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Is Nymranda the new Triple Jumps

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1 minute ago, Darth Ruin said:

Don't let evidence get in the way of a good shitpost. 

Or, you know, go beyond just the winning list (Arizona is missing there it looks like, too) and add in the fact that it's been occurring more in recent tourneys...

 

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37 minutes ago, Knave Squawk said:

Are you sure the initial statement is true? A lot of the streams showed Nym + Miranda but a quick glance at regional winners for the last few months looks like Imperial Aces are dominant, especially Quickdraw and Vader. There was a lot of PS11 QD flying around, who can move out of the way of drop on reveal and Genius / Trajectory bombs. 

PIttsburgh Regional - Palp Aces (Duncan)

Cesena, Emilia-Romagna (Italy) - Dash / Nym

Dutch Nationals - Palp Aces

Fresno Regional - Palp Aces (Palpoons)

Austin Regional - QD + Gunboats

Cardiff - Nym/Miranda

Grosseto / Toscana / Italy Regional - Vader / Gunboat / QD

Salt Lake City - Dash / Poe

Tricity Regionals - Fenn Rau / Kulda / Thweek

Calgary - Nym/Miranda

Linkoping - Vader / QD / Pure Sabacc

 

Some of these were before the discovery of Tragedy Simulator (which is what I think the name of the list should be).

 

Aside from that I think there is an overwhelming feeling that Vader and Quickdraw as well as other Imperial elements offer a certain level of counterplay and interaction that Tragedy Simulator does not. 

 

This list drastically increases the tankiness necessary to joust while providing that needed tankiness.

 

I've yet to see someone show me a list that comfortably approaches it while being meta viable.  It makes for short games with limited options.

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I ran a tournament yesterday, 17 players. Nym/Miranda won. Final match was that vs 4 auzitucks. The wookies did manage to soak up a lot but eventually they crumbled. It's a ridiculous list and almost makes me not want to go to a regional knowing that it's what everyone is flying.

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Expert handling on aces definitely is an option. My Poe/Black One/Expert Handling + Lothal Rebel/AP combo means that Nymranda get 0 target locks on Poe ever. And I have regen to deal with bombs.

It's one of the best lists out there butit is beatable. Now we just need aces to be competitive against bombs....

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3 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

Those ships seem fragile, especially Nym, like 2-3 harpoons from something with Deadeye and you just killed one of them.  Or punch hard and regen, like Norra, and you'll win. 

What am I missing here? 

Nothing. It's just the typical internet whining. 

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49 minutes ago, migs6000 said:

I ran a tournament yesterday, 17 players. Nym/Miranda won. Final match was that vs 4 auzitucks. The wookies did manage to soak up a lot but eventually they crumbled. It's a ridiculous list and almost makes me not want to go to a regional knowing that it's what everyone is flying.

I really hate the wookies too.

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2 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I flew Nymranda against a good local player last night.  I am an actively poor Miranda player (I tend to get her trapped and demolished), and it was literally the first time I've flown a Scurrg.  The player asked me to fly the list against him as part of his Regionals/SO prep.  He was flying a QD, OL, Deadeye Rho list.

He pulled off two really good blocks, one of them resulting in good shots against Miranda.  Nym soloed the Rho in two rounds ... a Bomblet for two hits, a Harpoon, then a TLT followup as the Rho desperately fled.  Miranda Cluster Bombed OL, and Nym finished OL with a Bomblet.  Nym did die to a perfect QD retaliation shot (and a point from his own Bomblet), but at that point it was QD with three HP versus Miranda with no damage (and unused Harpoons), and he conceded.

The game was not even close ... again, I had literally zero experience with the list, and he's been flying his list for a month.  I didn't fly well, and he did.  Dice were on my side, but only on the attacks against Miranda, and she ended up at full HP anyway.  I tend to be a pessimistic player, constantly envisioning ways in which I can lose games, but in this game there was simply never a doubt in my mind, from the second I saw his list.  Not even a flicker of any way in which I could lose.

It's an oppressive list, and it was not fun for me to fly or for him to fly against.  I don't know how he felt about it, but I felt like it was an hour of my life wasted.

How does this keep happening?

Burn out. Nothing more.

There is ton of things that counter Nymranda. As usual overreaction on the side of the community. Instead of crying about imbalance it is much better to figure out what counters flavour of the month.

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wookies are far far more irritating to me, more because of the bordum factor than anything else.

They literally do nothing but slug forward and reinforce. They take forever to kill you unless they roll lucky and take forever to die due to moderate hp and reinforce +1agi. Its not a tactical fight in the slightest, its almost 100% "who's dice sucked harder?"

Both Nym and Miranda are deadly but theyre also squishy when focused. I never feared Nym in the GeniusBomblett era because he was laughably predictable, i'm not going to fear him with trajsim. He's not hard to pop in a single round of combat, despite his health.

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3 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I flew Nymranda against a good local player last night.  I am an actively poor Miranda player (I tend to get her trapped and demolished), and it was literally the first time I've flown a Scurrg.  The player asked me to fly the list against him as part of his Regionals/SO prep.  He was flying a QD, OL, Deadeye Rho list.

He pulled off two really good blocks, one of them resulting in good shots against Miranda.  Nym soloed the Rho in two rounds ... a Bomblet for two hits, a Harpoon, then a TLT followup as the Rho desperately fled.  Miranda Cluster Bombed OL, and Nym finished OL with a Bomblet.  Nym did die to a perfect QD retaliation shot (and a point from his own Bomblet), but at that point it was QD with three HP versus Miranda with no damage (and unused Harpoons), and he conceded.

The game was not even close ... again, I had literally zero experience with the list, and he's been flying his list for a month.  I didn't fly well, and he did.  Dice were on my side, but only on the attacks against Miranda, and she ended up at full HP anyway.  I tend to be a pessimistic player, constantly envisioning ways in which I can lose games, but in this game there was simply never a doubt in my mind, from the second I saw his list.  Not even a flicker of any way in which I could lose.

It's an oppressive list, and it was not fun for me to fly or for him to fly against.  I don't know how he felt about it, but I felt like it was an hour of my life wasted.

How does this keep happening?

All lists are not equal. You had a list that's very strong against his. Sometimes a list is so advantaged, it doesn't mean as much if the other player is better. 

The sky is not falling. I've been playing against this for about a month. Something I do with whatever I'm flying against Nym/Miranda is spread the obstacles about 1.5 range apart so you can maneuver a large base through it. Fly away from them, around the rocks until they try to cut you off through the obstacles. If they bite, this breaks up their firing arcs. Otherwise, as you're flying away from them, make sure you're staggering your ships so two can cut in and flank if they catch up to the one in back. If you fly patiently and wait for a good time to cut in, this really pays off dividends. Fly Autothrusters to give yourself longevity against TLT.

If you don't like the slow, methodical approach, Dash/Miranda is also very good against it. Lone Wolf does a lot of work defensively. Just go after Nym with Dash and use Miranda to bait. Don't get Dash shot at by more than one ship at a time and fly him with Countermeasures in case he gets pinched. 

Edited by AceWing
Unclear explanation

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I was at regionals this weekend and faced a Nym Miranda when we were both 5-0 in swiss. (my opponent went on to win)

I made some mistakes that cost me the game and I should have had him (end of game nym was dead Miranda was on 1 hull). My opponent was just an extremely good pilot I misjudge when he would turn into me leaving my gunboat and quickdraw clumped to eat a proton bomb toss (I charged both ships in hard thinking he would not turn in as he could not reach me with a bomb if i slow rolled, he outguessed me) and later in the game I guessed wrong on what way Miranda was going to turn leaving me without a shot from my Backdraft.... change either of my 2 mistakes and I probably win. I had never faced it before and learnt allot. Walked out of that game feeling like I was beaten by the player flying the list not the list.

Is it good? yes
Is it unbeatable? **** no.

after the regionals on the weekend, I left feeling like the meta is wide open without a clear uber list.

You people on this forum whine so much its unbelievably annoying and ends up having me leave the forums for big chunks because I cant take the whining bull.

Maybe this is just another time where "get good" is actually the correct answer to peoples complaining.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I was at regionals this weekend and faced a Nym Miranda when we were both 5-0 in swiss. (my opponent went on to win)

I made some mistakes that cost me the game and I should have had him (end of game nym was dead Miranda was on 1 hull). My opponent was just an extremely good pilot I misjudge when he would turn into me leaving my gunboat and quickdraw clumped to eat a proton bomb toss (I charged both ships in hard thinking he would not turn in as he could not reach me with a bomb if i slow rolled, he outguessed me) and later in the game I guessed wrong on what way Miranda was going to turn leaving me without a shot from my Backdraft.... change either of my 2 mistakes and I probably win. I had never faced it before and learnt allot. Walked out of that game feeling like I was beaten by the player flying the list not the list.

Is it good? yes
Is it unbeatable? **** no.

after the regionals on the weekend, I left feeling like the meta is wide open without a clear uber list.

You people on this forum whine so much its unbelievably annoying and ends up having me leave the forums for big chunks because I cant take the whining bull.

Maybe this is just another time where "get good" is actually the correct answer to peoples complaining.

 

 

Perfectly said!

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2 hours ago, Knave Squawk said:

Are you sure the initial statement is true? A lot of the streams showed Nym + Miranda but a quick glance at regional winners for the last few months looks like Imperial Aces are dominant, especially Quickdraw and Vader. There was a lot of PS11 QD flying around, who can move out of the way of drop on reveal and Genius / Trajectory bombs. 

PIttsburgh Regional - Palp Aces (Duncan)

Cesena, Emilia-Romagna (Italy) - Dash / Nym

Dutch Nationals - Palp Aces

Fresno Regional - Palp Aces (Palpoons)

Austin Regional - QD + Gunboats

Cardiff - Nym/Miranda

Grosseto / Toscana / Italy Regional - Vader / Gunboat / QD

Salt Lake City - Dash / Poe

Tricity Regionals - Fenn Rau / Kulda / Thweek

Calgary - Nym/Miranda

Linkoping - Vader / QD / Pure Sabacc

Nymiranda won Salt Lake Regionals. Dash/Poe only made the top 4. The final match would have been a Nymiranda mirror match except for some incredibly lucky crit draws and dice rolls in one of the semi final games, dropping Miranda to PS0 and allowing a 1-health Jess to finish her off before she could fire/regen. 

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It's not always about what is unbeatable, but rather about what is easier to execute and more forgiving concerning errors.

As stated before, this list is quite an obvious selection of cards. So it is easy to come up with (many ppl play it), initially covers many relevant aspects of the game (so many ppl play it) and as I read it seems easy to fly decently (a good result at the tournament). 

Conclusions are a bit early, aren't they. Now this list is to be expected. How to deal with it will get figured out eventually. If this doesn't happen in a few weeks, maybe then the time is ripe for some good whining, but now already? 

 

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On the one hand, it's early to say that Nymranda is the New Triple Jumps.

However, pretty much all of the elements of it are things which have seemed "too good" for a while, or at least from as soon as they were published.  TLT/Sabine Miranda has been top-tables since a bit before World 2016.  Harpoons are arguably more powerful than missiles which are more expensive.  Nym has been doing broken things with bombs from the instant he was printed, so much so that he got one of the FASTEST nerfs in X-Wing with the Genius errata.  On top of everything, Veterans Instincts might be a fundamental problem for ship design.

I doubt we need a Torpedos-and-Droid level nerf, but we need little chips at things.  Miranda no longer usable on turrets at least (I'd start here, investigate Missiles later), so that she's got to chose between regen and damage--which was the entire point of her pilot ability anyhow.  Probably eliminate the TLT/"Harpooned!" interaction, and maybe find some errata to make TLT a little bit weaker, but more interesting (two attacks in arc only?).  Harpoons at 5 points still probably get played half the time, but it becomes then an actual choice in list building.

Harpoons are the big one to me, since it isn't necessarily that they're unbeatable, or too powerful, but that they're substantially stronger than potential replacements.  At 5 points, the arguments that Homing can do more damage against a target like Asajj, or that Concussion are cheaper, become real.  But a lot of lists probably still fly Harpoon, since they'd still probably be the strongest missile.  But it's not simply "Harpoon is the obvious best missile 95% of the time" if it's priced in line with other existing missiles.  Some lists, some upgrades will always be better than others.  That doesn't mean that a game shouldn't try to make that difference as small as it can.

//

Alternately, maybe the format needs to change.  I'm curious about the multi-podcaster objective format.  Maybe that's what's needed to prevent the dominance of ships like Miranda and Nym.  I dunno.  I'll have to feel some of it out sometime.

 

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2 hours ago, Icelom said:

I was at regionals this weekend and faced a Nym Miranda when we were both 5-0 in swiss. (my opponent went on to win)

I made some mistakes that cost me the game and I should have had him (end of game nym was dead Miranda was on 1 hull). My opponent was just an extremely good pilot I misjudge when he would turn into me leaving my gunboat and quickdraw clumped to eat a proton bomb toss (I charged both ships in hard thinking he would not turn in as he could not reach me with a bomb if i slow rolled, he outguessed me) and later in the game I guessed wrong on what way Miranda was going to turn leaving me without a shot from my Backdraft.... change either of my 2 mistakes and I probably win. I had never faced it before and learnt allot. Walked out of that game feeling like I was beaten by the player flying the list not the list.

Is it good? yes
Is it unbeatable? **** no.

after the regionals on the weekend, I left feeling like the meta is wide open without a clear uber list.

You people on this forum whine so much its unbelievably annoying and ends up having me leave the forums for big chunks because I cant take the whining bull.

Maybe this is just another time where "get good" is actually the correct answer to peoples complaining.

 

 

Man I love your attitude!

Unfortunately most of nerf-herders are just circle-jerking about  nerf-ideas instead of talking about viable strategies or concepts of lists countering prevalent meta picks.
As it stands meta of X-Wing was never more diverse - there are many archetypes, all factions are playable, in my local scene there is multitude of interesting lists of all three factions.

Stop whining on the forum while sitting in front of screen and start to play this game!

Edited by Embir82

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2 hours ago, Embir82 said:

There is ton of things that counter Nymranda. As usual overreaction on the side of the community. Instead of crying about imbalance it is much better to figure out what counters flavour of the month.

I wonder why none of those counters made the Top 16 at Cardiff? Considering the sheer volume of people flying Nymranda, you'd think that people flying those so-called 'counters' would have done pretty well. Or maybe it's not that cut-and-dry?

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1 minute ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I wonder why none of those counters made the Top 16 at Cardiff? Considering the sheer volume of people flying Nymranda, you'd think that people flying those so-called 'counters' would have done pretty well. Or maybe it's not that cut-and-dry?

I think most of the players running counter lists were planning to counter harpoon gunboats. I saw lots of 3 ship rebels lists, lots of Poe and not many gunboats.

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3 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I wonder why none of those counters made the Top 16 at Cardiff? Considering the sheer volume of people flying Nymranda, you'd think that people flying those so-called 'counters' would have done pretty well. Or maybe it's not that cut-and-dry?

And maybe players using Nymranda were just simply good pilots?
As it stands last regional in Poland won Rey & Poe. Earlier this month another regio in Poland was won by Miranda & Dash, last SOS was won by Palp Aces whuch by the way demolished Nymranda if u watched the stream.

Yeah sky is falling and it is time to cry about imbalance instead of thinking outside the box or just enjoy game as it is.

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45 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

As it stands last regional in Poland won Rey & Poe. Earlier this month another regio in Poland was won by Miranda & Dash, last SOS was won by Palp Aces whuch by the way demolished Nymranda if u watched the stream.

Yes, but I don't think that just them winning the regional was the problem. 7/8 of the top squads were Nymranda, and ALL of the Top 4 were. None of the lists you mentioned were even close to that, even if they won. But keep on raging at the haters man, everything is fine.

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16 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Yes, but I don't think that just them winning the regional was the problem. 7/8 of the top squads were Nymranda, and ALL of the Top 4 were. None of the lists you mentioned were even close to that, even if they won. But keep on raging at the haters man, everything is fine.

It's one weekend, man. Relax. It was a good call and caught many people off guard. People will certainly be better prepared next time. 

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1 hour ago, Embir82 said:

And maybe players using Nymranda were just simply good pilots?
As it stands last regional in Poland won Rey & Poe. Earlier this month another regio in Poland was won by Miranda & Dash, last SOS was won by Palp Aces whuch by the way demolished Nymranda if u watched the stream.

Yeah sky is falling and it is time to cry about imbalance instead of thinking outside the box or just enjoy game as it is.

The NymMiranda build in the San Antonio Systems Open was the least optimized version.  All of the top placing ones in Cardiff Regional were Proton/Thermal bomb Nym with TS.  AC Yaeger at San Antonio was running Bomblet + TS.  The Palp Aces Player *at worst* had to worry about one TS flung bomblet of which one dice he could Palp to a blank for a total of two damage (1 + Sabine).

That game would have been *ENTIRELY* different if John from the Barons had to worry about his Inquisitor eating a non-avoidable proton bomb flung out the front and possibly dying in one shot.  Same thing with QD eating proton bombs under the shields. 

Edited by viedit

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