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Has anyone notice the lack of any info/ announcements/ Upcoming entries (New/ or reprint).

Seems FFG has gone silent on the L5R front.

I would have expected at least some reprints by now.

The fact that the RPG in not showing up in the Upcoming as least marked as "In Development" I could be remembering it wrong, but I do believe that after each of the SW Betas they would show up as at least "In Development"

This leads me to believe a flew things.

1. Either FFG seriously over produced the initial releases of the LCG products for L5R or the LCG is not doing as well as expected.

2. Either the RPG response was that bad and they are doing a total redesign of the RPG, or As was thought by some the Beta was just to placate the fans and has been moved to the back burner till they get around to it.

Meaning we will see something a few years from now or not depending on when they have a spot to fill in the Development line.

Edited by tenchi2a

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Apparently, the LCG is selling very well, so I'm fairly sure that it isn't the source of the problem. 

I'm more inclined for the second one. This Beta was a tough ride, and the last update did sound a little quit-y, especially since we had just warmed up to the game. They should have added two or three extra weeks rather than cut it when things were getting intense. 

On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved back the game to Alpha and do a full revamp ala Dark Heresy 2.0. 

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27 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Apparently, the LCG is selling very well, so I'm fairly sure that it isn't the source of the problem. 

Was a two parter. so My guess would be that they over produced the initial releases of the LCG products

Quote

I'm more inclined for the second one. This Beta was a tough ride, and the last update did sound a little quit-y, especially since we had just warmed up to the game. They should have added two or three extra weeks rather than cut it when things were getting intense. 

On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved back the game to Alpha and do a full revamp ala Dark Heresy 2.0. 

If this is the case, which is what I believe happened by the way.

We may have to wait a while for egos to mend before we see anything new on the RPG front.

Edited by tenchi2a

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And just to head-off the comments before they derail this thread.

Don't take any of my commits as hatred for the L5R LCG only. 

I'm just not a fan of CCG/LCG to begin with when they are attached to a RPG or the RPG is attached to them.

This comes from the years of IMHO the L5R CCG making a mess of the L5R story, and as a RPGer having to live with it.

I will give FFG credit where credit is due, in not using the you won the tournament how would you like to screw-up the story format that AEG used early on with L5R.

But here's the thing (again IMHO).

I have found in my many years of gaming in board-games, CCGs, LCGs, computers, RPGs, etc. The first three work best when there is a major event that they follow wars, galactic crisis etc.

RPGs tend to be more fun in-between these events. Pre-clan coup, after the coup, after the spirit wars, etc.

Computer games can do both well.

The issues this causes, its that for a CCG/LCG to keep going there needs to be crisis after crisis. 

While this is great for CCG/LCG games and their sales.

It tends IMHO to hinder RPGs and play havoc on the storyline.

 

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Could just be the Beta is over, and now they're taking the feedback gathered, negative and positive, and applying it to the Beta to create the finished project.

The Beta forums for each of the Star Wars books went quiet in terms of official input when those Beta periods ended.  Admittedly, those Beta forums still had activity as the games were well-received enough that folks were still actively playing them after the Betas concluded.

Of course, given that it seemed the overall (or at least most vocal) response to the Beta was negative, folks just simply stopped playing and thus stopped posting once they figured FFG was done collecting feedback.  Unless you're a masochist, why continue to play a Beta RPG that you don't enjoy if the people that conducted the Beta are no longer actively looking for feedback?

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3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Could just be the Beta is over, and now they're taking the feedback gathered, negative and positive, and applying it to the Beta to create the finished project.

The Beta forums for each of the Star Wars books went quiet in terms of official input when those Beta periods ended.  Admittedly, those Beta forums still had activity as the games were well-received enough that folks were still actively playing them after the Betas concluded.

Of course, given that it seemed the overall (or at least most vocal) response to the Beta was negative, folks just simply stopped playing and thus stopped posting once they figured FFG was done collecting feedback.  Unless you're a masochist, why continue to play a Beta RPG that you don't enjoy if the people that conducted the Beta are no longer actively looking for feedback?

Was make more of a global observation.

Figure the forum would go silent.

Was pointing out that even in the upcoming tab there is no listing for it, not even as "In Development".

As I have said, there could be many reasons for this, but it still seems strange.

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6 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Could just be the Beta is over, and now they're taking the feedback gathered, negative and positive, and applying it to the Beta to create the finished project.

The Beta forums for each of the Star Wars books went quiet in terms of official input when those Beta periods ended.  Admittedly, those Beta forums still had activity as the games were well-received enough that folks were still actively playing them after the Betas concluded.

Of course, given that it seemed the overall (or at least most vocal) response to the Beta was negative, folks just simply stopped playing and thus stopped posting once they figured FFG was done collecting feedback.  Unless you're a masochist, why continue to play a Beta RPG that you don't enjoy if the people that conducted the Beta are no longer actively looking for feedback?

Some of us ARE still playing. I just prefer to post my APs on RPGGeek.

Some of us LIKE the core mechanics.

I think there are some issues, tho'.

The betas for AoR and F&D did go quiet following, in much the same way.

Edge didn't. Not AS quiet, but then, people also had physical product still in circulation - mostly used, because of the vocal but small fraction completely annoyed with and making scatalogical comparisons with the FFG mechanic were, like now, thread-crapping their hate, and the fans simply wanted to avoid them.

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FRom the video interview with Max and Kat on The RPG Brewery it sounds like they where really happy with the Beta and are busy finalising the book. All three Star Wars betas started 12 months before the release of the book, so expect not much for another 4 or 5 months at least.

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9 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

FRom the video interview with Max and Kat on The RPG Brewery it sounds like they where really happy with the Beta and are busy finalising the book. All three Star Wars betas started 12 months before the release of the book, so expect not much for another 4 or 5 months at least.

Could you link the interview. Would love to see their spin on the beta.

I participated in all 3 of the star wars betas, and while you are right that it took about a year from beta to release.

There was at least a in development for each of the betas in the upcoming tab on the front page.

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5 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

Could you link the interview. Would love to see their spin on the beta.

I participated in all 3 of the star wars betas, and while you are right that it took about a year from beta to release.

There was at least a in development for each of the betas in the upcoming tab on the front page.

@tenchi2a, I think this is the interview @Richardbuxton is talking about.

Edited by JorArns

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I'm just quiet cuz the only topics I've got little to no input about or are just plain complaining. Can't wait for news and a chance to get my hands on the finished product. But I've got the LCG and Fictions to hold me over so no real need to come and listen to gripes.

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14 hours ago, JorArns said:

@tenchi2a, I think this is the interview @Richardbuxton is talking about.

So thanks for the link.

You made my decision not to support L5R FFG even easier.

With leads that think L5R is about going around dueling and fighting bandits, and one that learned everything he knows about the game in a weekend cram session I think I'll pass.

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24 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

and one that learned everything he knows about the game in a weekend cram session I think I'll pass

That definitely was an unfortunate boast, not that I’m an L5R expert but I sure hope they have contributors who have a longer history with the setting. Who knows at this point which freelancers they have, but FFG always utilise them for writing.

I like the dice, I like the setting, they made something different for sure, but even if I get the core book it will probably only be in PDF as it’s unlikely to replace other systems for me.

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5 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

With leads that think L5R is about going around dueling and fighting bandits

 

This is pretty much our way of gaming that goes like this:

- Challenge: Your character sees a Bad Guy doing bad things. Face them off and say awesome things to show you are the Good Guy who will take them out!

- Focus: Cleave your way through D20xD20 minions in all kinds of awesome ways to reach the Bad Guy. 

- Strike: Fight the Bad Guy in a 1-on-1 duel to death in some suitably awesome environment.

I can't remember a single campaign that didn't follow this formula, I loved 'em all, and it is really just going around dueling and fighting bandits. 

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On 2/23/2018 at 5:33 AM, tenchi2a said:

With leads that think L5R is about going around dueling and fighting bandits, and one that learned everything he knows about the game in a weekend cram session I think I'll pass.

Funny, as I take a look through various L5R adventures, things that commonly crop up are "engaging in duels" and "fighting bandits."  They may not always be major themes of the adventure, but they do show up quite often.  There's even a fan supplement of "Challenge/Focus/Strike" adventure set-ups, and a very healthy number of those center around fighting bandits, getting involved in a duel, or both.  Looking at a fair bit of media set in Sengoku-era Japan (one of the notable inspirations for L5R), you see a lot of fighting bandits and one-on-one duels (frequently lethal), not too unlike a great many Westerns featuring a gunslinger hero shooting it out with crooks/outlaws/cattle rustlers before getting into a fast-draw gunfights that leaves the main villain dead.

It's almost as if through much of Legend of the Five Ring's long publishing history, adventure authors both professional and amateur had made use of those tropes on a frequent basis simply as the fit into a general notion of what role-playing in semi-feudal quasi-Japan is like for those not intimately familiar with Rokugan as a setting.  Frankly, I'm 100% on board with FFG deep-sixing a lot of the overly dramatic and frankly ham-fisted lore and history that AEG introduced by way of card game tournament results and starting with a clean slate.

It's not unlike a great many WEG Star Wars adventures where the PCs frequently wind up either shooting things out with stormtroopers (or their setting-specific equivalent), getting into starship combats, or some combination of the two, with the occasional evil Force user showing up, especially in unofficial adventures where one or more of the PCs were themselves Jedi; in my 25+ years of playing Star Wars RPGs, I've only been in two campaigns out of literally hundreds that didn't have at last one Force-sensitive PC, and rarer still that said PC didn't either start with a lightsaber or acquire one later in the campaign.

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14 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Funny, as I take a look through various L5R adventures, things that commonly crop up are "engaging in duels" and "fighting bandits."  They may not always be major themes of the adventure, but they do show up quite often.  There's even a fan supplement of "Challenge/Focus/Strike" adventure set-ups, and a very healthy number of those center around fighting bandits, getting involved in a duel, or both.  Looking at a fair bit of media set in Sengoku-era Japan (one of the notable inspirations for L5R), you see a lot of fighting bandits and one-on-one duels (frequently lethal), not too unlike a great many Westerns featuring a gunslinger hero shooting it out with crooks/outlaws/cattle rustlers before getting into a fast-draw gunfights that leaves the main villain dead.

It's almost as if through much of Legend of the Five Ring's long publishing history, adventure authors both professional and amateur had made use of those tropes on a frequent basis simply as the fit into a general notion of what role-playing in semi-feudal quasi-Japan is like for those not intimately familiar with Rokugan as a setting.  Frankly, I'm 100% on board with FFG deep-sixing a lot of the overly dramatic and frankly ham-fisted lore and history that AEG introduced by way of card game tournament results and starting with a clean slate.

It's not unlike a great many WEG Star Wars adventures where the PCs frequently wind up either shooting things out with stormtroopers (or their setting-specific equivalent), getting into starship combats, or some combination of the two, with the occasional evil Force user showing up, especially in unofficial adventures where one or more of the PCs were themselves Jedi; in my 25+ years of playing Star Wars RPGs, I've only been in two campaigns out of literally hundreds that didn't have at last one Force-sensitive PC, and rarer still that said PC didn't either start with a lightsaber or acquire one later in the campaign.

You missed the point I was making.

While you are correct that a lot of L5R/ Star wars games  would boil down to tropes such as these.

The game itself was not directly tied and designed to these tropes.

It was open to anyone's interpretation of the setting.

Add to this that she admitted to only having played the game since 2011 which is a year after 4th came out.

And the second part of that statement was what most turned me off.

Learning about the game in a weekend cram session.

That's like my sister who has never played star wars or watched the movies.

Watching them over the weekend, playing a couple of sessions of the rpg then designing the next Star wars rpg.

Would you who has played Star Wars for 25+ years and has probably watched all the movies and read the books think that someone with a week at most experience should be writing the star wars RPG?

So we have two designers one with only one edition of experience and no real connection to the background and one with almost zero experience writing the game.

Add to this his post during the Beta on how he has always thought that 20 question needed to be more integral to the game or how in his experience the advantages/disadvantage were not utilized.  

Yes all that experience of a office game and cram session.
 

Edited by tenchi2a

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I do think that someone who will spend next year or two designing a game should start the process by studying the material, yes. It is worth pointing out that actively studying the setting with the objective of designing X is probably so very different from enjoying it from a customer perspective, that the latter's might not be as useful as it might sound at first.  

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Max did not say his study ENDED with that weekend cram. He said it started with it, including reviewing classics of Japanese Pillow Books he'd read before.

Max did also mention prior interest in the genre.

Ms. Ostrander has the story control, and has played a prior edition (4th)... and is going to Max for mechanics that match her vision. 

I'm actually relieved by the interview. They showed me both a love for what they're doing, and for the property.

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My experience with the L5R Beta is rooted mostly in a feeling that the game needs to trust both its players and its GMs more, and I hope the final product more closely adheres to that. 

But I am honestly at the point where I expect we are going to get a very particular kind of L5R with some very particular mechanics which will be a mixed bag. Some will be awesome. Some will be awful. It will be much like all the other editions of the game. 

I am expecting to buy the game, and then overhaul vast stretches of it with house rules, preserving the pieces that I like and removing the pieces that interfere with the equation of fun. 

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Meh. There will be no rewrite or sending it back to alpha. The game will be released in 6-12 months, with more or less zero impact from the beta test. The old fans will leave; the new, smaller fan base will cheer, and life goes on.

I love FFG, but don't expect that our beta feedback matters. It's not as if they'll suddenly run and hire Jay Little or someone like that to come in and start fresh.

And apologies for sounding bitter. After the grimdark mess of Star Trek Discovery (STD?) and the horrid drama behind the Aeon Trinity reboot, I'm just tired of another one of my favorite worlds being taken over by fanfiction writers who love the original content to death but cannot understand the core of what made the originals great. Enthusiastic fan fiction only goes so far, and frequently in the wrong direction.

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1 minute ago, lumia2 said:

I love FFG, but don't expect that our beta feedback matters. It's not as if they'll suddenly run and hire Jay Little or someone like that to come in and start fresh.

 

As a small note, FFG did this once with the Warhammer 40k Dark Heresy Second Edition RPG. And the beta feedback for the first version was a lot milder there. 

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6 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

As a small note, FFG did this once with the Warhammer 40k Dark Heresy Second Edition RPG. And the beta feedback for the first version was a lot milder there. 

I didn't know that. Thanks for the head's up. If a reboot happens, I'm more than happy to give the game another chance.

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12 hours ago, lumia2 said:

I didn't know that. Thanks for the head's up. If a reboot happens, I'm more than happy to give the game another chance.

I wouldn't bet on it, especially given the interview. In fact, I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed not to happen for at least 5 years... 

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21 hours ago, WHW said:

I do think that someone who will spend next year or two designing a game should start the process by studying the material, yes. It is worth pointing out that actively studying the setting with the objective of designing X is probably so very different from enjoying it from a customer perspective, that the latter's might not be as useful as it might sound at first.  

I never said that studying the game was a bad thing.

or that a person with no game writing experience should write the game.

It should be some one with both experience in game design and a love for the setting.

not just one or the other.

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