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eagletsi111

Zuckuss and Maul, How to Nerf them in Epic, but still keep them playable

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We have already had a list. People complaining about Raiders not being able to keep up with CR90 are the same people that say Vader should be banned from Raider because of range 5. Hey remember what happened to Imperials after Palp Aces got nerfed (because they were breaking the meta)? Do you really want that happening her.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/267154-list-of-crew-that-shouldnt-be-allowed-on-epic-ships/

Seriously Nerf Herders need to go back to the general forum and cry some more about Nym.

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Maul should be removed because on the CR-90 (and any future Scum corvette, or even the Raider if we get Imperial Ezra) he is Dominant design. The ship is worse if it doesn't run Maul. Also, Harpoon Maul Cr-90's with massed Thug Droid support (for all-crit attacks and constant condition splash) are head-and-shoulders above other Epic ships, and murder ships that rely on traditional firing arcs.

 

However, Epic ships do need a buff. Instead of relying on Maul and building all future releases around him/having to futureproof, I propose the following-

- no Dengar, Maul, Zuckuss, etc on Epic ships.

- no Howlrunner, Roark, Jonus, Esege, etc for Epic ships

- epic ships gain the innate ability to reroll 1 die when attacking and change one focus to a hit.

- Thug Droids become limited.

This means that Epic ships become more of a self-sufficient ship, and become less dependent on combo builds.

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9 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Also, Harpoon Maul Cr-90's with massed Thug Droid support (for all-crit attacks and constant condition splash) are head-and-shoulders above other Epic ships, and murder ships that rely on traditional firing arcs.

Harpoon-armed capital ships are beatable because:

  • Turbolasers can significantly outrange them and deliver a turn or two of fire before they can launch missiles
  • Anything which can remove target locks before they shoot can cripple their ability to actually fire -  Jamming Beams, Scrambler Missiles, Wes Janson (and technically Black One/Suppressor but it can reacquire the lock afterwards).
  • A Countermeasures Captain Kagi can really annoy people who want to double down on harpoons, and is a tough, PS8 heavy laser cannon platform for no great outlay in cost.

Maul, on the other hand, is much like Dengar - 3 points for massed rerolls with no downside (except it's a full reroll not just one die).

Thing is, even if you drop Maul, Rebels still have better capital ship crew - Wookie Commandoes, or M9-G8 on a nearby fighter, and Han can turn a target lock into focus.

The raider has historically been the better fighter killer, but with capital ships now compulsory the CR-90 gets a big leg up.

I'm wondering if a turbolaser raider might be worth another try; a CR-90 broadside on will be flashing its backside too, and it's a lot more fragile - 11 shields/hull total, well within the kill numbers for a full spread of weapons fire - even with reinforce, 2 primary shots and 3 turbolaser shots with Jonus can on average blow a CR-90s back end off, and getting that first strike off makes it a natural predator to the range 3 limited harpoon-armed ship; even reinforced, the front of a corvette won't survive 3 harpoons and a primary shot, but if you can hammer one section from range 4 you can swing things your way.

Remember that if a capital ship is compulsory, you know there is a huge ship worth many points on the board and Agent Kallus becomes incredible value for points, because he's a focus-to-hit on every shot and on the evade at range 3+ against the inevitable supercharged power cells primary.

Also - Forcing a corvette to manoeuvre might be a nice trick:

  • A Rebel CR-90 almost inevitably deploys in a corner moving broadside on along the back edge.
  • If you can deploy a raider in the opposite corner (you'll need an initiative bid!) and come in head-on, the CR-90 needs to turn 90' to to unmask its batteries. It can't turn back towards the board edge (no room) so it needs to swing into the board to do so, which strikes me as something you could exploit, especially since a raider's straight-line speed is potentially faster (because you can equip Chiraneau and an engine booster).
  • Add to this that the Empire has access to the TIE Punisher - Minefield Mapper and Proximity Mines, even without Sabine Wren or Cad Bane, can really, really punish a CR-90 which needs to turn away from the board edge to line up its guns.

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Remember that if a capital ship is compulsory, you know there is a huge ship worth many points on the board and Agent Kallus becomes incredible value for points, because he's a focus-to-hit on every shot and on the evade at range 3+ against the inevitable supercharged power cells primary.

All great points, except that on this point, remember that Agent Kallus specifies that the chosen ship must be "1 enemy small or large ship," so huge ships are ineligible targets.

And at any rate, I don't know that you need to add tech against huge ships. They have an imbalanced attack/defense ratio, so it shouldn't take much of your force to give the enemy huge ship a really bad day. At least, that's been my experience. Maybe Maul and Zuckuss change that enough that you have to tech to take out the huge ship quickly.

Re: Harpoons (or any ordnance), can Engine Booster + Rear Admiral Chiraneau be considered a counter by employing better range control? Admittedly, they'd have to be pretty close for the huge ship to be able to jump from Range 2 to Range 1. Just a thought. Then again, as long as it's not a capital ship, you just dove into range 1 of a bunch of attacks, so...Cluster Bombs?

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People complaining about Dengar, Zuckuss and Maul dont seem to realize that Torin Farr and Moff Tarkin exist. Rebels and imperials get some crazy epic crew, but they are all focusd on the unique aspects of epic, while Scum are selfish, making their individual ships strong without any thought to strategy.

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10 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

People complaining about Dengar, Zuckuss and Maul dont seem to realize that Torin Farr and Moff Tarkin exist. Rebels and imperials get some crazy epic crew, but they are all focusd on the unique aspects of epic, while Scum are selfish, making their individual ships strong without any thought to strategy.

Tarkin's great but he's very much suited to supporting or crippling aces with a pile of green dice (where one focus token can make all the difference) - which the sheer concentration of ships in an epic game tends to reign in anyway.

Toryn is a good point - and to be honest, that generally is a good point along with @Parakitor's - the best solution to an overgunned CR-90 is probably a Combat Retrofit Bright Hope. A fairly trivial proportion of your squad at sub 50 points, and when reinforced, able to take at least one turn of everything a corvette's broadside can throw at it and keep on coming, whilst the rest of your squad does the dirty on the capital ship - X-wings are just elusive enough that trying to engage them with turbolasers is extremely inefficient, especially if they're T-70s with autothrusters.

 

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