Does Bail have to be deployed at the start of the game?

[Don Henderson fan club 85]

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

What is this insane argument where you get to ignore parts of the card since they are not "effects"?

I don't know - I have already conceded that the FFG definition of effect is the text on the card.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

2 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Of course, I want Bail to synergize with Hyperspace Assault because it is better for the game. Unfortunately, an overly rigid interpretation of the rules has prevailed. The Bail/Hyperspace combination certainly would not send ripples through any meta that emerges, but I have played the game long enough to know that it would not be anything overpowered or game breaking, either.

The Bail/Hyperspace interaction is as good candidate for an errata. It would do nothing but further diversify objective selection. For a time, the competitive Armada meta became stale, with Yavaris, relay, lifeboats, and squadrons running the show. The recent Wave is an attempt to roll back the rising tide of squadrons, and also presents a good opportunity for old cards (objectives included) to make a comeback. I'm positive that statistics show Hyperspace is almost never used. 

Sometimes you have to look at the big picture, and what's better for the game. Like I said before, the game designers gave us a bunch of cards that reward careful preparation (e.g. Thrawn, Pryce and Bail). With strategic, a small window of opportunity, and your opponent's ability to simply fly away from hyperspace tokens, the Bail/Hyperspace combo is not easy to pull off to maximum effect. The combination is clearly a fun one, and has the ability to swing some games, but like I said, it's nothing earth shattering. 

I have no idea what you're talking about. HSA is the staple yellow objective if you have Admo or Demo. Someone should double check the Regionals data, but I'm certain HSA is up there. 

Bail+HSA would be stupidly good and I'd hate getting hit by Admo with it's perfect double side arc attack on me every single time.

3 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

So insane that it argues that exhausting Veteran Gunners is not the effect of Veteran Gunners. 

Ok just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page. 

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

every single time

Let's just be clear. The combination isn't guaranteed. strategic and simply flying away from the objective tokens work against this combo. 

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. HSA is the staple yellow objective if you have Admo or Demo. Someone should double check the Regionals data, but I'm certain HSA is up there. 

Bail+HSA would be stupidly good and I'd hate getting hit by Admo with it's perfect double side arc attack on me every single time.

Ok just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page. 

Lol we're definitely not on the same page because exhausting Veteran Gunners is most definitely not the effect of the card. 

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

I don't even care anymore tbh, you've all lobbied for the interpretation that kills the combo and doesn't help improve the game. 

[OlaphOfTheNorth 229]

The game's made better by trade-offs and non-obvious choices. Bail + big hitter + HSA is an obvious choice, and allowing it would staple it to certain kinds of rebel lists. That's not interesting.

[OlaphOfTheNorth 229]

You just mean "I really want to do this," which is fine, find a casual opponent who wants to try it and play it out. If you're arguing for the health of the meta, though, this would be a bad choice.

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

19 minutes ago, Don Henderson fan club said:

Is the comment directed towards me? I'm afraid I can't decipher your English without a little more context. Sorry.

No.

[Don Henderson fan club 85]

3 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

No.

Sorry, I've grown accustomed to your attacks being aimed at me!

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

Just now, Don Henderson fan club said:

Sorry, I've grown accustomed to your attacks being aimed at me!

Never you. Mostly your arguments 

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

17 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Lol we're definitely not on the same page because exhausting Veteran Gunners is most definitely not the effect of the card. 

Lol.

16 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I don't even care anymore tbh, you've all lobbied for the interpretation that kills the combo and doesn't help improve the game. 

How evil we are!

[Don Henderson fan club 85]

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

How evil we are!

On what scale?

[slasher956 546]

level 21 on this one.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Evil

 

[Don Henderson fan club 85]

6 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

level 21 on this one.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Evil

 

Blimey, crikey and crumbs!

[Ginkapo 9,321]

4 hours ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I don't even care anymore tbh, you've all lobbied for the interpretation that kills the combo and doesn't help improve the game. 

We havent lobbied for anything but correct rules interpretation. I dont think anyone disagrees that Blail would be helped by being able to designate his round even if set aside. We cant decide that without an errata. 

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

37 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

I dont think anyone disagrees that Blail would be helped by being able to designate his round even if set aside.

Hee hee.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Don't the rules always state he should be designating the rounds? If he's not, sounds like a rules violation.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Don't the rules always state he should be designating the rounds? If he's not, sounds like a rules violation.

He just doesnt get used. Cannot be used. 

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

43 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

We havent lobbied for anything but correct rules interpretation. I dont think anyone disagrees that Blail would be helped by being able to designate his round even if set aside. We cant decide that without an errata. 

You are the worst of us.

 

[Crabbok 9,869]

17 hours ago, RobertK said:

Assigning objective ships in Advanced Gunnery happens after deploying fleets. If the ship is set aside, it is out of play and can not be chosen.

If you could choose an "out-of-play" ship as an objective ship with the timing of "after deployment), then Most Wanted would be even more awesome. Choose a padding flotilla to set aside using Profundity...and then never bring it in.

I'd be fine with that.  If you were playing me, that would mean you gave up an activation, and also gave me about 40 ish points.  

[LeatherPants 80]

On 1/26/2018 at 9:09 AM, LeatherPants said:

The round token is placed immediately after deployment.  Since Bail's ship didn't participate in deployment, his trigger to place the token never happens.

Moral of the story:  Bail Organa should stay out of hyperspace. 

I too am siding with Dras, as I have since about post 5 of this thread.   

[LeatherPants 80]

17 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

We havent lobbied for anything but correct rules interpretation. I dont think anyone disagrees that Blail would be helped by being able to designate his round even if set aside. We cant decide that without an errata. 

Of course Bail would be helped if he could be set aside and trigger on the round of his choosing during Hyperspace Assault.  Getting first activation as the second player on a medium or large ship that has a considerable amount of flexibility in it's deployment and orientation upon exiting hyperspace is a mighty fine thing.  Probably too fine, which is why I feel that Bail was specifically set to trigger AFTER deployment.  As has been quoted innumerable times before, ships that are set aside (Hyperspace Assault, for instance) ARE NOT IN PLAY, and therefore their upgrades are also not in play.  Since Bail is not in play at the time of his trigger, you cannot access the text on his card which tells you to place a round token, blah blah blah. 

Of course, this is my interpretation and opinion on the matter.

I agree with many others though that this topic has been beaten to death, and no amount of rules interpretations/FAQ similarities/designers intentions/wishful thinking/finger pointing/eye gouging/etc. is going to OFFICIALLY answer and resolve this question until an FAQ is released (if it ever happens, which seems likely) to address this.  

[Lemmiwinks86 934]

1 hour ago, LeatherPants said:

Of course Bail would be helped if he could be set aside and trigger on the round of his choosing during Hyperspace Assault.  Getting first activation as the second player on a medium or large ship that has a considerable amount of flexibility in it's deployment and orientation upon exiting hyperspace is a mighty fine thing.  Probably too fine, which is why I feel that Bail was specifically set to trigger AFTER deployment.  As has been quoted innumerable times before, ships that are set aside (Hyperspace Assault, for instance) ARE NOT IN PLAY, and therefore their upgrades are also not in play.  Since Bail is not in play at the time of his trigger, you cannot access the text on his card which tells you to place a round token, blah blah blah. 

Of course, this is my interpretation and opinion on the matter.

I agree with many others though that this topic has been beaten to death, and no amount of rules interpretations/FAQ similarities/designers intentions/wishful thinking/finger pointing/eye gouging/etc. is going to OFFICIALLY answer and resolve this question until an FAQ is released (if it ever happens, which seems likely) to address this.  

It's not just your interpretation, we already have a FAQ very related to this issue and it's very clear, the one from Grav Shift Reroute that I already saw that some post on this topic:

"After deploying fleets, if the ship with this card equipped is not in play (because it has been set aside), that ship’s owner cannot resolve the remainder of this card’s effects."

The whole Bail effect happens "after deploying fleets", so if that ship is set aside, you cannot resolve anything (unless we get an errata). That is an official FAQ precedence.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Lemmiwinks86

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

4 hours ago, LeatherPants said:

Of course Bail would be helped if he could be set aside and trigger on the round of his choosing during Hyperspace Assault.  Getting first activation as the second player on a medium or large ship that has a considerable amount of flexibility in it's deployment and orientation upon exiting hyperspace is a mighty fine thing.

Bail is Medium-Large; HA is Small-Medium.  Which is what makes this such a silly hill to die on, because it literally only applies to the AF2 right now.

And activating an AF2 first out of hyperspace is... I mean, it's nice, but it's no MC75, or double-side-arcing MC30T, or RLB B-wing MC80.

[stonestokes 737]

1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said:

Bail is Medium-Large; HA is Small-Medium.  Which is what makes this such a silly hill to die on, because it literally only applies to the AF2 right now.

And activating an AF2 first out of hyperspace is... I mean, it's nice, but it's no MC75, or double-side-arcing MC30T, or RLB B-wing MC80.

I don't disagree about this being a silly hill to die on, but RLB B-Wing AF2 is also a (non-trivial) thing. Especially with Leia as a commander.

Put three B-Wings in the RLB, and add Keyan and Norra (and a HWK for intel) to be set aside in hyperspace. Drop the AF2. Dial up squadron. Leia gives you four squadrons to activate. Watch as Norra-boosted 3 B-Wings + Keyan melt the ISD's shields. 5 Black, 3 Blue, followed by 5 Red, 1 Blue from the AF2. If Toryn and BCC are nearby, yikes!

Edited February 2, 2018 by stonestokes