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Orsonius

Hammerhead for Epic?

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I agree that the Hammerhead would be a great next choice for Rebels, and if enthusiasm for Epic keeps up, we will likely see it come to this game.

Quite possibly along with the X-wing fix :P. I kid. They already put an X-wing with the Tantive IV expansion pack.

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2 hours ago, Orsonius said:

So I’ve been watching season 3 of Star Wars Rebels and noticed that by the show estimation that the Hammerhead frigate(?) seems to be close to the size of the CR-90.... 

Anyone think this might be a possible contender for a New ship for Epic?

It is in fact a corvette, and a perfect fit for the game.  I would love one.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Eventually, but my Scum need something with more teeth first. Something that can go toe to toe with the CR90 and raider 

Nothing can go toe-to-toe with a Raider.  Die you rebel scum!!  Scummy rebel!!  Whatever. . .

:P

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I think the Hammerhead Corvette is the most marketable Huge ship at FFG’s disposal at the moment.  However, they like to keep their game at least semi-balanced.  So, we’ll get a Scum corvette first.  If they do another round of Huge ships, it’ll likely start with Rebels again and the Hammerhead is the obvious choice.  Pack in the X-wing fix and it’ll even sell to the 100/6 diehards.

 

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I would welcome a Hammerhead corvette, because aesthetically the ship looks phenomenal.  In terms of gameplay, though, I'm not sure how distinct it would feel from a CR90.  As I understand it (and as they are portrayed in Armada), Hammerheads are basically just slightly smaller, slightly less-gunned CR90s. That may not be interesting enough to find a spot for in the Rebel lineup, as it would risk heavily competing with the CR90 so unless balance was pretty spot on it would either never get taken over a CR90 or would obsolete the CR90.


I suppose they could just make the Hammerhead Scum's "corvette" style ship, though I'd much prefer to see something like Jabba's Star Jewel (160m) or a Action VI Transport (110m) in that role, given those feel more distinctively"scummy."

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On 19/01/2018 at 3:11 AM, Parakitor said:

Quite possibly along with the X-wing fix :P. I kid.

Perfect opportunity for more Y-Wing pilots though  :D

On 19/01/2018 at 1:25 AM, Orsonius said:

Anyone think this might be a possible contender for a New ship for Epic?

It really should be the next ship for Rebels.  Perhaps dual faction with scum.    Something else for my Raider to blow up 

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I think the Hammerhead could fit as a 1 card ship with a primary weapon, with 2 crew, 1 team, 3 cargo, and a card (either a title or a cargo type) that allows a cargo space to be exchanged for a hardpoint, and a new turreted type hardpoint (exclusive to it).   

Personally I think it should have TL, Reinforce, Recover, and Jam actions, and maybe add Coordinate on a title.  In addition, Im thinking it should be around 11 hull, 6 shield, since in my mind it should be stronger in combat than the Ghost, Gozanti, or C-Roc, but not as tough as the larger 2-card corvettes  (CR90, Imp Raider).  With those base states and basically a primary and 1 hardpoint it should fit the bill, and i would anticipate it coming in around 70-75 points when loaded with the crews, team, and a hardpoint turret (or cargo) but could easily go up to approx 100 with every slot full.

Im not sure if the primary weapon should have a special effect at the cost of energy like the larger corvettes (CR90 -  energy for an extra die, Raider - energy to attack twice with the primary), or what would fit.

For the model I definitely prefer the Rogue One depiction over the Rebels version...

Edited by Cap116
Clarity and grammar

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I can't find anything about size, but I had assumed they were comparable to the CR90.

I don't usually delve into what-ifs and stats, but what if it has something reminiscent of the bullseye firing arc? That is, it's primary attack was 4, but could only target ships directly in front of its base, like a forward spine shot. I think it would also need an emplacement on the front that had a more typical arc, and an emplacement on the back, though I can't decide on the orientation/shape of those arcs. If it's a single-card huge ship, maybe just give it a typical forward firing arc as found on large ships, and sideways arcs on the aft section for an emplacement.

If the arcs are intentionally tricky, leaving some blind spots, it could have the special ability: "After executing a maneuver, you may spend 1 energy to perform a speed-1 maneuver." I think the dial would have to be limited to keep things from getting out of hand, but it hearkens to Rogue One and the ramming scene by letting it move fast. This would also allow it to bring its crazy arcs around better for frontal assaults. I think it would only have speed-1 banks, and speed-1, -2, and -3 straights.

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Hammerhead would basically work out to be GR-75 sized, though it could be made in scale with the fighters, unlike the CR90 and GR75.

personally, i'd assume that like the Armada versions, it would be the 'standard' version seen in rebels:

Hammerhead_corvette.png

with the uparmed version seen in Rogue One represented thorough upgrade card options.

a single hardpoint and a primary weapon attack seems probable, given the forward facing guns and the dorsal turret. i would also assume it would have cargo slots and some crew slots.

one thing i would like to see is the cargo slot(s) used for upgrade options.. like a "improvised docking clamps" card that lets it carry a pair of small base fighters. (a card that really should be available to all epics but the gozanti, given recent canon stuff), or one that lets you mount and extra hardpoint (allowing armed GR75's and 'gunship' CR90's and gozanti's)

i think the Rogue One version could be done as a title, which drops the cargo for another hardpoint to reflect the extra guns.

it should definately comes with copies of the ordnance tubes hardpoint currently found only on the gozanti, since one of the upgrade options in armada for the refit version is basically big racks of concussion missiles.

latest?cb=20170315093109

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Yeah - hoping it's a future release. 

Sure - don't mind if it's dual faction. 

Whatever the case, the Rebel version should include a title card for Lightmaker - which has some effect related to ramming. 

 

 

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On 1/21/2018 at 6:55 PM, Cap116 said:

I think the Hammerhead could fit as a 1 card ship with a primary weapon, with 2 crew, 1 team, 3 cargo, and a card (either a title or a cargo type) that allows a cargo space to be exchanged for a hardpoint, and a new turreted type hardpoint (exclusive to it).   

Personally I think it should have TL, Reinforce, Recover, and Jam actions, and maybe add Coordinate on a title.  In addition, Im thinking it should be around 11 hull, 6 shield, since in my mind it should be stronger in combat than the Ghost, Gozanti, or C-Roc, but not as tough as the larger 2-card corvettes  (CR90, Imp Raider).  With those base states and basically a primary and 1 hardpoint it should fit the bill, and i would anticipate it coming in around 70-75 points when loaded with the crews, team, and a hardpoint turret (or cargo) but could easily go up to approx 100 with every slot full.

Im not sure if the primary weapon should have a special effect at the cost of energy like the larger corvettes (CR90 -  energy for an extra die, Raider - energy to attack twice with the primary), or what would fit.

For the model I definitely prefer the Rogue One depiction over the Rebels version...

its slightly bigger than the Tantive, so likely it would be a 2 card ship. I also prefer the Rogue One version, which is almost certainly what theyd make

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Not sure where this idea that the hammerheads are bigger than a CR90 came from. It is quite clear in all their appearances that they are smaller. Almost half the size in fact. 2/3rds the size at most.

It is actually slightly smaller than a gozanti or CROC.

Edited by mithril2098

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39227081674_f08349b8fb_h.jpg

a shot that shows the relative sizes pretty well.. as you can see, the Hammerhead is about half the length of the CR90. and it is a lot narrower. it is taller, but that is mostly the bow bit.

if you used the 'epic scale' the GR75 and CR90 were made in for the game, it would be even smaller than the GR75. so i'd imagine that like the Gozanti and CROC, it would be made in the same 1/270th scale as the fighters. which would still make it about the size of the GR75 mini.. an ideal size for an Epic. definitely not a two card ship.

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There is a better overhead shot of the Hanmerhead and Cr90 with the Ghost at Chopper base, and a good shot during Rogue 1 of the CR90 and Hammerhead again that lead me to believe the Hammerhead should be approx 100-110m long, in comparison to the CR90 at 150m, the Gr75 at 90m, and Ghost at 44m. There are a few threads on the Painting and Mods subforum where a couple of the guys worked it out.

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  • I think it'd make sense as the next big ship because it's the most recognisable one of the right size.
  • Making it dual Rebel/Scum would work - give scum a corvette and give rebels their iconic Rogue One ship.
  • Making the different titles very distinctive in their effects would help them play differently : 
    • I don't, for example, see pirate voluntarily ramming very often as their ship is their most prized possession.
    • By comparison, I see pirates doing boarding actions a lot. The fact that the new epic rules mandate the use of an epic ship makes a boarding action Team upgrade a really characterful idea, because boarding huge-ship-to-huge-ship makes sense in a way large and small ships don't really.

 

On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:55 PM, Cap116 said:

In addition, Im thinking it should be around 11 hull, 6 shield, since in my mind it should be stronger in combat than the Ghost, Gozanti, or C-Roc, but not as tough as the larger 2-card corvettes  (CR90, Imp Raider). 

The problem is that that statline means 17 damage to kill it - whilst other corvettes may be more powerful, you can blow a section off them with significantly less damage.

On ‎20‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 9:01 PM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

As I understand it (and as they are portrayed in Armada), Hammerheads are basically just slightly smaller, slightly less-gunned CR90s. That may not be interesting enough to find a spot for in the Rebel lineup, as it would risk heavily competing with the CR90 so unless balance was pretty spot on it would either never get taken over a CR90 or would obsolete the CR90.

Agreed. I think the key is giving them a job which is distinctly different to the CR-90 so that you're not comparing similar ships.

Thoughts:

Swm27-hammerhead-scout-corvette.pngSwm27-hammerhead-torpedo-corvette.png

compare with the raider

Raider-i-class-corvette.pngRaider-ii-class-corvette.png

or the CR-90

CR90aShipCard-0.pngCr90-corvette-B.png

 

The Hammerhead:

  • Has distinctly more hull but distinctly weaker shields than other corvettes.
  • Has a better resilience to critical hits
    • (Both of which make sense for a ship which is designed with a deliberate eye to ramming)
  • Has less firepower than other corvettes, which is uncompromisingly aimed forwards.
  • Is actually surprisingly slow (which I guess makes sense if it's an old design)

So, what's it for (in game terms)?

  • A dedicated anti-huge-ship-huge-huge-ship.
  • A CR-90 or Raider has it's big primary weapon and three hardpoints to whale on fighter groups, agility 0-1 big ships, or other huge ships, depending on loadout.
  • Taking off one or even two of those hardpoints dramatically reduces the Hammerhead's ability to engage stuff that's not a big ship.
  • Making it good at closing the gap and then either ramming, delivering boarding parties, or both, doesn't compete with a CR90 or raider role-wise. It's great at eliminating a CR90 broadsiding your squad into ash, but a bit of a waste against a Gozanti or Rebel Transport - but you still know it will have a valid target because there will always be a huge ship.
  • Making it a dedicated battering ram treads on the toes of the GR-75 more than the CR90, but making sure it doesn't have Co-ordinate or Jam means it can't duplicate the other effects of the rebel transport.

 

Things I'd like to see in the pack:

  • Ordnance Tubes (because the C-ROC has the other modifications but not that one)
  • A "Huge Ship Only" missile type
  • A Boarding Party team
  • Rebel Hammerhead title (emphasising ramming, possibly Garel's Honour)
  • Scum Hammerhead title (emphasising boarding)
  • A Hondo Ohnaka crew card?

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Give her 12 hull 4 shield 1 card

2 hardpoints and a 4 dice 2-4 primary all forward facing

Give her a crit resist title for each faction plus some flavour titles

 

I'd still rather see an action IV or marauder corvette first but if it's the hammerhead I hope it looks like that

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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On 1/19/2018 at 2:25 AM, Orsonius said:

So I’ve been watching season 3 of Star Wars Rebels and noticed that by the show estimation that the Hammerhead frigate(?) seems to be close to the size of the CR-90.... 

Anyone think this might be a possible contender for a New ship for Epic?

Is a little bit shorter than the CR 90, about 95 m long.

 

I had built it with scratch built techniques, here you have some pictures... 

 

 

EFC17294-C970-40C7-B7B3-6C2FA6C3D13A_zps

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About a year, but definitely I wasn’t at full time, I have one son and one daughter, that take me a lot of time, so I only have no more than two hours, maybe twice per week...

Now with the layouts, blueprints and diagrams I had made I think it should be much easier and take me fewer time...

 

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