Sign in to follow this  
silversurfr77

Greedo question .... ANY number of his character dice?

Recommended Posts

20 hours ago, Amanal said:

It's more or less in the rules, try and follow the rules that add detail to the places a dice may be and how it moves about those places.

Character Dice in essence start the game on the character card they were purchased with and are rolled into the dice pool and return to their character card when used. The Death Trooper Dice that Krennic adds will be taken from the set-aside zone and return there when resolved, removed or at the end of the round.

Is it more, or less?  :)  You're essentially saying that a dice is not a character dice unless there's an associated card in play that matches that dice (has the same collector number).  So effects the specifically target character dice cannot affect Krennic's DT, and cards that target upgrade dice cannot affect 7th's Seeker Droid dice.

Which is somewhat problematic, because by the definitions found in the rules, those dice are typed as character/upgrade dice.  The presence or absence of the associated card in the play area seems to be irrelevant.

The play areas that the DT dice occupy don't seem to me to change the type of dice it is.  The explanation you propose is not the definition provided in the game...those are features of those dice, but those features do not define the dice.  Rather, the definition of the dice tells you what features go with the dice (I'm using "feature" here because using characteristic seems to be likely to confuse, since we're talking about character dice).  

The definition of Character Die on p20 of the RRG is "a die that matches a character."  That doesn't mean the character has to be in play.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Amanal said:

So you now agree with the idea that I could have 25 Greedo dice in my set-aside zone and they are his Character Dice because they share his ID Number?

The way the Set Aside Zone rules are written, you can only have character dice in your SAZ if the characters in your team count as being in your deck.  Which, by the terms of the RRG, I'd say they are not, but otherwise Krennic's ability can never be used because you can't have the DT dice in your SAZ.  So I think we have to allow that you can put any amount of character dice in your SAZ for characters on your team, or dice referenced by cards in your deck, including your team characters.

That does not, however, make them character dice for that character in play.  The possessive his/her/its character dice only ever refer to the 1 or 2 dice you get based on the points cost you are running that character at.  Those dice in your SAZ would be Greedo dice, but they are not HIS Greedo dice.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeremy's email posted on the Cunning/Separatist Landing Craft question should put an end to this.  You can only put dice in your SAZ that are specifically referenced by cards or abilities in your deck, including characters.  Greedo's ability does not make specific reference to rolling in additional Greedo dice, so putting Greedo dice in your SAZ is not currently allowed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kingbobb said:

Jeremy's email posted on the Cunning/Separatist Landing Craft question should put an end to this.  You can only put dice in your SAZ that are specifically referenced by cards or abilities in your deck, including characters.  Greedo's ability does not make specific reference to rolling in additional Greedo dice, so putting Greedo dice in your SAZ is not currently allowed.

To be clear, I'm not coming down on the side of infinite Greedo dice - I think it's a stupid argument.  But this ruling doesn't actually prevent you from having extra Greedo dice set aside.

There is no limitation on what you can put in the set aside zone except that they have to be referenced by something in your deck.  There's no quantity limitation there, because otherwise you couldn't recur the landing craft to keep bringing in Battle Droids, which I think everyone accepts that you can do.  You also can't argue that the character's inclusion specifies a number of dice, because it would break the good old Cargo Hold-Training-Unique Becomes Elite argument (and Training in general, honestly).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

To be clear, I'm not coming down on the side of infinite Greedo dice - I think it's a stupid argument.  But this ruling doesn't actually prevent you from having extra Greedo dice set aside.

There is no limitation on what you can put in the set aside zone except that they have to be referenced by something in your deck.  There's no quantity limitation there, because otherwise you couldn't recur the landing craft to keep bringing in Battle Droids, which I think everyone accepts that you can do.  You also can't argue that the character's inclusion specifies a number of dice, because it would break the good old Cargo Hold-Training-Unique Becomes Elite argument (and Training in general, honestly).

 

I would look at each of those instances and see if there's a mechanical limit to the number of extra dice you will need.  If you're playing SLC with Starship Graveyard, then your potential Battle Droid army is truly limitless.  If, however, you have no other means to return the SLC to play, and you only have 2 in your deck, then there is a limit that your cards specifically reference:  2.  Having more than 2 Battle Droid dice/cards in your SAZ would violate the SAZ rules.

Cargo Hold and Training likewise have a finite number of extra dice that could be brought into play.  A mechanical limit that can be determined by your deck.  

If we allow that just having a character means you can put extra character dice for them into the SAZ, we're ignoring the language about the ability specifically referencing those extra dice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, kingbobb said:

we're ignoring the language about the ability specifically referencing those extra dice. 

You're adding rules here.  The rule actually says:

Players can set aside any number of dice that match cards in their deck, or are referenced by cards in their deck.

As long as the dice match a card in your deck, you can include any number of them.  You don't have to count how many, or stress over what an ideal situation is, or argue with your opponent over whether having one Landing Craft in with Finn means you can set only aside one Battle Droid because you're not running Starship Graveyard, but your opponent might be.  The number of ID9s I can set aside doesn't require a deck check to see how many copies of Price of Failure/Feint/Leadership I'm running - it's referenced by 7th Sister, so I can set aside any number of them.

The rule as you're proposing it would be completely impractical, which is why it's the far simpler version that it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DICE (p4 Tournament Regulations):
If a player includes any cards in his or her deck that require a die, he or she must have the die matching that card’s collector number for each copy of that card. A player must have the die—or two dice if they are using the elite version of the character—required for each character in his or her team.

Only 1 or 2 dice for Greedo, any more and you'll need another card that references his cards collector number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Amanal said:

DICE (p4 Tournament Regulations):
If a player includes any cards in his or her deck that require a die, he or she must have the die matching that card’s collector number for each copy of that card. A player must have the die—or two dice if they are using the elite version of the character—required for each character in his or her team.

This is, again, a minimum.  If you have a card in your deck, you must have the matching die, so you can't just have one die but two copies of a unique card.  Says nothing about excess.  Otherwise, Training simply doesn't work, nor would the 7th Sister/Krennic reactivation tricks.

 

Edited by Buhallin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Buhallin said:

This is, again, a minimum.  If you have a card in your deck, you must have the matching die, so you can't just have one die but two copies of a unique card.  Says nothing about excess.  Otherwise, Training simply doesn't work, nor would the 7th Sister/Krennic reactivation tricks.

 

Since when has Greedo been in your deck? Greedo is a Character on your team and thus, the rule that applies to characters: " A player must have the die—or two dice if they are using the elite version of the character—required for each character in his or her team."

This does not say you can have three dice or that there is a minimum at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The was the SAZ rules are written, characters have to be in your deck, or you could never put a DT die in the SAZ.  

Honestly, I think the whole Greedo argument has been silly from the start, but it does highlight how the SAZ rules are a little fuzzy and really could do with some focusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Amanal said:

Since when has Greedo been in your deck? Greedo is a Character on your team and thus, the rule that applies to characters: " A player must have the die—or two dice if they are using the elite version of the character—required for each character in his or her team."

This does not say you can have three dice or that there is a minimum at all.

In addition to what kingbobb mentioned above, trying to treat this as an absolute requirement also breaks the Move-Training-to-Palpatine thing, which I think everyone knows works.  You're misreading the rules to get a result that you want, and breaking about a dozen other interactions in the process.

4 hours ago, kingbobb said:

it does highlight how the SAZ rules are a little fuzzy and really could do with some focusing.

The rules for the Set Aside Zone don't really need to be super-tight.  It's mostly a convenience, although there are a few cases where it matters.  The problem in this case is not the Set Aside Zone, it's trying to use them in creative ways to shut down an argument that should never be happening in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this