Jump to content
sozin

Tragedy Stimulation: a Cautionary Tale

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

What matters is that FFG as a corporate entity have made a call that people are choosing to ignore.

This is where you are tragically incorrect if you are referring to the FFGEC T.O. ruling that TS/Genius does not work together. He explicitly stated that this rule was just for the Regional being held at the Event Center in MN. The 'corporate entity', as you call it, has done no such thing as of yet, and if they did it would be in the form of an official F.A.Q update and not some post on Facebook from a store manager...

  It's amazing how far some people will read into something looking for the answer they want. Take it for what it is, nothing more or less at this point. 

 

@sozin I think this apology/explanation speaks very loudly of your true character, and I'm glad that cooler heads are starting to prevail and we can begin to come back together as the great community we are. Kudos to you sir! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Idk who the new guys are, or why you dislike them so much. But let's not forget that the OLD GENIUSES gave us the Falcon turret mechanic in the first place. And Fat Han, and pre-nerf Whisper, and Dash, and no large-ship counter, and no large-ship half points rule. 

Let's be fair. Xwing testing and balancing has been a mess from the beginning. 

I love this game, but I absolutely detest the lack of testing this game has. 

The design team has not changed since before wave 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nikk whyte said:

Anyone that’s ever taken 2 seconds to check the playtester credits included in every expansion would know better than to blame them for not doing their work. 

Right, I think most people don't understand the process (how short it is, how far in advance it is, how many varieties of ship designs and different variations of the ships they are working with, how feedback is given but it's not the playtesters that actually make final decisions, etc...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

New guy started right around jumpmaster release.

Right around when the first chassis to have a zillion upgrade slots came about.

While convenient to blame the new guy. It certainly can not be the whole story. It's not like the new guy being in charge of everything over night, while everyone else left the company. ;-)
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Sozin for saying all of this. 

 

I've done my fair share of arguing and firefighting alike over this past two weeks and it's really been getting me down. Your post has helped remind me that it's important to remember there are multiple sides to every story and where the focus should lie. The onus is on FFG to balance their game and lumping decisions on the community shouldn't be a thing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Velvetelvis said:

New guy started right around jumpmaster release.

Right around when the first chassis to have a zillion upgrade slots came about.

The first chassis to have like a zillion upgrade slots was the K Wing though.

Honestly I lay a lot of this at the feet of underresourcing in the design team.  There are what, 3 guys running the entire miniatures division, which comprises 5 major games now (X Wing, Armada, Runewars, IA, Legion), and I think several of them have credits on other non-minis games too.  They must be worked to the bone, it hardly surprises me that errors make their way through, FAQs aren't timely, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The first chassis to have like a zillion upgrade slots was the K Wing though.

Honestly I lay a lot of this at the feet of underresourcing in the design team.  There are what, 3 guys running the entire miniatures division, which comprises 5 major games now (X Wing, Armada, Runewars, IA, Legion), and I think several of them have credits on other non-minis games too.  They must be worked to the bone, it hardly surprises me that errors make their way through, FAQs aren't timely, etc.

K-Wing has 8 upgrade slots. High PS Decimators and IG-2000 each have 8 and came out prior. Not any real argument here, but just a point of information.

I get it though, they wanted to create a jack of all trades ship that could go in a few different directions. The downside being that it could also go ALL ways. I think they fixed this well with the gunboat. They didn't put all of the slots directly on the ship. You have to pull a title to go cannons. Definitely a good avenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True.  And go back far enough, Slave 1 and Andrasta both have large numbers of slots too.  There have been full bars for a lot longer than the newest designers have been there.

The GUnboat solution seems like an apt one for the most part.  I'd love to see a new class of upgrade card - Configuration, perhaps - which does what generic titles have tended to do so far - provide alternative 'setups' for ships without needing the 'and you can equip another title' thing if they're fixes, or generally allow large amounts of listbuilding flex without allowing massive points fortresses that can do anything in any given game, which still allowing named ships to have Title cards which... give them their name and the associated specialist mods that that ship has.

Imagine, for instance, if the K Wing came with just the missile and torp and crew slots, and you could equip a COnfiguration that added the TLT, OR one which added the bombs - and maybe, the bombs one took the crew slot off again.  Imagine if the JM5k had a Configuration which allowed torps but not the PWT or EPT, and vice versa, say.  Or something like that. 

But it's probably water under the bridge now on that score, even though the generic-title version looks set to continue, which I appreciate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only concern with having a "configuration" style card is that it could strangle the design space of other ships. The generic with no upgrades might get priced at a point that it crowds other cheap generics, and the multiple configurations on one ship could prevent other ships from using that design space. Worth exploring for a dev, but definitely some things to consider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it might be that ships with Configurations available could be required to use one.

It's the kind of thing that would probably need ot be baked into the system from the start.  Retrofitting it will be an ugly hack pretty much however you do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha, I didn't even see that post. Yeah, this is more like a supreme court justice coming out and saying "gay marriage is going to be legal once we meet and get the law made. Then the county clerk continuing to do her job as normal until that law is made. Because that's how laws work.

I remember going to a bar the night before smoking was outlawed in Indiana bars. Not a single person was smoking and the bar wasn't allowing it because they knew it was going to be illegal the next day. LOL that's not true. I could barely see 2 feet in front of my face. Friend of mine was interviewed by a news station and he nearly dragged through 2 whole cigarettes in 30 seconds. I bet I smoked a pack that night second hand.

We've had FAQs in the past that said "this will be in effect on date X" which was a week or two in the future. Did people quit playing things because of what was coming? No, they kept playing up until the night before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Killerardvark said:

K-Wing has 8 upgrade slots. High PS Decimators and IG-2000 each have 8 and came out prior. Not any real argument here, but just a point of information.

I think there's a difference between large and small ships, too, but we've really started seeing them added onto small ships lately.   Who knows whose fault that is, but it's probably true that small ships actually needed them to keep up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I think there's a difference between large and small ships, too, but we've really started seeing them added onto small ships lately.   Who knows whose fault that is, but it's probably true that small ships actually needed them to keep up.

The Punisher came out in the exact same wave and has the same number of upgrade slots.

****, Esage also came out in that wave, and is basically only seen in Epic play as a way to allow CR-90s to spend focus tokens.

It's not the number of items on upgrade bar. It's the chassis at PS8 with Miranda's pilot ability interacting with TLT and ordnance, plus a crew slot that lets her take C3P0 or Sabine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

Most of the world rejects the idea that higher courts can overturn the decisions of lower courts? Citation well and truly needed on that. I don't know for sure the details of the Chinese legal system, but that's the only big population block I can think of on the planet that might not have tiered court systems, and it almost certainly does, I'm just not sure off the top of my head.

And while the analogy is starting to strain here, I would argue that the FAQ serves more of a legislative role than a legal one.

TOs are local magistrates, making the day to day calls. Judges employed by FFG to run tournaments at their own headquarters are the highest court, trumping all others. And the developers are parliament, writing and amending the rules, be it through new releases or FAQs. 

Ultimately, the specifics of the analogy don't matter. What matters is that FFG as a corporate entity have made a call that people are choosing to ignore. That is just as bad, if not worse, than the oft repeated fears of rogue TOs making up rules about interactions they don't like that some people cite for ignoring the clearly expressed intentions of the game's governing body.

Next thing we'll have are sovereign citizens posting in here. Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

While convenient to blame the new guy. It certainly can not be the whole story. It's not like the new guy being in charge of everything over night, while everyone else left the company. ;-)

The new guy does seem pretty awful at game design though. Harpoon missiles were his baby and he was very happy about them on the interview they did with S&V. He liked the idea of a delayed explosion missile so he made sure they were the best missile by a long shot so that people would use them. He also felt that while they are abusive to swarms, that "doesn't matter, because swarms are already dead."

He came across as not only bad at his job, but also a condescending prick at the same time. Not a fan at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Sekac said:

The new guy does seem pretty awful at game design though. Harpoon missiles were his baby and he was very happy about them on the interview they did with S&V. He liked the idea of a delayed explosion missile so he made sure they were the best missile by a long shot so that people would use them. He also felt that while they are abusive to swarms, that "doesn't matter, because swarms are already dead."

He came across as not only bad at his job, but also a condescending prick at the same time. Not a fan at all.

Ok, I kinda want to see this. Do you have the source? 

 

---

 

Also it looks like this Monday announcement rumor isn't happening. Which means TS Genius lives for a while longer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Sekac said:

The new guy does seem pretty awful at game design though. Harpoon missiles were his baby and he was very happy about them on the interview they did with S&V. He liked the idea of a delayed explosion missile so he made sure they were the best missile by a long shot so that people would use them. He also felt that while they are abusive to swarms, that "doesn't matter, because swarms are already dead."

He came across as not only bad at his job, but also a condescending prick at the same time. Not a fan at all.

Now that is a fair point. The next question would be how the rest of the team let bull like this slip. ;-)
And btw, I do like the idea of delayed explosion missiles as well. The issue is mainly that it should be a 5 point missile :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Now that is a fair point. The next question would be how the rest of the team let bull like this slip. ;-)
And btw, I do like the idea of delayed explosion missiles as well. The issue is mainly that it should be a 5 point missile :)

Doesn't even need to be more expensive.  If you want it to be a delayed explosion, just...makeit a delayed explosion.  Don't make it do full damage with a 4 die attack AND another damage (and splash) later.  Cancelt he original results, maybe do a damage or something.  Or make it hit and cancel dice, then when yout rigger it you roll red dice to determine damage, or something (could possibly get extra damage thorugh against a higher agility ship that would evade most of the original attack)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PhantomFO said:

The Punisher came out in the exact same wave and has the same number of upgrade slots.

****, Esage also came out in that wave, and is basically only seen in Epic play as a way to allow CR-90s to spend focus tokens.

It's not the number of items on upgrade bar. It's the chassis at PS8 with Miranda's pilot ability interacting with TLT and ordnance, plus a crew slot that lets her take C3P0 or Sabine.

Yeah, I get that.  I was just saying that I don't count big ships in the same category and you're absolutely right that variety/combination is more important than number.   However, it is absolutely the number of upgrade slots that does allow Miranda to be where she is.   And, since then and recently, we're just consistently seeing small ships with more (and with more variety).  This wave, every ship has an absolute suite of upgrade slots that all would have seemed outrageous in the early waves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...