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HudsonD

Twin Tie Defenders & Gunboat

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Hi, first post here !

I've been playing a triple Tie Defender list for a while (2 glaives & either Ryad or Mareek, all x7), it's won me some nice games, and I'm thinking of switching a Defender for a Gunboat :

Rho Squadron Veteran - Alpha-class Star Wing, Crack Shot, XG-1 Assault Configuration, Linked Battery, Heavy Laser Cannon.
Glaive Squadron Pilot - TIE Defender, Crack Shot, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II.
Glaive Squadron Pilot - TIE Defender, Crack Shot, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II.

This is a very straight forward list, no special tricks, just pick a target, and pound it. Alternatively, switch the HLC for either a Ion cannon, or Ion missiles.
What do you guys think ?

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As you say, it's a pretty plain, pretty solid list.

Personally, I'd consider swapping to the named pilots.  Vessery with A Score to Settle drops in for a Glaive.  Add in Long Range Scanners on the Rho, and that'll set him up for a free TL, and might mess with your opponent's target priorities (I figure 4-red, 2-green Rho is the top target over 3-red, 3-green Defenders).  Maarek also seems good with A Score to Settle, to perhaps set up his crits.  Countess of course has more mobility than a Glaive. Personally, I've been loving her with Intensity.  Some of these probably would need to skip TIE Mk.II, which might be hard, depending on how much stress you wind up facing in your personal metagame region.

Crack Shot is also a personal style thing.  I've never really gotten around to playing it with triple defenders personally, but I know it works.  For other options on the Rho, Lighting Reflexes on a Rho can give it turn-around at a key moment, and it will still get a shot with at least Linked Batteries for modification.

If I was looking for a control Rho, I might go Deadeye, Guidance Chips, Flechette Torpedos, and either Harpoon or Ion Pulse Missiles (less control, more damage with Harpoons).  Deadeye/Flechette/IPM is a mere 27 points, and has two control options per reload.  While Flechette isn't super hard hitting, 3 dice with GC isn't too bad.  Combined with a pair of more heavily upgraded Defenders, it could be quite nice.  Like a PTL/Mk.II Ryad, and an Outmaneuver Vessery.  I don't know if that really makes it, but it's interesting to me.  The plain list above is probably about as effective as anything else.

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What about something like this:

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Linked Battery (2)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Linked Battery (2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Deadeye (1)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I like the LB to give a soft predator for the Glaives.  Plus still retain the crack to push the damage through.  Comes in at 100, but no worries for a initiative with those PS ships, unless you see more Rhos.

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I kinda get it with Linked Batteries, but I think that if I'm giving up /x7 and the free evades, I think I'd want TIE/D to really increase damage output.  Just for me, a single reroll isn't tempting enough.  For the same points, you could run one Glaive with Ion Cannon and one with Tractor Beam, both with Crack Shot.  That actually sounds kinda sweet.  I think someone just did well/won a regional with a Crack Shot/Ion Cannon Inaldra, so the premise of Crack/Cannon is strong.  Cracking the Tractor Beam puts an opponent in the right position for maximum firepower, or to be stranded on a rock after next turns Ion move, as well as reducing agility for the pair of 3-dice Glaive primarys, the Harpoon, and an Ion Cannon.

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What's the rationale behind Deadeye please ? I've never used it before, I know the card, I just don't know what it's supposed to provide for the gunboat. Flexibility I assume ?

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Mostly flexibility.  Also, there are a lot of ships out there which tech against target locks.

Every Poe runs Black One, many large ships run Countermeasures.  Building a list which relies on a TL to get a shot can often have that TL removed.  Deadeye allows a ship to just Focus.  Guidance Chips are a plus, but it's worth noting that a Deadeye Rho with Focus and GC doesn't have a shot statistically as good as a Focus/TL shot from a ship with Long Range Scanners.

The other reason is cheapness.  A Deadeye/Harpoon/GC Rho is 26 points, but while an HLC/LB Nu has a similar level of flexibility, it costs 28 points.

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11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Mostly flexibility.  Also, there are a lot of ships out there which tech against target locks.

Every Poe runs Black One, many large ships run Countermeasures.  Building a list which relies on a TL to get a shot can often have that TL removed.  Deadeye allows a ship to just Focus.  Guidance Chips are a plus, but it's worth noting that a Deadeye Rho with Focus and GC doesn't have a shot statistically as good as a Focus/TL shot from a ship with Long Range Scanners.

The other reason is cheapness.  A Deadeye/Harpoon/GC Rho is 26 points, but while an HLC/LB Nu has a similar level of flexibility, it costs 28 points.

Also - in the flexibility range - if the ship with deadeye is lower PS when it completes its activation it may not be in TL range.  Then when they higher ship moves into torp/missile range after their activation they can still get the ordinance off.

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I see... Thanks for the comments !

What about this then ?
Lieutenant Karsabi - Alpha-class Star Wing, Deadeye, Extra Munitions, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips
Glaive Squadron Pilot - TIE Defender, Crack Shot, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II
Glaive Squadron Pilot - TIE Defender, Crack Shot, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II

I know harpoons are all the rage, but I can't guarantee being able to get my hands on a copy of the card, and I'm likely to be facing some ships that like to use the dodge action, so...
(The 5 Tie/Fo list, all with crackshot & advanced optics is a nasty thing)

Edited by HudsonD

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9 hours ago, HudsonD said:

I know harpoons are all the rage, but I can't guarantee being able to get my hands on a copy of the card, and I'm likely to be facing some ships that like to use the dodge action, so...

While Harpoons are simply mathematically superior, other missiles are almost surely fine.  I think there might even be space for Deadeye/Proton Torpedos in a list with Kylo.

If Harpoons were 5 points, I think lists which use them would be fine, switching to Proton or Concussion, or finding points for Harpoons, or making the meta-call to take Homing.

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Based on discussions in this thread, and a few other places, I'm looking to run this list at a local tournament today.  Hope is to use the Glaive to keep people in the Countess' firing arc, and get the ion token.  The gunboat is there for sniping or as a distraction. 
 

Glaive Squadron Pilot 

  • Veteran Instincts
  • Tractor Beam
  • TIE/D
Countess Ryad
  • Crack Shot
  • Ion Cannon
  • Twin Ion Engine Mk. II
  •  
    TIE/D

Rho Squadron Veteran 

  • Deadeye
  • Plasma Torpedoes
  • Guidance Chips

 

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!194:27,144,-1:34:-1:;195:140,22,-1:34:17:;269:19,136,-1:-1:25:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Edited by Alpha17

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9 hours ago, FixB said:

I played recently with a similar list, but x7 instead of Tie-D and did quite well at the Cardiff Regional (well, actually **** good compared to my usual mid-table results :)).

https://force-is-strong.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/welsh-regionals-firestorm-games-cardiff.html?m=1

 

Nice write-up,  would you change your list in anyway with hindsight?

Also thinking of running my favourite Ryad and vess  combo with a gunboat. Had been thinking of sticking to juke on vess to buff the gunboat up to karsabi.

Edited by DarkTrooperZero

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Results from today's tournament:

Round one was against a Resistance bomber, A-Wing with Harpoon Missiles, and Nora in her ARC-170.  The opponent made a major mistake and zoomed the A-Wing in front of Ryad, and it went down without a shot fired.  Unfortunately, I messed up, and the Glaive Defender got separated, and had to work its way back around while the Bomber and Norra started pounding on the Countess, eventually having her go down.  The Glaive nearly killed the Bomber, but ate one bomb too many, and it was left to the Gunboat to finish off the Bomber.  The round went to time with the Gunboat and Nora chasing each other around.

Round 2: Went against a Scum list of a high PS Z-95, Fenn's Protectorate, and Talonbane.  Took out the Z-95 very early, and then swung back around to hit Fenn.  Between Ryad's Ions and the Glaive's tractor, Fenn went down fast as well.  Finished up using a tractor to throw Talonbane onto an astroid pile, then pummeling him with both Defenders.  Without the tractor to bring him back into both Defenders' arcs, he likely would have survived another round.  All of the ships were badly damaged, but none went down.

Round 3: Went up against another Skum list of Old Terch, Torkil,  PS 1 Z-95, and Fenn again.  The game rapidly turned into a cluster, and my Glaive took the brunt of the damage, but Fenn went down, followed a turn or two later by Old Terch.  The Glaive went down just before Terch, and the Gunboat was doing its best to actually turn around, so it was down to Ryad, who performed amazingly.  Love her K-turn ability, as she just kept hopping back and forth, killing Terch, and Torkil.  The Z-95 went down through bad luck, as while the Gunboat had damaged it early on, the killing blow came from barely landing on an asteroid.  

Summary, 2-1, with a decent MoV got me second place (out of 6 or so) for the tournament.  The first game was largely the result of bad calls on both of our parts, while the next two were better, and the Ion power of the TIE/D card showed.  Tractor was nice when it worked, but really "meh" when it wasn't.  Definitely a list to keep experimenting with. 

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So, after much thinking, and "why am I paying for Karsabi again ?", what about this ?

Rho Squadron Veteran [Deadeye, Extra Munitions, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips] (29)
Countess Ryad [Push the Limit, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II] (36)
Maarek Stele [Veteran Instincts, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II] (35)

Going to a vanilla Rho lets me save enough points to get named pilots, with Maarek at PS9, so I don't have to be worried about some PS8 pilots bombing me too badly. I feel a little bad about losing crackshot, but eh, can't have everything.

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On 28/01/2018 at 12:04 AM, DarkTrooperZero said:

 

Nice write-up,  would you change your list in anyway with hindsight?

Also thinking of running my favourite Ryad and vess  combo with a gunboat. Had been thinking of sticking to juke on vess to buff the gunboat up to karsabi.

Expertise on Vessery was really good to keep the focus for defense!

Having deadeye and LRS is a bit strange, but it worked quite well against TL removal (like Black One or CM), insuring I got 2 TLs on my target (boat+Ryad) for Vessery to use... 

I'm not sure this build is 1st tier at the moment, but it felt quite optimised as it is :)

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I've been thinking of trying something like this:

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Crack Shot (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Countess Ryad (34)
Push the Limit (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Juke (2)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

 

From experience defenders are pretty strong in the alpha strike harpoon meta (as long as you can avoid being caught by too many at once) and I'm thinking that ion could be a good control piece against small base low agility ships (possible even high agility ships if the defenders can strip tokens) which drop reveal bombs or like green moves (looking at you Miranda and Poe).

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