing in the distance, which the border skirmishes do not need to affect your campaign unless you say "this clan and that clan are going to war.. and the game's city/province is stuck in the middle."

I don't disagree that this could be true.

But, as it stands right now FFGs timeline is kind of short on pre-LCG information. Thou the stories do seem to imply that at least most of the ancient history is still canon.

And the 1st edition had about 2 years of CCG game play behind it when it came out.

Add to this the advantage of not having a story to keep or change that they could make-up on the fly.

That said the pre-coup setting was only about a year before the coup. which lines up about right with the where the current conflict is in the FFG story.

As for will there be a major war, I may be reading to much into the current story.

But FFG seems to be dropping hints about a major conflict brewing soon. 

It may not be a all out Clan War or the coup, thou every-time Kachiko shows up it seems to point more and more that way.

But it looks like a conflict that will bring all the clans into one fight or another is coming.

 

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I hope like I don't seem like i'm being an *******, but 1e's adventure that came with the book was 1118, 5 years prior to the Coup. And Kachiko is presenting one route that could be gone down. Another, being offered by Shoju, is slinking back into the darkness. The LCG puts greater emphasis on Political battles than the CCG ever did, which gives me hope that instead of 'automatically everyone's going to start wagging spears at each other' that this 'Clan War' might be far more political in nature. After all, in Rokugan, a word can kill just as fast as a Katana.

 

And the message I was trying to push was all we have is speculation, and it's too early to even hazard a guess as to what could happen, so bothering to worry now is like trying to catch water in a net.

Edited by Daigotsu Naraku

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17 minutes ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

I hope like I don't seem like i'm being an *******, but 1e's adventure that came with the book was 1118, 5 years prior to the Coup. And Kachiko is presenting one route that could be gone down. Another, being offered by Shoju, is slinking back into the darkness. The LCG puts greater emphasis on Political battles than the CCG ever did, which gives me hope that instead of 'automatically everyone's going to start wagging spears at each other' that this 'Clan War' might be far more political in nature. After all, in Rokugan, a word can kill just as fast as a Katana.

Yeah notices my mistake after i posted it and was going to change it after I got back from getting food but you got there first lol.

As for the LCG puts greater emphasis on Political battles than the CCG ever did.

Not sure if I agree with you completely on that.

I will say that it allows traditionally military clans to do politics and traditionally political clans to do military.

I would say it is more of a 55-60% military/ 40-45% political split from the games I have seen and the demo I was in.

Now that's just my experience and there could be different meta in your area.

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I mean that, when I played the CCG, there was just Battle Phase. The LCG (At least on jigoku, haven't gotten to try the LCG IRL as when it got to my area, construction season was over and the lean winter months of unemployment were ahead. Now that we're back to work, and i'm caught up, I can afford a massive splurge next check as my car, back rent, next month's rent, and credit card are paid off.) was split 1 military battle and 1 political battle.

Edited by Daigotsu Naraku

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On 3/24/2018 at 9:47 PM, tenchi2a said:

Now I'm going to nip this stranded argument in the bud before it even comes up.

I am not against alternate-canon, but the new canon needs to make sense.

If the PCs are going to change the canon it needs to be sensible to the story.

I have seen to may GM/DM/ST modify the threats down to the level of the PCs to ignore it.

By doing this the threats are diminished to a point where you start wondering why they where even threats at all.

If a group of 4-6 rank 3 PCs can handle it how was this ever a threat to the armies of the Great Clans.

You can say that this was only a minor threat, but by doing that you have relegated the adventure to the level of side-quest.

As stated above, in a time of peace this would be a major accomplishment, but in a time of war its just a minor side-quest.

Again alternate-canon needs to make sense.

Ever seen the movie U-571? It’s a decent, if historically nowhere near accurate, action flick about an allied submarine crew being sent to recover an encription device from a German sub in trouble so the allied forces could decode intercepted enemy messages. The point here is, no-one in the allied crew was a superhero or general (or admiral, given the naval setting) or anything else that would suggest an IR over 3 in an L5R game. Nonetheless, the outcome of the quest was a gamechanger for the war - there was nothing minor about it. Things get done during wars that are important, that matter to the outcome, by very ordinary people. They don’t always get a lot of recognition (sometimes none at all) and history books don’t always remember them, but that doesn’t make what they did an inconsequential sidequest.

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17 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Ever seen the movie U-571? It’s a decent, if historically nowhere near accurate, action flick about an allied submarine crew being sent to recover an encription device from a German sub in trouble so the allied forces could decode intercepted enemy messages. The point here is, no-one in the allied crew was a superhero or general (or admiral, given the naval setting) or anything else that would suggest an IR over 3 in an L5R game. Nonetheless, the outcome of the quest was a gamechanger for the war - there was nothing minor about it. Things get done during wars that are important, that matter to the outcome, by very ordinary people. They don’t always get a lot of recognition (sometimes none at all) and history books don’t always remember them, but that doesn’t make what they did an inconsequential sidequest.

It was an alright movie if you can get past the fact that they decided to make the Americans the heroes and not the British that actually captured the enigma machine.

That and the fact that if I remember correctly their was little to no issues with getting the box back to England in the real events as the Germans didn't even know the sub was captured.

 I am american and think this was wrong, just like in master and commander when they switched the U.S. ship over to a french ship because then thought that Americans could not handle being the bad guys.

That said I don't disagree with you here if this is a end game adventure for the campaign. I just don't see this as an everyday thing in a campaign.

 

Edited by tenchi2a

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On 1.04.2018 at 2:41 PM, Daigotsu Naraku said:

The LCG puts greater emphasis on Political battles than the CCG ever did,

Calling same type of mechanical Conflict, with same results but just using different base Skill as "greater emphasis"? 

Political (as ability designator) in CCG was mosty connected with Open Control and Family or Personal Honor manipulation. Military was about destroying and moving during battles. Of course various clans/decktypes were able to mix them up in different proportions.

 

Edited by kempy

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19 hours ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

I mean that, when I played the CCG, there was just Battle Phase. The LCG (At least on jigoku, haven't gotten to try the LCG IRL as when it got to my area, construction season was over and the lean winter months of unemployment were ahead. Now that we're back to work, and i'm caught up, I can afford a massive splurge next check as my car, back rent, next month's rent, and credit card are paid off.) was split 1 military battle and 1 political battle.

While that is true the military battle and political battle play out about the same and have very little to differentiate them from each other.

That and in the game I played and the ones I watched a lot of players would skip their political battle so they had standing characters for getting the favor.

As to the CCG not having much in the way of political actions, from this statement I will assume that not many people in your area play Crane honor decks.

That was my back-up deck when i wasn't playing a Phoenix corrupted dragon deck, and during a good game I could be resolving 3-4 political action per turn.

Again depends on what decks you where up against and if you got a bad draw but the CCG could be loaded with political actions when playing against Crane and Scorpion.

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On 3/27/2018 at 11:30 PM, okuma said:

Just to point a fact people seem to be confused about... most of the samurai of a clan never go past rank 1-2, rank 3 characters are already high ranked members and rank 4 and 5 are super rare (and let's not talk about what is higher than that). That the canon.

I’ve heard this, but I don’t know the source. Any chance you can point me in a good direction?

 

Also sorry for the weird formatting. Mobile interface is being difficult. The next paragraph is my reply to the quote that follows it. 

 

I mean, I haven’t played the game for 19 years, but I was never a big fan of the story. I liked the game for its flavor, namely the personalities of the clans and the nature of their relationships. Other games/settings have similar structures, sure, but none of them have hooked me like L5R. 

On 4/1/2018 at 3:36 AM, tenchi2a said:

The problem I am having with this is how can you have played for 19 year and hate the story?

Edited by sidescroller

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1 hour ago, sidescroller said:

I’ve heard this, but I don’t know the source. Any chance you can point me in a good direction?

It's based on side information from NPC from 1-2nd edition, stuff from 2nd edition GM book and GM's survival guide and... inside stuff from playtesting.

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On 3/28/2018 at 7:30 AM, okuma said:

Just to point a fact people seem to be confused about... most of the samurai of a clan never go past rank 1-2, rank 3 characters are already high ranked members and rank 4 and 5 are super rare (and let's not talk about what is higher than that). That the canon. A rank 3 character has achieved a high rank in his clan and likely an important position as an officer, sensei or diplomat. So yeah, sanding rank 3 characters to do diplomatic missions is what happens in the setting. Most NPC aren't higher than rank 3, but people remember those who are higher than those because they are more memorable. People remember Kakita Toshimoko, master sensei when most of the senseis in the Kakita Academy are rank 3-4.

Now, all the discussion is still relevant, just need to move the rank bar a bit lower.

As someone who used to play 1/2/3rd Ed, achieving rank 4 was no easy feat, however you see rank as equal to status in the current game, and it isn't. Someone who is rank 4, in the beta, could be a standard samurai, just a very experienced and well respected one. Someone who is rank 2 could be a Taisa of a Legion with equal measure. Rank in the old game equated to where you stood in the rankings of the Clan/Imperial courts; it's respective to the system, not the lore.

1/2/3 edition, rank 5 was emperor or higher.

5 edition, rank 5 is level 5. Honor/Glory/Status manage where you stand in the empire.

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There was no status in 1th edition, and yes, status and rank are different. But status isn't a well-defined value, and it's easier to compare all editions based on school rank. It doesn't mean there is no exceptions. I know, I got a bunch of characters printed in 4th edition as npc and general PC.

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2 hours ago, okuma said:

There was no status in 1th edition, and yes, status and rank are different. But status isn't a well-defined value, and it's easier to compare all editions based on school rank. It doesn't mean there is no exceptions. I know, I got a bunch of characters printed in 4th edition as npc and general PC.

From the persective of a character in the game, status is a well-defined value and insight rank is meaningless. IR is metagame info only the players and GM have.

If a daimyo NPC is choosing between a status 4 IR 1 and a status 1 IR 4 courtier to lead an important negotiation, he’ll normally pick the former.

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8 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

From the persective of a character in the game, status is a well-defined value and insight rank is meaningless. IR is metagame info only the players and GM have.

If a daimyo NPC is choosing between a status 4 IR 1 and a status 1 IR 4 courtier to lead an important negotiation, he’ll normally pick the former.

While Your example is understandable, I would say it relies on extremes to make a point.

I would say even in Rokugan the higher ups do understand that skill is required to preform a task.

And contrary to your statement Insight rank is recognized in Rokugan, as you are required to prove you skill/knowledge to your sensei to be taught the next school technique.

So skill is recognized in Rokugan.

A great example of this is the Imperial legions.

While they will give high status samurais positions in the Legion, these positions tend to be administrative for one of the paper legions.

Unless they have proven themselves to be a capable leader in the field.

I am not saying that status is not important in Rokugan, but I think you are putting way to much importance on it even for Rokugan.

That and I would say glory holds way more importance then status in Rokugan.

 

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31 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

While Your example is understandable, I would say it relies on extremes to make a point.

I would say even in Rokugan the higher ups do understand that skill is required to preform a task.

And contrary to your statement Insight rank is recognized in Rokugan, as you are required to prove you skill/knowledge to your sensei to be taught the next school technique.

So skill is recognized in Rokugan.

A great example of this is the Imperial legions.

While they will give high status samurais positions in the Legion, these positions tend to be administrative for one of the paper legions.

Unless they have proven themselves to be a capable leader in the field.

I am not saying that status is not important in Rokugan, but I think you are putting way to much importance on it even for Rokugan.

That and I would say glory holds way more importance then status in Rokugan.

 

Higher status literally allows you to change accepted truth. Glory is important, but status equals power.

The problem with equating IR and skill is that, well, they’re not equal. In fact, if not for school techniques maxing out skill would result only in middling insight. A courtier with Ref 3 Awa 3 Etiquette 3 Sincerity 3 Courtier 4 has higher insight than one with Ref 2 Awa 4 Etiquette 3 Sincerity 3 Courtier 3 (for the same XP) but is not as skilled. He might make up for that if his higher insight translates into a higher insight rank, but a) that might not be the case and b) school techniques can be quite situational.

And while yes, students are required to prove they are ready to be taught a new technique, connecting that to skill is somewhat tenuous. 5E changed the mechanic to increase in school rank to require minimally relevant skill, but in previous editions a courtier could go up a rank in insight by doing nothing but studying how to use various weapons if he wanted to.

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2 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Higher status literally allows you to change accepted truth. Glory is important, but status equals power.

There is also the point that Status is not something in the control of the players, where all the others are.

In the books (3-4th ed) Status is a rank awarded to character based on his title. You don't earn status it is given to you by your lord or his lord.

Also the book goes on to say status is use like a rank in the military to give orders, not about how well people think of you, this would be glory.

Add to this that it only works within the command structure that you hold status in.

While their are stations that one can be born into like the emperor or a house lord these option are normally not available to the PCs.

I do know if you are using it differently, but status is assigned by NPC to a character when then are given a job and outside of the noble/imperial houses which no players should be a member of they all start with the same status.

You keep throwing around high status like it the norm, when in fact outside of one advantage that only adds one its not.

 

Quote

The problem with equating IR and skill is that, well, they’re not equal. In fact, if not for school techniques maxing out skill would result only in middling insight. A courtier with Ref 3 Awa 3 Etiquette 3 Sincerity 3 Courtier 4 has higher insight than one with Ref 2 Awa 4 Etiquette 3 Sincerity 3 Courtier 3 (for the same XP) but is not as skilled. He might make up for that if his higher insight translates into a higher insight rank, but a) that might not be the case and b) school techniques can be quite situational.

First I would have to question why courtier #1 is raising his reflexes. 

Second insight is not insight rank. In my years of gaming L5R I have never seen a player make IR by one point or miss it by the same.

This is more about a bad build vs a good build for just one insight point. 

as you can see when compared to a TN20 check.

Courtier 1: etiquette: 82%, sincerity:82%, courtier: 89%

Courtier 2: etiquette: 97%, sincerity:97%, courtier: 97%

About the school techniques.

That was changed at least 4th don't remember if it was changed in 3rd.

Now most school ranks are useful, most of the time.

 

Quote

And while yes, students are required to prove they are ready to be taught a new technique, connecting that to skill is somewhat tenuous. 5E changed the mechanic to increase in school rank to require minimally relevant skill, but in previous editions a courtier could go up a rank in insight by doing nothing but studying how to use various weapons if he wanted to.

5E changed the mechanic to force there version of how each character  should be build.

and they changed this in later updates to allow for shills outside your school to effect insight, so my guess is this mechanic was not that popular.

bold:Again this is a very bad (and slow) way to get insight.

Edited by tenchi2a

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