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Assassin is bigger and badder than ever!

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It used to be that the assassin could only use his assassinate ability on other characters or face up creatures. Now they can use everytime they attack regardless if the card is drawn or if its face up. Is this how they intended it? It seems very powerful.

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JCHendee said:

Umm... if that's really correct, then it's ludicrous. That's not assasination, which requires surprise. What's up with that?

My revised 4th ed. game should arrive any day now but here is a German translation that I found from the old forums>

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/list/25/16260.page

 

Assassin

Strength:3 Craft:3 Fate:3 Lives:4
Alignment: Evil Start: City

If you attack another player or creature then you may assassinate.
You may not do this if you are attacked.
The opponent may not roll to add to their Strength.
If you win you must take a life, you cannot take an object or gold.

You may not assassinate on the crown of command.

 

The assassin still requires an element of surprise since he can't assassinate people that attack him, he can't assassinate anyone in the crown of command, and he can't assassinate ghosts and spirits <I guess they see his lifeforce in the shadows or something>.

In fact the only thing he can surprise enough to assassinate are other characters that he lands on and enemy cards that fight with strength. And then if he assassinates a character he can't steal an object or gold which is yet another penalty.

The assassin was already weak in the BI version compared to other characters and I don't think he was improved enough. Maybe he should still be able to take objects from the characters that he assassinates, otherwise I'd much prefer to play the warrior or troll when it comes to killing things.

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So essentially he is the same as in 2nd edition, from what I remember - except he gets to assassinate against Strenght cars when drawn (???) And a 3 and 3 and Fate 4 is nothing to sneeze at. A very balanced character with just one nasty ability that has suitable limits on it... or it used to.

Taking objects through stealth is stealing, not assassination, which implies killing. There is already a character that can do that... the thief. No sense in duplication.

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I think it's still a slightly over-powered ability. But I might still be sulking from the weekend when I get badly beaten by my friend playing the assassin. We had a lot of enemies face up on the board and he was quickly working his way around assassinating them all before turning his attention to assassinating me.

 

v.annoying. grrrr.

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 On page 10 of the rule book it says, under the Attacks section:

A battle occurs when a character is attacked by a creature whos Strenght is given, and a psychic combat occurs when a character is attacked by a creature whos Craft is given.

It looks to me like the assasin has been nerfed, he will never have a chance to attack a creature, as they are always attacking him. 

 

 Edited for formatting, the text box program in this forum is terrible.

 

 

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igfa_277 said:

 

 On page 10 of the rule book it says, under the Attacks section:

A battle occurs when a character is attacked by a creature whos Strenght is given, and a psychic combat occurs when a character is attacked by a creature whos Craft is given.

 

It looks to me like the assasin has been nerfed, he will never have a chance to attack a creature, as they are always attacking him. 

This rule is only a general rule to show new players how battles are resolved. The Assassin may assassinate any Enemy, whether or not he just drew it or landed on it.

 

Edited for formatting, the text box program in this forum is terrible.

 

 

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We played it - if the card was drawn you were attacked by the enemy but if you choose to move to a space with an enemy you attacked it.

There was some debate over whether it was posible to assasinate the Guardian though....

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talismanamsilat said:

igfa_277 said:

 

 

 On page 10 of the rule book it says, under the Attacks section:

A battle occurs when a character is attacked by a creature whos Strenght is given, and a psychic combat occurs when a character is attacked by a creature whos Craft is given.

 

It looks to me like the assasin has been nerfed, he will never have a chance to attack a creature, as they are always attacking him. 

This rule is only a general rule to show new players how battles are resolved. The Assassin may assassinate any Enemy, whether or not he just drew it or landed on it.

 

Edited for formatting, the text box program in this forum is terrible.

 

 

 

 

 

Surely you wish to change this thought Ell. There is NO way the Assassin was meant to get his ability ALL THE TIME. Simply no way. Face-up cards can be snuck up on and thus we have the Assassin in his glory. Off the deck (drawn enemies) are a surprise and he battles them in the normal fashion. Same as encountering other characters. If Assassin steps in on a player he can hit them hard, but if they come up behind him normal fight.

 

Same assassin power as always.

 

And you can't assassinate the Guardian. He sees you all! ;) Oh, you can't assiassinate the pit fiends either in case that come up too.

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In summary, the Assassin may assassinate any creatures in battle, including the Sentinel, or the Pit Fiends or Werewolf in the Inner Region. Yes he has been beefed up for the revised edition. He may only assassinate another character when he attacks them, but not on the Crown of Command!

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When an Adventure Card is drawn by a character, it shows him what is already in the space when he lands there. If an Enemy Card is drawn, it does not suddenly appear in the space, but instead it just reveals to you what is waiting for you to encounter. So the Assassin may assassinate the Enemy. 

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Seriously?

 

A character that NEVER has to have a dice rolled against him except in the ONE instance where he is attacked by another character? Seriously? And he can just waltz past EVERY board enemy???

 

Seriously...what ARE they (you) thinking?

He is no longer an "assassin" he is some sort of mythical titan! Dragon of 7 is a 50/50 shot on his first draw?

He makes the Warriors 2 dice choice power seem silly by comparison.

A pit fiend is ST 4...so the Assassin has NO concern what so ever in this space! Dosen't even need to roll a die himself!

Seriously, what is the point? Or better question, what has been done to balance this no dice power?

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ozjesting said:

Seriously?

A character that NEVER has to have a dice rolled against him except in the ONE instance where he is attacked by another character? Seriously? And he can just waltz past EVERY board enemy???

He can't assassinate craft monsters only strength monsters so the demon and wraiths will cause him some damage.

Seriously...what ARE they (you) thinking?

He is no longer an "assassin" he is some sort of mythical titan! Dragon of 7 is a 50/50 shot on his first draw?

Doesn't the troll character have about the same odds of defeating the dragon on his first draw? Plus the troll can use that advantage when other players attack him but the assassin's ability is turned off in that case.

He makes the Warriors 2 dice choice power seem silly by comparison.

Maybe in the first few turns but when the warrior gets some magic object weapons I bet he will gain the overall advantage. Runesword  + Holy Lance = unstoppable.

A pit fiend is ST 4...so the Assassin has NO concern what so ever in this space! Dosen't even need to roll a die himself!

True, but by the time ANY character reaches the pit fiends they can probably plow through them without even breaking a sweat. Even the puny wizard with no muscle tone just needs a sword and an extra point of strength or two before the pit fiends are reduced to a minor nuisance.

Seriously, what is the point? Or better question, what has been done to balance this no dice power?

The assassin can't backstab craft monster, or characters that attack him, or on the crown of command. The most common character combat is on the crown of command which IMO leaves him very vulnerable in the endgame. But the biggest nerf is that the assassin can only take other characters lives and not their objects or followers when he wins his attacks.

The ONLY thing the assassin is good for is killing strength monsters. Compare this with the troll and warrior who can also cut through strength monsters like a hot knife through butter. Plus the troll a huge life pool and can regenerate to heal. The warrior also starts with more life than the assassin and rolls 2 dice which probably saves a ton of fate o rerolls. Plus he can use 2 weapons which I bet will be even more powerful when expansions come out *anyone remember the chainsword?* Unlike the assassin the troll and warrior can use their powers on the crown of command and when other players attack them. The troll and warrior also get to use their power to beat the crap out of other players and steal their stuff but the assassin can't take objects or gold.

Yes the assassin looks pretty good but will all of his nerfs I'm not sure if the warrior or troll would be even more powerful. I'll try to test this out next game!

 

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akuma508 said:

As with alot of the new rules, I will pretend they were never changed. This is one of them.

A good test would be to play the old assassin that can only backstab face up monsters and see how bad he sucks compared to the other characters. Maybe he can hold his own but I can just imagine the assassin running around the board trying to land on a face up monster while the mages get to do cool stuff EVERY turn like casting the random and immobility spells.

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I looked at the new Assassin and compared it to the 2nd Edition Assassin and then I read the new rulebook verrrry carefully. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

When you land on a space and draw an Enemy (strength or craft) the enemy is attacking YOU, this is mentioned in the rulebook. The assassin doesn't get to use the assassinate ability. When you land on a space with a Character or enemy already on it, you are attacking them thus you CAN assassinate them. According to the 2nd edition rules (or errata I can't remember which) you cannot assassinate things on spaces such as the Guardian (or Sentinel as it used to be called). Since the new 4th Edition rules say you have to take a life from your victim (same as in 2nd Edition), not gold or objects, it seems fairly obvious you can't assassinate things "built into the board"  like the Guardian. They don't have any lives!

The new Assassin actually seems to work EXACTLY like the 2nd Edition version as far as I can see.

Also, in it doesn't say anywhere that you can't assassinate craft monsters and it didn't in 2nd Edition either from memory. You sneak up behind and MENTALLY stab them!  It pays to have a sharp intellect!

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Gaudy Scabbard said:

I looked at the new Assassin and compared it to the 2nd Edition Assassin and then I read the new rulebook verrrry carefully. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

When you land on a space and draw an Enemy (strength or craft) the enemy is attacking YOU, this is mentioned in the rulebook. The assassin doesn't get to use the assassinate ability. When you land on a space with a Character or enemy already on it, you are attacking them thus you CAN assassinate them. According to the 2nd edition rules (or errata I can't remember which) you cannot assassinate things on spaces such as the Guardian (or Sentinel as it used to be called). Since the new 4th Edition rules say you have to take a life from your victim (same as in 2nd Edition), not gold or objects, it seems fairly obvious you can't assassinate things "built into the board"  like the Guardian. They don't have any lives!

The new Assassin actually seems to work EXACTLY like the 2nd Edition version as far as I can see.

Also, in it doesn't say anywhere that you can't assassinate craft monsters and it didn't in 2nd Edition either from memory. You sneak up behind and MENTALLY stab them!  It pays to have a sharp intellect!

Unfortunatly, Elliot's word is pretty much final on the boards as he actually has a role in developing the rules for Talisman, and I quote:

In summary, the Assassin may assassinate any creatures in battle, including the Sentinel, or the Pit Fiends or Werewolf in the Inner Region. Yes he has been beefed up for the revised edition. He may only assassinate another character when he attacks them, but not on the Crown of Command!

When an Adventure Card is drawn by a character, it shows him what is already in the space when he lands there. If an Enemy Card is drawn, it does not suddenly appear in the space, but instead it just reveals to you what is waiting for you to encounter. So the Assassin may assassinate the Enemy.

Also, in regards to your "Psyhic Assassination", also not possible. It doesn't need to say that you can't assasinate craft monsters specifically as the rule actually states:

The opponent may not roll to add to their Strength.

Which implies that you are in Physical Combat and not Psyhic Combat.

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I don't care what he says on the boards, i'm going by the rules in the rulebook!

They say otherwise so if those rules are incorrect then that's FFG's fault for sloppy editing and they should release an errata pronto.

If you read the rule book carefully and with consideration you'll come to the same conclusion I have.

Enemies you draw ARE ATTACKING YOU. That's what it says. Therefore, the Assassin cannot use the assassinate ability. With all due respect to any developers, I have to disagree with your interpretation of the rules.

By the way, I never take rulings posted on forum boards seriously, some of the BI people posted rulings on the WFRP and Dark Heresy RPGs which turned out to be incorrect and were officially overturned!

Again with all due respect to any developers, I think you'd have to be insane to rule that Assassins can use their abilities on "built in creatures" on board spaces. For one thing they don't count as Characters or Enemies. Again that contradicts what the rulebook says and the Assassin Character card.

Just comparing the wording on Assassin, 2nd and 4th Edition, and the wording in the rulebooks, I still maintain that the 2nd and 4th Edition Assassins are identical and that's what i'll stand by.

If any developer would like to explain why they made the Assassin supremely overpowered and thus hideously broken i'm all ears. I would be even more interested to know why their interpretation does not remotely correspond with the rulebook.

I suspect many players of Talisman will never frequent these boards and will go by the interpretations in the rulebook, which are the same as in Talisman 2nd Edition. That's something i'll bear in mind when I suggest a game to some aspiring potential Talisman recruits.

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Woah there cowboy, back up. I didn't meant to say that Elliots words is scripture, just to mean that he is usually correct.

Unfortunatly, I have to go out now, but if you could please quote me where in the rulebook it states THEY ATTACK you, we can continue this conversation when I get back.

Ta! :D

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Gaudy Scabbard said:

I don't care what he says on the boards, i'm going by the rules in the rulebook!

They say otherwise so if those rules are incorrect then that's FFG's fault for sloppy editing and they should release an errata pronto.

If you read the rule book carefully and with consideration you'll come to the same conclusion I have.

Enemies you draw ARE ATTACKING YOU. That's what it says. Therefore, the Assassin cannot use the assassinate ability. With all due respect to any developers, I have to disagree with your interpretation of the rules.

By the way, I never take rulings posted on forum boards seriously, some of the BI people posted rulings on the WFRP and Dark Heresy RPGs which turned out to be incorrect and were officially overturned!

Again with all due respect to any developers, I think you'd have to be insane to rule that Assassins can use their abilities on "built in creatures" on board spaces. For one thing they don't count as Characters or Enemies. Again that contradicts what the rulebook says and the Assassin Character card.

Just comparing the wording on Assassin, 2nd and 4th Edition, and the wording in the rulebooks, I still maintain that the 2nd and 4th Edition Assassins are identical and that's what i'll stand by.

If any developer would like to explain why they made the Assassin supremely overpowered and thus hideously broken i'm all ears. I would be even more interested to know why their interpretation does not remotely correspond with the rulebook.

I suspect many players of Talisman will never frequent these boards and will go by the interpretations in the rulebook, which are the same as in Talisman 2nd Edition. That's something i'll bear in mind when I suggest a game to some aspiring potential Talisman recruits.

 

Agreed.

If the Assassin can use his ability on any Strength enemy in play or just drawn, they are game-breakingly overpowered. As per my earlier post I already think the ability to assasinate face up cards and characters is slightly unbalanced compared to other character abilities.

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Must admit I did get into full flow there. Apologies for that, I can get quite passionate in discussions on topics I feel strongly about. Today it's gaming, last week it was social services here in the UK.

*Breath Deeply*

O.K. I don't have the rulebook near me at this moment since i'm having my lunch break at work but go to the combat section and read all of it carefully. It specifically says that when you draw an Enemy card that enemy is attacking you.

With the wording on Assassin that means no assassinate abiltiy. Only on Characters and Enemy cards that are already face up on a space when you land on it can you use the assassinate ability.

With the exception of adding the Fate Points, the FFG Assassin looks the  same as the BI Assassin which was a straight reprint of the 2nd Edition Assassin.

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I am looking forward to getting this version over xmas... I am sure many of my mates will draft in armies of Lawyers to get this resolved!!

The Assassin was always ridiculously over powered from 1st ed, and when he was drawn everyone would try and kill him as quickly as possible.

It has always been that cards you draw attack you, if they were already there you would attack them.

Does he keep the enemies he assasinates for experience (we always played that he didn't in earlier editions)?

It may be someone felt he needed beefing up, I always thought the ability to gain an extra 4 strength within 10 rounds was really underpowered.

Takes away the point of being the troll really.
 

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John Goodenough has said that you can assassinate any creature on the board or cards that you draw or not. I must say that the assassin is very powerful, or maybe overpowered?  He will kill strength enemies easily

Next time, i will try it out...

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Gaudy Scabbard said:

O.K. I don't have the rulebook near me at this moment since i'm having my lunch break at work but go to the combat section and read all of it carefully. It specifically says that when you draw an Enemy card that enemy is attacking you.

With the wording on Assassin that means no assassinate abiltiy. Only on Characters and Enemy cards that are already face up on a space when you land on it can you use the assassinate ability.

With the exception of adding the Fate Points, the FFG Assassin looks the  same as the BI Assassin which was a straight reprint of the 2nd Edition Assassin.

Differences between BI and FFG Assassin are the following:

- FFG Assassin can use assassinate on Werewolf and Pitfiends

- FFG Assassin can assassinate Strength Enemies as soon as he draws them (there's no mention of face-up cards)

The second point is clarified in the Rules Subforum, so if you don't agree you need to make a house rule.

Your point seems correct but it's not. The Rulebook says that when you draw an Enemy card you're attacked by the creature. It also says that when you encounter (=land on) a creature you're still attacked. Then you won't be able to assassinate neither face up creatures nor drawn enemies, which is absurd, of course.

The card DOESN'T state that you cannot use the ability when you're attacked by a creature. Its only limitation is "when you're attacked by another Character".

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