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silversurfr77

Greedo question .... ANY number of his character dice?

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This is my first time posting here, and am not very familiar with rules questions ...... however.... a friend of mine read something into Greedo's card ability that caught me off guard, and after trying to prove it wrong, I cant. the card says: 

"Before this character is defeated, roll any number of his character dice into your pool. Then resolve any number of his character dice in the order of your choice."

With that said, the rules define character dice as:

CHARACTER DIE
A character die is a die that matches a character.

As far as the volume of character dice allowed, there is nothing I can find preventing me from putting them in my set aside zone: 

SET-ASIDE ZONE
Each player has a set-aside zone. At the beginning of the
game, some dice are set aside. These are dice that can enter
play via cards.
Players can set aside any number of dice that
match cards in their deck
, or are referenced by cards in their
deck.
Players may hide these dice from their opponent using
a tray or a dice bag.

What is preventing me from keeping 25 Greedo dice in my set aside zone, and then rolling any number of them into my pool? The last thing I would add is the golden rule:

THE GOLDEN RULE
If the text of a card directly contradicts the rules of the
game, the text of the card takes precedence.
If you can
follow both the rules of the game and the text of the
card, do so.

There is nothing I can find that says only 2 character dice are allowed to be brought to the game per character. And as a precedent, I would refer to Director Krennec, who's card says to roll a Death Trooper character die into his pool (if conditions are met) .... this would contradict the idea that only dice associated with a character card can be kept in the set aside zone, yet is still in keeping with the golden rule. Instead of Greedo saying to bring X die to the game, his ability allows for "any number of his character dice" to be rolled into the pool. 

Any clarification would help. But please provide specific text from the rules guide. 

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to be honest ..... it did sound crazy ..... but fun at the same time. I do think a lot of the times, hardcore players of games like these forget the fun factor, and are only in it to win in the most efficient way possible. But this is why i was posting this here. As i said, i can't find a rule that disallows for it, and 25 is a LOT of dice to be rolling all at once, and then immediately resolving in any order. that is a potential 50 damage if all sides hit a damage side. And if "any number" truly means that, then i can bring 50 or 100 Greedo dice. 

thanks for the reply. 

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50 minutes ago, silversurfr77 said:

This is my first time posting here, and am not very familiar with rules questions ...... however.... a friend of mine read something into Greedo's card ability that caught me off guard, and after trying to prove it wrong, I cant. the card says: 

"Before this character is defeated, roll any number of his character dice into your pool. Then resolve any number of his character dice in the order of your choice."

CHARACTER DIE
A character die is a die that matches a character.

What is preventing me from keeping 25 Greedo dice in my set aside zone, and then rolling any number of them into my pool? 

Instead of Greedo saying to bring X die to the game, his ability allows for "any number of his character dice" to be rolled into the pool. 

You just blew my mind.

(going to EBay to buy all Greedos)

Of course, I want to say this can't be so... but you make some good points. 

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^^^ 

My local judge DID say it cant be so ..... with barely any investigation whatsoever into the rules or anything i had said. Hence why i'm posting here. I imagine an errata is forthcoming for Greedo ..... but only if he ends up winning all kinds of tournaments. :)

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I guess common sense dictates that it can only be the dice Greedo already had on him, so one or two dice, because otherwise this is completely broken. I could theoretically buy a thousand Greedo dice, do this, and be pretty much guaranteed to kill an opponent's entire team "before" the opponent killed Greedo, meaning that my opponent couldn't afford to ever actually kill Greedo, and would have to try to mill my deck. Even worse, I can trigger this very early on in the game, because if I run Greedo with a blue character, I can play Price of Failure to intentionally kill Greedo and trigger this insta-win condition. 

So this will almost certainly be FAQ'ed illegal.

But until then, the way the rules are written, this is still legal! That's hilarious! 

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Not sure I can point to the RRG for support, but when effects refer to a card's dice, they mean the dice associated with that card that are in play.  Dice in the set aside zone are not in play, and are not associated with any card in play.  So abilities like Greedo's are limited to dice in play, not in your set aside zone.

Otherwise, anytime you activated a character, you would be able to roll all those dice in your set aside zone.  

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CHARACTERS (p6):
Characters represent notable individuals in the Star Wars universe. Each player spends up to 30 points on characters during customization. Characters start the game in play and remain in play until defeated. Each character has one or two dice that are rolled when that character is activated.
HEALTH
A character’s health is how much damage it can take before being defeated.
POINT VALUE(S)
A character’s point value(s) is how many points it costs to include it on a team. If there are two values, then the smaller value is how many points it costs to use one of that character’s dice, and the larger value is how many points it costs to use two of that die. A character with two of its dice is called an elite character.

I have bolded the bits I think may help.

The reason for this wording would allow for the dice to not be re-rolled if they are already in the pool. So you may only be able to roll in 1 or fewer dice, then you may not be able to resolve that blank.

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1 hour ago, Amanal said:

Each character has one or two dice that are rolled when that character is activated

This part doesn't really help at all because Greedos ability has nothing do with activation. It is more of a triggered effect. I mean if we are discussing activating characters,  it might apply. But the ultimate question really is what rule prevents a player from having 25 Character dice in the set aside zone?? If you read what i bolded im my op, you can see there are few restrictions concerning what can be in the set aside zone in rregards to dice. 

I'd also refer back the golden rule, which i also pasted from the rules guide. Again, i am trying to debunk this soundly, but the rules seem to support it working.

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I too have a gaming friend who thinks up stuff like this and I fell into that type of thinking at one point to 'beat him at his own game' but to be honest it just doesn't feel right and causes no end of arguments. I play for fun and just laugh at him now when he pulls similar stunts; hence my comment above.

Welcome.

Edited by Dice lord

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I get that....  but i also play in tournaments, both for fun and a bit competitive. As you can see from some of the replies, I'm not the only one that thinks this is technically legal. 

With that said, I HATE errata, because every set that comes along, the list of corrections gets that much bigger. I played heroclix for about 7 years, and when that players guide got longer than the encyclopedia Britannica,  I couldn't take it any longer. If that is the future of this game, perhaps it's time to get out while I only have 10 Greedos :D

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this is also one of those things where even if it is technically legal, its obviously not intended to let you roll 20+ dice. Heck even getting 20 dice in the pool with spammed lowcost supports is difficult.
You're reading between lines to get to this conclusion. That never works, and the very few times it does its either something insignificant and not even worth mentioning or instantly corrected.

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I don't think I'm reading between the lines. I didn't even come come up with this originally. But as I said, in trying to debunk this, I only found better reasons as to why it works. It's not tricky in some insidious way .... it's pretty straightforward and plain to see.

I am admittedly a rules guy, and if someone sat down across from me and tried to do this, id be pi**ed. And i couldn't tell him why he cant. 

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8 hours ago, silversurfr77 said:

I HATE errata, because every set that comes along, the list of corrections gets that much bigger. I played heroclix for about 7 years, and when that players guide got longer than the encyclopedia Britannica,  I couldn't take it any longer.

Me too; x-wing is a bit like this now. No tournaments for me so I just use the cards as is - keep rolling!

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19 hours ago, silversurfr77 said:

What is preventing me from keeping 25 Greedo dice in my set aside zone, and then rolling any number of them into my pool? The last thing I would add is the golden rule:

 

Common sense, logic, being a reasonable human being, the rules of the game as explained above.

 

But naw, you go ahead and try to rules lawyer weasel your way into this incredibly stupid thing, meaning the RRG has to get just a little bit longer and more unwieldy, for no reason other than because somebody decided to try and be clever.

Edited by Stu35

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I would argue that since Greedo's card references "his" dice, that "his" dice are the character dice you get for fielding him (i.e. 1 or 2, depending on if he's elite or not). 

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Stu35. The rules of the game as explained above are pretty clear about the dice that go into your set aside zone. And nothing restricts you from putting 25, 50, 100 greedo dice in your set aside zone. You seem salty because you didn't think of it first. If you want to rely on logic, you should learn how to use it first. And then read the rules again. 

As i asked in my original post, please reference the rules that disallow this. If all you have is, "reason, logic, being a reasonable human being, and the (broad overarching term) the rules of the game," you've said a whole lot of nothing. Thanks for being a jerk and bringing nothing to the conversation.

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9 minutes ago, silversurfr77 said:

Mep ...... I thought i saw in another thread that your are a rules arb of some sorts? Is that true? Or a liaison between the rules guys or something like that? 

Heh, no.  There isn't any official rulings presence on the forums.  Email directly to FFG is the only "official" way right now.

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The HIS in the card text refers to the dice associated specifically with the card in play. Not just any random Greedo die.

This is why if you are playing a mirror match you wouldn't be able to use your opponents Greedo dice either.

If the die could be rolled in from the set aside zone it would be worded like Seventh Sister or Krennic's abilities which do exactly that.

Sorry, you have not found some amazing loophole.

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Funny idea, but it won't work like that.

Characters, page 5 Rule Reference:

"Each character has one or two dice that are rolled when that character is activated."

Activate a Character or Support, page 14 Rules Reference:

"All of the dice associated with a character (its character and upgrade dice) must be rolled when that character is activated."

 

Unless you are trying to argue that whenever you activate any character you can just roll as many copies of their character dice that you wish, it doesn't work.

 

As for the Set-Aside Zone, page 10 Rules Reference:

"Players can set aside any number of dice that match cards in their deck, or are referenced by cards in their deck."

 

I think that this part just means that you could have an entire deck full of cards that have corresponding dice, rather than your interpretation of using as many as you have in your collection.

While I think that they could use some tighter wording, I don't reckon it works.

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35 minutes ago, Lusiphur05 said:

The HIS in the card text refers to the dice associated specifically with the card in play. Not just any random Greedo die.

What rule supports this? Is HIS a keyword in the rules text? Or does it refer to 

CHARACTER DIE
A character die is a die that matches a character.

I understand what you're saying about mirror matches, but the same rule for Krennec and Seventh Sister that doesn't allow you to roll an opponents Death Trooper or Droid would be the same rule that wouldn't allow Greedo to do it. this doesn't help. And i never said it was a loophole. It's how the rules work in regards to set aside zone and the golden rule. 

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