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Tie Avenger, please...

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2 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

There are plenty of mechanics the Empire doesn't have access to that make sense on the Avenger. Bullseye arc was just introduced. And in the online X-Wing vs Tie Fighter game the Avenger shields could regen faster than previous games. So a shield regen title with lower shield total makes sense, 2 or even 1 

3 red 3 green 3 hull 1 shield, end of round may regen a shield but has the corran  can't attack next turn effect. Something like that to be an imp ray shield

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5 hours ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

3 red 3 green 3 hull 1 shield, end of round may regen a shield but has the corran  can't attack next turn effect. Something like that to be an imp ray shield

Should have two shields and should regen two shields if it has to give up an attack for that. The current shield regen would regen 2 shields and attack twice in two turns, while you idea would make the ship attack ones and regen 1 shield in two turns. That would rather weak even when you consider that it does lose shields not as easily. 

And either way, I don't think the game needs more regen. At all. 
Bullseye free beam weapon hit sounds actually fun. Equip one beam weapon, jamming, tractor whatever, and allow those as free attack or even just downright apply the weapon effects, but only in the bullseye arc. Perfect TIE-Avenger imho. 

 

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What do you people think on the Avenger's full name type being [TIE Advanced "Avenger"]?

Reasoning:

  • Most of the time, they were called TIE Advanced in the lore. They are supposed to be the production model of Vader's prototype "TIE Advanced".
  • They could use the TIE/x1 title and the Advanced Targeting Computer. These cards could come in the pack, so people wouldn't need to get the Raider for their old TIE Advanceds. (They would still have a reason to get the Raider if they want to field both a TIE Advanced and a TIE "Avenger", since there is only one copy of each in the pack)
    If they are going to be able to get TIE/x1 title, then we need to overcost them by 3-4 points.
  • They could be docked to a Gozanti.
  • A second title (a la gunboat or defender) "TIE/ad", that is TIE "Avenger" only that adds the rule about equipping a free beam weapon with extra cool rules like the bullseye thing, or the thing about not cancelling attack dice.

With this, you could equip this ship in several ways. With TIE/x1 you get a system slot and discount to it, and extra damage if you equip the Advanced Targeting Computer. With the TIE/ad you can go for a control-while-still-damaging-but-less build. Since we would overcost the frame by 3-4 points to account for the free system in one of the titles, we could do add something worth that much on the other title, or make it have a negative cost.

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33 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

What do you people think on the Avenger's full name type being [TIE Advanced "Avenger"]?

Reasoning:

  • Most of the time, they were called TIE Advanced in the lore. They are supposed to be the production model of Vader's prototype "TIE Advanced".
  • They could use the TIE/x1 title and the Advanced Targeting Computer. These cards could come in the pack, so people wouldn't need to get the Raider for their old TIE Advanceds. (They would still have a reason to get the Raider if they want to field both a TIE Advanced and a TIE "Avenger", since there is only one copy of each in the pack)
    If they are going to be able to get TIE/x1 title, then we need to overcost them by 3-4 points.
  • They could be docked to a Gozanti.
  • A second title (a la gunboat or defender) "TIE/ad", that is TIE "Avenger" only that adds the rule about equipping a free beam weapon with extra cool rules like the bullseye thing, or the thing about not cancelling attack dice.

With this, you could equip this ship in several ways. With TIE/x1 you get a system slot and discount to it, and extra damage if you equip the Advanced Targeting Computer. With the TIE/ad you can go for a control-while-still-damaging-but-less build. Since we would overcost the frame by 3-4 points to account for the free system in one of the titles, we could do add something worth that much on the other title, or make it have a negative cost.

That's a very good idea.

(you can put regen in the other title, for like 1 cost).

Edited by Odanan

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On 1/19/2018 at 1:40 AM, Azrapse said:

What do you people think on the Avenger's full name type being [TIE Advanced "Avenger"]?

Reasoning:

  • Most of the time, they were called TIE Advanced in the lore. They are supposed to be the production model of Vader's prototype "TIE Advanced".
  • They could use the TIE/x1 title and the Advanced Targeting Computer. These cards could come in the pack, so people wouldn't need to get the Raider for their old TIE Advanceds. (They would still have a reason to get the Raider if they want to field both a TIE Advanced and a TIE "Avenger", since there is only one copy of each in the pack)
    If they are going to be able to get TIE/x1 title, then we need to overcost them by 3-4 points.
  • They could be docked to a Gozanti.
  • A second title (a la gunboat or defender) "TIE/ad", that is TIE "Avenger" only that adds the rule about equipping a free beam weapon with extra cool rules like the bullseye thing, or the thing about not cancelling attack dice.

With this, you could equip this ship in several ways. With TIE/x1 you get a system slot and discount to it, and extra damage if you equip the Advanced Targeting Computer. With the TIE/ad you can go for a control-while-still-damaging-but-less build. Since we would overcost the frame by 3-4 points to account for the free system in one of the titles, we could do add something worth that much on the other title, or make it have a negative cost.

Seems overly complicated.  Just give it the System Upgrade and cost it properly.  The ATC was used to offset the fact that the basic TIE Advanced was too weak with only a 2 Red Primary.  Just give the Avenger 3 red dice, and avoid all the extra cardage.  Giving a ship a "Must use" card isn't a feature, it's a patch.  It's like the A-Wing.  They were too expensive.  But all that Chardaan did was make Missile A-Wings even more rare, and Missile A-Wings really really overcosted instead of just really overcosted.   Similarly, all the x1 title does is force TIE Advanced players to use their actions on Target Locks.  That's not a benefit.  What if having an Evade, or doing a Barrel Roll (etc) might be better, but you need the TL in order to "just actually be efficient when attacking?" 

Hard "No" on this idea.  Subjecting a new ship to the "fix" for an old ship isn't a good thing in any way, shape or form. Just make it properly the first time based on the current mechanics.

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So... now that X-Wing 2.0 is out, and the TIE Silencer has been put into a whole different faction from the Imperials, are any of y'all's hopes any brighter for the Avenger to join the fight? I'll be honest, I didn't really pay much attention to that ship, but seeing everyone's collective love for it has made me more eager to see it in action, and playing X-Wing is the only way I get to see Star Wars fighters fly these days.

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On 1/14/2018 at 6:42 PM, DampfGecko said:

Absolutely in favour of this. Come to think of it- how can it be given its own unique niche?

Given that the Silencer is, as a base chassis, already situated between the Defender and the Interceptor (which is where I'd have put the Avenger before). So, what to do with it?

 

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From Wookiepedia:

The TIE Avenger's primary role was space superiority or starfighter interception. The Avenger excelled in this role: during the Galactic Civil War, no Rebel Alliance fighter could out-run or outmaneuver the Avenger. In the right hands, it could outmatch its intended replacement, the TIE Defender, as the Avenger's small size made it a more difficult target and afforded it better maneuverability, and as the Defender's large tri-wing design introduced several blind spots.[3] When coupled with the tractor beam weapon, the Avenger was even more deadly.

 

We know we wouldn't get any PS9's, but playing around with effects based on speed, both in upgrades and pilot abilities could be a lot of fun (think the idea behind the /x7)?

 

the silencer is a different faction now so filling the same role is fine.

much like the 2 factions having z95s is fine or x-wings and khiraxz are close.

we dont want all factions identical, but the first order blocking imperial design space is lame.

 

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I know there's been lots of speculation on how they might integrate the tractor functionality but I feel like that has to be what distinguishes it the most from the TIE Defender, since it seems like it's a lot of the identity. Being able to keep your opponent right where you want them. I want the ship in and I want that tractor functionality to be key to the ship, maybe similarly to how the tractor is integral to the quad-jumper, but applied differently. Maybe like Unkar's ability but up to range 1 in arc and only targeting 1 enemy ship (and not yourself). I also liked the idea someone else had of free hits on certain weapons in bullseye arc.

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10 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

I know there's been lots of speculation on how they might integrate the tractor functionality but I feel like that has to be what distinguishes it the most from the TIE Defender, since it seems like it's a lot of the identity. Being able to keep your opponent right where you want them. I want the ship in and I want that tractor functionality to be key to the ship, maybe similarly to how the tractor is integral to the quad-jumper, but applied differently. Maybe like Unkar's ability but up to range 1 in arc and only targeting 1 enemy ship (and not yourself). I also liked the idea someone else had of free hits on certain weapons in bullseye arc.

If anything, it would be a bullseye triggered tractor ability, likely used just for reducing a target's agility. Probably a focus-->tractor or TL-->tractor.  It would also be effective for friends as well, of course. That's really the most elegant way to make that happen.

Edited by Bad Idea Comics

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4 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

If anything, it would be a bullseye triggered tractor ability, likely used just for reducing a target's agility. Probably a focus-->tractor or TL-->tractor.  It would also be effective for friends as well, of course. That's really the most elegant way to make that happen.

I think something along those lines for a ship ability could be interesting. 

Integrated Tractor Beam

Before you activate, select one ship at range 1 in your forward firing arc and assign it a tractor token. If it ends up in your bullseye arc, assign a lock token to it.

 

Not sure how best to word that second part, but this might be too powerful just assigning the lock? 

 

Either way, I'd love to see a TIE Avenger in-game, with a 3/3/2/2 statline. Not sure about the dial, but something akin to the A-wing dial, with 2 Segnor's loops instead? Focus/Evade/Lock/Boost, Boost into focus. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Wedgeismyhero said:

Integrated Tractor Beam

Before you activate, select one ship at range 1 in your forward firing arc and assign it a tractor token. If it ends up in your bullseye arc, assign a lock token to it.

At the start of the engagement phase, assign a tractor token to one enemy ship in your \/ at range 1.
When you engage, if an enemy ship with a tractor token is in your | |, acquire a lock on that ship.

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It was fast and agile, meant to be a production version of the Advance, right? But it had 4 laser canons compared the the Advanced's 2.

So maybe:

3/3/3/2? Or 3/2/3/2?  It would definitely sit between the interceptor and defender, in a similar yet different spot than the advanced.

Now, I like the integrated beam, but handing out free tractor tokens in a standard \/ arc is too powerful.  Handing them out in || might be more logical.  No free target locks.  

I would love to see something like this as the ability:

At the start of the combat phase, choose 1 ship in your ||.  You may assign that ship a tractor token.  If you do, reduce your primary attack value by 1 for the rest of the turn.

That way, it balances the auto-hit tractor beam.  

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17 hours ago, CaptainIxidor said:

I know there's been lots of speculation on how they might integrate the tractor functionality but I feel like that has to be what distinguishes it the most from the TIE Defender, since it seems like it's a lot of the identity. Being able to keep your opponent right where you want them. I want the ship in and I want that tractor functionality to be key to the ship, maybe similarly to how the tractor is integral to the quad-jumper, but applied differently. Maybe like Unkar's ability but up to range 1 in arc and only targeting 1 enemy ship (and not yourself). I also liked the idea someone else had of free hits on certain weapons in bullseye arc.

IMHO, the KISS principle applies here.  Just make the integrated tractor beam:

When your target is in your bullseye arc, reduce it's agility by 1.  Forget about adding tokens to the mechanic.

The tractor beam was to keep enemies under the gun; losing agility is the same idea.

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2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, the KISS principle applies here.  Just make the integrated tractor beam:

When your target is in your bullseye arc, reduce it's agility by 1.  Forget about adding tokens to the mechanic.

The tractor beam was to keep enemies under the gun; losing agility is the same idea.

That's actually a pretty solid argument. I'd enjoy playing that. It's different enough from the Kimoglia and gives the Imperials a tool that they don't otherwise have (I could very much be forgetting about something, but it's similar to both Wedge and Joy Rekoff, but also different).

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The simple fact is that "Tie Advanced" was the name of the Project under which Tie/Ad from X1 to X5 were produced from the initial design provided from Darth Vader for personal use to the machine used briefly by the Empire for line units. The most successfull units was the Avenger Squadron who passed to X5 from the modified TIE Interceptor with shields and hyperdrive refits. With the mutiny of Grand Admiral Zaarin most of TIE Ad factories were destroyed and the newest starfighter mostly remained at his sole disposal. Admiral Thrawn gained the prototypes of Tie Defender (officially Tie Ad x6 and x7) which were instrumental to hunt down Zaarin, but become themselves a menace to front which he developed the Missile Boat and her SLAM drive tactics. In this regard old canon allow a lot of latitude for models and rules. Hystorically Lucasarts has several big problems in rendering the model for the graphic limits of the time, and the advent of multiplayer reality imposed a strong reduction of stats for Tie Adv and Def, both of which were scaled down first from Tie fighter game to xw vs tf and again from this to xwing alliance. This produced divergent informations in canon which only with the creation of wizards of the coast roleplay for star wars were setted down, by Lucasfilms itself intervention. Actually to understand the correct power balance for those fighter you should experience them in xwa. 

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1 minute ago, Odanan said:

After the TIE Brute (from Solo film), the TIE Avenger should be the next Imperial TIE. I really want at least to of these ships.

The Tie Brute, or Tie Heavy or Tie "Oblong" is prob one of the worst designs for a starfighter I've seen. It makes zero sense that a Tie can even move with such a heavy addition to its hull, and to top it off, its only on one side, throwing off any semblance of balance to the vessel with the weight issues. The Twin Ion Engines work because the craft is lightweight, this ship doesnt look at all light, let alone Imperial. It looks like something a rogue former Tie Pilot who got tossed out of the Empire would do to a Tie Fighter after joining a pirate faction, and should be considered a Ugly.

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11 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

The Tie Brute, or Tie Heavy or Tie "Oblong" is prob one of the worst designs for a starfighter I've seen. It makes zero sense that a Tie can even move with such a heavy addition to its hull, and to top it off, its only on one side, throwing off any semblance of balance to the vessel with the weight issues. The Twin Ion Engines work because the craft is lightweight, this ship doesnt look at all light, let alone Imperial. It looks like something a rogue former Tie Pilot who got tossed out of the Empire would do to a Tie Fighter after joining a pirate faction, and should be considered a Ugly.

Yes, it is ugly, but it appeared in an actual film, which means it will take priority over anything from a video game or any other medium.

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34 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

The Tie Brute, or Tie Heavy or Tie "Oblong" is prob one of the worst designs for a starfighter I've seen. It makes zero sense that a Tie can even move with such a heavy addition to its hull, and to top it off, its only on one side, throwing off any semblance of balance to the vessel with the weight issues. The Twin Ion Engines work because the craft is lightweight, this ship doesnt look at all light, let alone Imperial. It looks like something a rogue former Tie Pilot who got tossed out of the Empire would do to a Tie Fighter after joining a pirate faction, and should be considered a Ugly.

What about the TIE Bomber?

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7 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

What about the TIE Bomber?

The Tie Bomber was built from the ground up, and is scaled to be of equal weight in each pod, as well as a compensator for the ammunition weight. This increased the size of the generator for the ship, engines, as hull, which makes sense. The Tie Brute appears to suffer from Jedi Interceptor syndrome. All the function, but somehow no hull to represent how it can do what it can. It adds a small support column, and a generator to power the heavy blasters but not enough to power the other additional systems that would be needed to adjust the new size of the ship, such as a MGK-300 droid brain it seems to have, as well as the power cells for the firepower itself, new engines to power that half of the ship etc etc. The original lore for the Tie Fighter itself, is "Its a flying Coffin", basically, it barely has room for the pilot, let along the systems, and its all crammed into this ball shaped cockpit, and there you go. What Disney has done, especially seeing this ship, and the First Order TIE/sf is take a basic tie fighter that had zero room, and somehow now has the room for a shield generator, more powerful weapons, a REAR gun, a REAR gunner, stronger engines, a new special communication system, etc.. etc... and somehow cram it all into a Tie Fighter basic hull. Come on man, Im all for unique ships, but when they are truely unique and fit some level of realism in the universe they are representing. Its like saying the Jedi could take a piece of metal, and surf through space on it, using the force in all ways and take down tie fighters. We would look at that and be like, no... because it wouldn't fit with established lore, visual appearance of what starwars represents, and it would just be out there. This is just one more thing to me that I feel is just a bit out there without proper attention to details.

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