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Darthain

Roadrunner v Coyote

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Played my first 2 games against Uthuk tonight, fielding the elves, and that's about how I feel.  ****, those guys are fast.  I kept finding myself out of position with my cavalry, and closed on too soon with my archers.  I just couldn't make it work for me,, as they were always a bit further out than I thought they should, by any right, be.  The Uthuk are so much faster than waiqur or even humans, with such bountiful stacks of panic tokens I was getting blown out left right and center. 

How has your first experiences with the Uthuk been?  I'm back to the drawing board as they require an entirely different approach to combat than anything else on the board right now.  They are also particularly good at systematic dismemberment.  Ravos is a scary bastard. 

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This is awesome! I'm glad that Uthuk are shaking things up. My first run against then was scary, and Ravos was a brute. But my opponent wasn't familiar with Violent Maro, and left him alone to pick his army apart. If he had turned his wrath on my necromancer hero, it would have probably ended much worse for me.

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Just remember that flesh rippers and berserkers charge in straight lines only, so they're passably predictable in where they're moving. Ravos is another matter entirely, though.

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I have yet to find a solution to uthuk. It's like running against a whole fleet of demolishers in armada. They pack more damage output than latari except for Meagan on a good roll. So far I've been doing small block archers with fire rune and cqt with blockers. Had a few close games and a few really bad ones. 

Back to the drawing board, and order me some anti-uthuk acme merch. ?

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39 minutes ago, Aetheriac said:

Daqan and armor are kind of the bane of Uthuk from what I have seen so far.

Yeah I noted they hit hard, compared to elves, but not hard enough to be too scary.  Just hard enough to wreck elves :D.  

Definitely didn't want the 3x2 archer I had out as the 3 threat was more a liability than a benefit tonight.  

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I (Waiqar with Maro + Executioner + 2 Deathmistbanners for counter tactic) got tanked. I was ahead first half due to a successfull 2x2 Lancer flank on his 3x3 Berserkerstar. But the Ravos upgrade that gives damage for panic must have added up to +20 for the game, which was just overwhelming.

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1 hour ago, Maktorius said:

I (Waiqar with Maro + Executioner + 2 Deathmistbanners for counter tactic) got tanked. I was ahead first half due to a successfull 2x2 Lancer flank on his 3x3 Berserkerstar. But the Ravos upgrade that gives damage for panic must have added up to +20 for the game, which was just overwhelming.

With how little Uthuk have, Ravos will be a lynchpin.

 

Out of maybe 10 Games as Uthuk, my two losses are when Ravos was mismanaged. Another game was a nearly zero MoV win when Ravos was killed for no return. So maybe an effective way to focus him down is a good start. 

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I'm really wondering which units caught people off guard. For example, Berserkers without Warsprinter can march 3+1 which is essentially the same as a Spearmen unit's 4-speed march. The initiative is better for the Berserkers, though.

When I think of Uthuk speed, I'm mostly thinking of Ravos and Flesh Rippers. Therefore, it might be useful to consider how to mitigate their speed. 

As an Uthuk player, my biggest fear is getting tar-pitted and picked apart by ranged units or ranged effects.

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1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm really wondering which units caught people off guard. For example, Berserkers without Warsprinter can march 3+1 which is essentially the same as a Spearmen unit's 4-speed march. The initiative is better for the Berserkers, though.

When I think of Uthuk speed, I'm mostly thinking of Ravos and Flesh Rippers. Therefore, it might be useful to consider how to mitigate their speed. 

As an Uthuk player, my biggest fear is getting tar-pitted and picked apart by ranged units or ranged effects.

My first 2 games with Uthuk did not go well, running against Daqan.  The FleshRippers got out of hand on a flank attempt and hit the edge of the map.  Then came a single Rune Golem and a 3x1 Crossbowmen and ripped them up.

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4 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

When I think of Uthuk speed, I'm mostly thinking of Ravos and Flesh Rippers. Therefore, it might be useful to consider how to mitigate their speed. 

Maybe a tactic with Scions to distribute immobilize tokens and shut down their movement while raining down arrows

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4 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm really wondering which units caught people off guard. For example, Berserkers without Warsprinter can march 3+1 which is essentially the same as a Spearmen unit's 4-speed march. The initiative is better for the Berserkers, though.

When I think of Uthuk speed, I'm mostly thinking of Ravos and Flesh Rippers. Therefore, it might be useful to consider how to mitigate their speed. 

As an Uthuk player, my biggest fear is getting tar-pitted and picked apart by ranged units or ranged effects.

Warsprinter for the unit equipped is Red Runes, so it can be up to 3+4. Combined with Aggressive Shrieker, your zerkers are catching your opponent unprepared.

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11 minutes ago, Athelin said:

Maybe a tactic with Scions to distribute immobilize tokens and shut down their movement while raining down arrows

Most Uthuk has marches on both dials, which helps mitigate Immobilizes. They're best shut down by large amounts of static banes, which only very specific builds can do right now

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8 minutes ago, rebellightworks said:

Warsprinter for the unit equipped is Red Runes, so it can be up to 3+4. Combined with Aggressive Shrieker, your zerkers are catching your opponent unprepared.

I agree that they are fast, but when your opponent has that combo and you see red runes on the table, you should anticipate a long charge like that.

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Playing against the Uthuk core this weekend and am thinking I’ll run with some DK. I haven’t tried them yet and maybe a stripped down test of the DK might be fun. I’m thinking two 2x1s with no upgrades and Reanimates/Archers to support. No Ardus or Maro. 

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1 hour ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Playing against the Uthuk core this weekend and am thinking I’ll run with some DK. I haven’t tried them yet and maybe a stripped down test of the DK might be fun. I’m thinking two 2x1s with no upgrades and Reanimates/Archers to support. No Ardus or Maro. 

Keep your DK away from threshers, those things really wreck face. I've been theorizing just running two 4x3s of reanimates and seeing how that goes. They have all the qualities to take on uthuk (lots of wounds, regen, and lots of threat). Probably would need a dispatch runner to keep them hitting often enough. Wraiths will do a number on uthuk because you can move right thru them and spin around, but we need those to release first. I've actually been finding cav on both Latari and waiqar to not be super effective against uthuk.

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9 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm really wondering which units caught people off guard. For example, Berserkers without Warsprinter can march 3+1 which is essentially the same as a Spearmen unit's 4-speed march. The initiative is better for the Berserkers, though.

When I think of Uthuk speed, I'm mostly thinking of Ravos and Flesh Rippers. Therefore, it might be useful to consider how to mitigate their speed. 

As an Uthuk player, my biggest fear is getting tar-pitted and picked apart by ranged units or ranged effects.

Thankfully the Elves cannot tarpit to save their lives, literally, yet.    I know what I would do if I had my Daqan, but I didn't have them there :D

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19 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Thankfully the Elves cannot tarpit iso save their lives, literally, yet.    I know what I would do if I had my Daqan, but I didn't have them there :D

Deepwood Archers don't hit the hardest, but the thing about Uthuk is that they don't have to because even chip damage sticks. Also, I used the wrong word. I said tarpit but I meant speedbumps. I don't want my tricked-out Berserkers unit wasting time on your Aymhelin Scions when they could be murdering your 9-tray archers or your heroes. 

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2 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Deepwood Archers don't hit the hardest, but the thing about Uthuk is that they don't have to because even chip damage sticks. Also, I used the wrong word. I said tarpit but I meant speedbumps. I don't want my tricked-out Berserkers unit wasting time on your Aymhelin Scions when they could be murdering your 9-tray archers or your heroes. 

6-tray at max, actually.

But unless I have a pressing need for the upgrades, you're going to find 2-3 sets of 2-tray archers instead of one large group, probably backed by fire runes. Very good damage potential for the cost, don't need the depth with the built-in precise-1, and even if you manage to get to one group, the other groups can still shoot at you.

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27 minutes ago, Xelto said:

6-tray at max, actually.

But unless I have a pressing need for the upgrades, you're going to find 2-3 sets of 2-tray archers instead of one large group, probably backed by fire runes. Very good damage potential for the cost, don't need the depth with the built-in precise-1, and even if you manage to get to one group, the other groups can still shoot at you.

The problem with fire runes is they only work 50% of your games.  Some games they are awesome, others they do nothing.

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1 hour ago, Darthain said:

The problem with fire runes is they only work 50% of your games.  Some games they are awesome, others they do nothing.

Mmmm... even a single set of unstable runes is usable, and that happens 75% of the time, barring someone with energy manipulation. Here are the odds of damage from each activation of a 2x1 Deepwoods Archers with fire runes, assuming you reroll every die that doesn't show a hit on it, and do nothing to affect how many unstable runes show:

  • 0 Damage: 2.2% (1.6 % of that, gain 1 extra surge because 0 unstable energy showing)
  • 2 Damage: 15.5% (9.4% gain extra surge)
  • 4 Damage: 34.5% (14.1% gain extra surge) 
  • 6 Damage: 29.0%
  • 8 Damage: 14.8%
  • 10 Damage: 1.6%
  • 12 Damage: 2.4%

Average damage overall: 5.06, per attack. 25% chance of gaining a bonus surge, because there was no reason to attack with the fire runes. (Not that a bonus surge does much good, unless you want to use their innate shift ability.) Now, this does have troubles with high-defense opponents, as the damage from the fire runes and from regular attacks doesn't combine. But against opponents with toughness of 1 or 2, they do just fine.

Edited by Xelto

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Yeah, I've always been hesitant to go all-in on MSU multi-attack (either Fire Runes or Storm Sorceresses) due to the high variance in the additional attacks' ability to do damage, and because I can't consider such a list seriously as an all-comers contender since it will get wrecked against a Hawthorne Daqan list or anything with Carrion Lancers or Death Knights, all of which can just waltz up into your face with no fear on 75% of turns.

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9 minutes ago, kaffis said:

Yeah, I've always been hesitant to go all-in on MSU multi-attack (either Fire Runes or Storm Sorceresses) due to the high variance in the additional attacks' ability to do damage, and because I can't consider such a list seriously as an all-comers contender since it will get wrecked against a Hawthorne Daqan list or anything with Carrion Lancers or Death Knights, all of which can just waltz up into your face with no fear on 75% of turns.

exactly, I've had those games where the fire rune literally does nothing.  Or minimal, 2-3 rounds with only 2 runes, and they let you down real freaking hard.   Consistency is king, when it comes to serious play. 

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Don't get me wrong -- I've totally done the math on Simultaneous Orders 2x1 Fire Rune/Storm Sorceress Deepwood Archer squads -- they're 30 points once you pay for Maegan. And for 3 attacks each? It *could* be dangerous. For 132 points you get 3 of them and Maegan with Malcorne's to fish for the 4-unstable turns, and if you hit them and nail all your dice rolls, you'd be talking up to 60 damage a turn, without exhausting anything (I'd probably keep Maegan back to protect her rune-recasting). Which is probably amazing if you hit it, and even pretty respectable if you get more average rolls if your meta is 1-armor bodies. But... I can't bring myself to bank on that.

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