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BlodVargarna

Preparing for Nymiranda

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This can remove 2 TL on the Alpha strike and rince and repeat when needed, Han will soak more dmg then them trough Evade + C3P0, this can also kill Miranda in two turns. Han with Expertise can hit really hard.

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!36:220,-1,213,63:2:-1:;196:27,-1,148,254:39:15:&sn=HanoharPoe&obs=

You can also build a version with VI and Boost but you loose the Expertise punch... 

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!36:27,-1,213,63:-1:3:;196:27,-1,148,254:39:15:&sn=HanoharPoe&obs=

Edited by muribundi

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This is the list I am taking to my regionals. And I think it is pretty solid against the “cancer”.

Regionals (100)

•Fenn Rau (22) - Sheathipede-class Shuttle
Veteran Instincts (1), Flight-Assist Astromech (1)

•Poe Dameron (39) - T-70 X-Wing
Veteran Instincts (1), •BB-8 (2), Advanced Optics (2), •Black One (1), Autothrusters (2)

•Norra Wexley (39) - ARC-170
Push The Limit (3), •Nien Nunb (1), •R2-D2 (4), Alliance Overhaul (0), Vectored Thrusters (2)

Poe sheds locks, Norra has a bunch of hull and regen, and Fenn makes those harpoons unmodded, while also giving Poe or Norra another action. Not to mention, Poe is the same PS as Nym and Fenn is 1 ahead.

Edited by Fozzyman

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17 hours ago, FixB said:

I think you need to jump in range 1 asap and then kill Nym as quickly as possible

Against anyone except Miranda as a pairing, definitely. Possibly even against her. I've had Nym sicced on me a lot since he came out, and with a heavy swarm (5 x 3-dice primary attacks) he does fold satisfyingly quickly at range 1-2.

The problem is that trying to 'pounce' on Nym does probably mean eating at least one bomb plus sabine bonus damage, and getting range 1 often means losing shots to arc dodges or bumps. Throw in at least one PS-kill, and you can often lose more firepower in lost shots than you gain in range combat bonuses.

17 hours ago, FixB said:

Only go after Miranda at the beginning if you're confident you can remove her quick. But that'd be the preferred scenario! (Removes Sabine and regen).

Yeah. I've got a battle report thread with my games with strikers which essentially has 'Kill Miranda Doni First' written in increasingly large fonts. However in practice I keep failing to kill her, and if she gets away on zero shields you tend to never see her again. You can't chase her without bomblets wrecking your squad, and if you don't chase her she can come in and engage at whatever angle she likes with that bloody turret, recovering shields the whole time.

Quote

I want to try and kill Nym fast and hope I'll have enough firepower to still deal with regen-Miranda. My thinking is that, eve if I don't, I'll have at least killed something...

I keep thinking that myself - resigning yourself to losing is a bad mindset to be in, but figuring out a plan which should give you some credit before you're wiped out is a good idea given that it's a two-ship list where neither ship gives up any points until destroyed.

Losing one ship on the approach if both harpoons get fired is pretty much a given - and if you get unlucky with splash damage losing a second before you get a kill is not impossible. I think killing Miranda with 3 strikers is possible but really hard, and with 2 is kind of a joke.

Thing is, if you go for Miranda first, Nym will be engaging you from medium-to-long range, which is where he can lob bombs effectively and where he wants to be. If you ignore him he can do catastrophic amounts of damage very fast indeed.

Quote

Then, I think about slamming the Rho to get either a bump or range 1 and avoiding any vomited bomb, so I dial in a 3 foward and I launch Ryad and Vess in the midst of it as well.

That's the other thing I think I need to get used to; behind either bomber (especially nym) is a bad place to be, because the bombs could come in anywhere, but the fact that the trajectory simulator pegs it forwards speed 5 and speed 5 only means that, as you said, range 1 is safe from both harpoons and launched bombs, and whilst he could (if he bumps you) use genius to drop a bomb after bumping and hit you that way, Rebel Nym, unlike Scum & Villainy Nym, is not immune to his own bombs, and I suspect few players would be willing to have a 50-ish point ace voluntarily eat one of their own proton bombs.

Given the range 1 'blind spot' for nym, in fact, I'm surprised no-one's tried it with an autoblaster turret, giving you 4 saved points for a high-end bomb loadout and/or initiative bid.

 

12 hours ago, Captain Pellaeon said:

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/x1 (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Scrambler Missiles (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/v1 (1)

"Quickdraw" (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

Interesting list. I've no issue with Cruise Missiles over harpoons - as you note they speak for themselves - they have upsides and downsides.

What's more interesting is the choice of scrambler missiles. Taking Quickdraw's lightweight frame and packing guidance chips would increase the expected punch of quickdraw's missiles and then let the Inquisitor take cruise missiles as well - cruise missiles are brutal but not sufficiently amazing that I wouldn't rather have 3 than 2.

Scramblers are nice in theory, but the same argument applies as with harpoons - with only 2 ships and knowing you have the weapon, they're probably not in range 1 of one another meaning you're expending a 2-point missile and the potential for damage on an attack to apply a single jam token, which - especially if they have both Target Lock and Focus thanks to Long Range Scanners, may not even take out the target's target lock.

If you fire at Nym, you're the same PS (PS8 + 2 for veteran instincts) meaning  you may not, depending on initiative, get your scramblers off before they fire harpoons. If you fire at Miranda, it's (hopefully) a waste because the harpoons are probably firing at Miranda as two missiles can realistically kill her but can't reliably kill Nym (even though they do at least shoot at PS11 before he fires)

17 hours ago, FixB said:

I don't understand why we would have had Genius and slam bombs nerfed, only to give Nym a brand new tool, arguably even better :(

I dunno. On the one hand, I didn't see the interaction myself originally, so it's possible they didn't, but then I don't use - don't even own - a Scurrg or any bomb armed ships other than some TIE bombers, which I've only ever used as missile platforms. I can't imagine no-one spotting the potential in playtesting, though.

 

EDIT:

Drat.

Tried marking things out on a table, and even a range 1 pounce won't stop the bombs:

  • If Nym launches a bomb before moving then dials in a speed 1 straight, it's impossible to fit a ship into the gap between the trailing edge of the bomb blast and the front of his base.
  • If you're further back such that he launches a bomb after moving, the blast overlaps with the pre-move bomb launch (there's no safe spot) and the bomb blast areas cover any spot ahead of him out to range 3.
  • The wall of potential launched bomb locations covers an arc over the 180' ahead of Nym, and is thicker than a speed 5 straight template - meaning very few ships can jump 'through' it without a SLAM move.
  • Nym can decide whether to launch before or after moving at PS10, meaning in full knowledge of where any PS9 or less ships are.
Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Hi Folks, so my contribution to the Killing Nymranda party. :)

Countess Ryad (34)
Expert Handling (2)
Ion Cannon (3)
TIE/D (0)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Expert Handling (2)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Systems Officer (2)
Fleet Officer (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The idea here is that you setup on one edge, rush forward and try to turn in behind or at least side on to the enemy ships.  Countess with Ion & Glaive with a Tractor means you can hopefully get some controlling shots in.  Ion to make them predictable and then a tractor beam to kill their defense and to maybe put them on a rock.  The TIE Shuttle is there to provide Focus & Target Locks to the Defenders, Twin Ion lets it shed the stress easily and opens up more greens for the Systems Officer, you can then use Fleet Officer every turn, so you should have focus on your TIEs & a Target Lock on at least one that means the defenders are free to use their action for Expert Handling and stripping those Target Locks.  No target lock, no harpoons.

You can't really do much about the bombs, Trajectory Simulator on Nym is pretty broken.  That's what the rush is for, he can only fire them out the front, you still have to be aware that he can drop them out the back but that comes down to flying.

I've flown a variant of this before, not against Nymranda but it was really effective and loads of fun.

I hope this helps someone. :)

 

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12 hours ago, wurms said:

Throwing ion cannon turret on a Ghost may win this matchup, then you lose 4 others and end the day 2-4 or something. Its not just about beating this list, its also about beating all other lists as well. Are you gonna do enough damage vs quad wookiees? Can you handle 3 harpoon Nu's? Palp/QD/Inqy? Timewalk Asajj/Dengar or Nym?

No matter what list you build you're going to get unfavorable match-ups, i understand that you're forgoing a lot of long ranged damage by switching out TLT for Ion's but your damage is coming from the ghosts primary attack, not its turrets. Against something like  3 harpoon Nu's or quad wookies you have the PS 11 boost from Fenn to get out of arc. Timewalk Asajj and palp aces are probably a bit of a pain

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3 hours ago, UberMunchkin said:

Hi Folks, so my contribution to the Killing Nymranda party. :)

Countess Ryad (34)
Expert Handling (2)
Ion Cannon (3)
TIE/D (0)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Expert Handling (2)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Systems Officer (2)
Fleet Officer (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The idea here is that you setup on one edge, rush forward and try to turn in behind or at least side on to the enemy ships.  Countess with Ion & Glaive with a Tractor means you can hopefully get some controlling shots in.  Ion to make them predictable and then a tractor beam to kill their defense and to maybe put them on a rock.  The TIE Shuttle is there to provide Focus & Target Locks to the Defenders, Twin Ion lets it shed the stress easily and opens up more greens for the Systems Officer, you can then use Fleet Officer every turn, so you should have focus on your TIEs & a Target Lock on at least one that means the defenders are free to use their action for Expert Handling and stripping those Target Locks.  No target lock, no harpoons.

You can't really do much about the bombs, Trajectory Simulator on Nym is pretty broken.  That's what the rush is for, he can only fire them out the front, you still have to be aware that he can drop them out the back but that comes down to flying.

I've flown a variant of this before, not against Nymranda but it was really effective and loads of fun.

I hope this helps someone. :)

 

Unfortunately your Ryad dies before she can shoot even once ;(

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3 minutes ago, NABLA_OPERATOR said:

Unfortunately your Ryad dies before she can shoot even once ;(

I disagree.  I just have to fly better than my opponent.  Nym & Miranda don't have a magical ability that lets them change their move after it's dialled in.  So I setup my three ships in the start area facing board left or board right, use rock placement to try and create a difficult area for Nym or Miranda to move through, dial in my max speed moves and charge along the bottom edge, turn ship left or right and fly in through the rocks.  You don't have to fly straight at your opponent or into their bombing range.

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I lost to this list in Cardiff also (I had Rey Falcon & Poe) but went up against Ronan (one of the finalists) so I don’t feel too butt hurt! 

Rey got melted, mainly by concentrated bombs, harps and TLT. My positioning was poor so YMMV. 

Poe survived but spent half the game chasing a wounded Nym around the board trying not to get pummeld by TLT fire or (more likely) bombs.

In some ways the list is an ‘alpha’ list with the twin threat of trajectory simulator bombs and harpoons. Big HP ships can soak the bomb damage, but can’t dodge the missiles. Conversely nimble aces can dodge the missiles but get eaten by bombs.

After that exchange you’re into a TLT endurance battle. The chances are though you’re carrying Harpoon conditions (triggered by TLT) and / or critical hits against a pretty mobile list with regen.

Some counters to consider are to go with stress and ion. Neither Miranda nor Nym have great repositioning if stressed. Ion just to anchor them in place so you can get a hard hit in past their limited evade dice.

Sounds easy ‘in theory’ but you’ll still need that list to manage other threats (Rebel Fenn Rau, Poe, Auzituck gun ships and plenty of Imperial Gunships). 

At Cardiff Scum didn’t appear to do well but then again very few players seemed to be fielding any. There were a handful of starvipers, I think I saw a YV-666 and one or two Lancers? I didn’t play a single Scum list all day.

High evade stress/ion suggests Defenders. Possibly a Rebel list with R3-A2 and regen Poe?

High HP stress/ion might be Asajj + something. Not convinced her PS is high enough or has enough innate repositioning though. 

As someone mentions above Poe does seem reasonably resistant (AT, Black One, High PS) so if you’re rebels it’s probably a question of what to pair him with.

 

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Are TOs ruling that TLT can trigger harpoon conditions?  The NW regional has ruled the other way, as the RAW leads to complexity around initiative order.

Seems a few posts here are assuming that TLT triggers harpooned conditions ... I'm not sure that's a universally agreed state.

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So I flew against a this list and had luck with Poe, Wedge, and Fenn: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!0:27,-1,253:-1:20:;196:27,-1,148,254:39:15:;275:27,164,206:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Wedge Antilles (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Veteran Instincts (1)
BB-8 (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Fenn Rau (Sheathipede) (20)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Hera Syndulla (1)
M9-G8 (3)

Total: 97

Poe strips TLs and Wedge with the reroll from M9 packs a punch. Ps11 is also key to move after and try and control range. I also made Nym fly through rocks. I think that is the most important piece. If they can't line up straight against you they have difficulty getting bombs off. 

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1 hour ago, Dreadai said:

Are TOs ruling that TLT can trigger harpoon conditions? The NW regional has ruled the other way, as the RAW leads to complexity around initiative order.

Seems a few posts here are assuming that TLT triggers harpooned conditions ... I'm not sure that's a universally agreed state.

i don't understand how this gets through a small modicum of play testing without getting flagged as an issue to fix before they released harpoons.

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2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

So Nym can them Target Lock Poe and erase him with Poons. Your list needs at least 3 point bid. You’re better off with PS9 VI Poe so that you are guaranteed to be able to B1 the TLs. 

Naw man, Poe sheds the lock from Miranda with his own barrel roll, then gets to boost with Fenn's ability shedding the second lock. Black one has no limit on how many TLs it can get rid of.

 

Edited by Fozzyman

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6 minutes ago, Fozzyman said:

Naw man, Poe sheds the lock from Miranda on his own, then gets to barrel roll or boost again with Fenn's ability shedding the second lock.

 

I forgot about the coordinate, I like that. But you could only boost not barrel roll.

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4 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

I forgot about the coordinate, I like that. But you could only boost not barrel roll.

Right. But I have already barrel rolled at that point.

Edited by Fozzyman

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1 minute ago, Fozzyman said:

Nope...go read coordinate again. It is ANY action.

Poe doesn't have BR on his action bar w/o Vectored Thrusters. Your list had Autothrusters.  He can only BR with BB8 before he moves a green. Not anytime.

Edited by BlodVargarna

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4 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Poe doesn't have BR on his action bar w/o Vectored Thrusters. Your list had Autothrusters.  He can only BR with BB8 before he moves a green. Not anytime.

Correct. I misspoke above. Fixed now. Thanks for pointing it out.

Edited by Fozzyman

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I came up with the following list to counter Kylo Ren (more specifically, "I'll show you the Dark Side!") but was wondering with it's high health, some crit mitigation and turrets whether it might have potential against NymRanda:

Dash Rendar - Determination, Outrider, Mangler Cannon, Rey, Smuggling Compartment, Countermeasures, Burnout Slam

Chewbacca (original version), Rage, Inspiring Recruit, C-3PO, Millenium Falcon (evade)

Total = 100pts

There are probably many ways of tweaking this build to reflect your playing style but I think it has the potential to challenge whilst remaining at least semi-competitive against other list archetypes.  I think the best way to get it to work is to take advantage of the 360 arcs and the fact the two ships can operate independently of one another and try to find unconventional ways of flying them that will reduce the impact of some of their tricks.

 

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As others have said, high PS ion cannons have been working well for me against Nymiranda. I've been flying variants of this list for a while now, and I'm settling on this one:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!71:170,22,-1:34:-1:;193:27,22,-1:34:-1:;49:-1,-1,-1,-1,-1:35:17:u.95,u.40&sn=New Squadron&obs=

 

Double ion cannons means I can ion both Nym and Miranda in a single turn, so neither can drop "reveal" bombs next round. Fleet Officer for the double focus. And both being PS9 means I can strip shields with Maarek ion and primary, then Rexler ion before using Rexler's ability on his primary attack. I'm currently 2-0 vs Nymiranda with Imperial control lists, so they can be beaten, and it holds its own vs other lists as well.

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Instead of just building a list and thinking that is the counter to Nymranda, you need to get some actual tactical strategy against it or no list will do. Most lists are trying to out joust it, instead of outsmart it.

If you have not played against or with any Nymranda + Harpoon build, I suggest you get some experience.

Before the finals in the San Antonio System Open, AC Yager in 8 matches only lost 2 ships in the entire tournament (only 1 before the top 4). This is how nasty the list can be.

You cant just take a stress ezra/braylen either and think you will shut them down, because they are 1 agility ships, there is no guarantee you are going to miss that first shot. And with the fire power this list has, no guarantee that ship will shoot either. I played Nymranda versus my brothers double wookiees/ezra list. Miranda was out of range, but Nym wasnt, he fired with ezra and got 1 damage and 1 stress. No big deal. Next round, launch a bomb, 2 bank. Bomb damages all three ships and I TLT with Nym. Lots of damage that round.

Watching the system open final, Joel who flew the Palp Aces (Yorr/QD/Inqy) had great rock placement. From what I have seen, and experienced, fighting Nymranda is all about rounds 0-3.

afeiNfk.png?2

Miranda and nym came out with a 1 straight, followed by a 3 forward. Notice that debris, it prevents just about any good move Miranda has next turn. If Miranda did a 2 straight previous round, she would still be in the same predicament, a 2 sharp as her only good move, as a 2 bank would still put her either on the debris or land just in front and in arc of the lambda. Joel placed all three debris in this game, whether this was his strategy or not, it worked beautifully. He placed Lamba in that corner, and AC Yager setup opposite of the Lambda to take Palps out first.

Another tip to pick up in this video is the flanker, in this case Inquisitor. This is VERY important. After the joust, Miranda whats to skirt away to TLT and regen. That flanker keeps the pressure on. There is no k-turning because your ships were head on with Nymranda. No 2 sharps or 1 sharps that Miranda can slam away from or dodge arcs. The flanker slow rolls next turns to get shots on Miranda and limit her possible moves.

The lambda shuttle was MVP in the match. Its big base prevented most of Miranda and Nyms safe moves in the next turn. Miranda cant go 3 straight, bank right, etc. Small ships can be easily flown over, and then cluster mined (Miranda has clusters here).

Spoiler: Joel annihilated Nymranda in this match without a single missile and just two 3-die primary aces and a shuttle. It doesn't take insane amounts of firepower to beat this list.

Now, before you right my post off as junk, let's look at a previous matchup AC had versus the EXACT SAME LIST:

5OHSrZv.png?1

AC came out with the same moves, a 1 forward followed by a 3-straight. Notice the rock placement? Notice the shuttle? A typical stop maneuver Palp move. Look at all that room Miranda has to operate next turn. She can go wherever she wants. And she does:

bZWPHWg.png?1

A nice cluster bomb right on Quickdraw.

So its not about firepower. Close Miranda's escape routes and keep the pressure on her with a flanker or turret/wide/multi arc ship. Nymranda wants to joust you with those bombs and harpoons, so bait with a ship on the side you want to engage on (the side you placed rocks). If they dont line up straight across for the joust, then this should benefit you cause it will be harder for Nymranda to line up both harpoons and a bomb later on during the match.

With what we now know, I thought I would post a couple Scum lists (since they are all but extinct in top rankings at the moment).

List 1:

Manaroo (27) w/ Attanni Mindlink (1), Intelligence Agent (1), Rigged Cargo Chute (1), Tactical Jammer (1)

Thweek (28), Fire-Control System (2), Glitterstim (2), Autothrusters (2), StarViper Mk. II (-3), Virago (1)

Talonbane Cobra (28) w/ Attanni Mindlink (1), Scrambler Missiles (2), Inertial Dampeners (1), Engine Upgrade (4), Vectored Thrusters (2), Autothrusters (2), Vaksai (0)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Im going for the same archetype as Palp Aces. Manaroo places first, then Miranda, then your aces. Nymranda likes to joust, so set Manaroo on the side you want this to take place. Manaroo also supplies the big body like the shuttle and a threat Nymranda doesnt really want around. She is Talonbane's focus feeder and with Intel and Rigged Cargo can give Miranda a really bad time, and as she is blocking jammers kick in giving the aces an extra green against TLTs. Thweek is the flanker ala Inquisitor in the list, while Talonbane is the heavy hitter. Both aces move after Miranda, able to keep the pressure up.

List 2:

Thweek (28) w/ Fire-Control System (2), Autothrusters (2), StarViper Mk. II (-3), Virago (1)

Captain Nym (Scum) (30) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Twin Laser Turret (6), Bomblet Generator (3), Trajectory Simulator (1), "Genius" (0), Havoc (0)

Contracted Scout (25) w/ Adaptability (0), Intelligence Agent (1)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Similar idea above, the scout blocks Miranda if they cant kill it, letting the aces go to work. Intel also lets you know what Nym is doing to avoid genius bombs. Thweek flanks and Nym keeps the pressure on Miranda shutting off slamming areas with bombs and damage every round with TLT.

Most Nymrandas are coming in at 98pts. Notice I kept mine at 97pts. Great for thweek in other matchups as well.

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@wurms another great post. 

How would you recommend dealing with Miranda and Nym if you are running a 2 ship list, specifically Poe (non regen) and Chewie?

I've practiced too long with this list to change  lists for Saturday, so what I’m looking for is an idea about engagement. Chewie can last about 2 rounds to the combined fire of those ships, Poe about 1.  (I’ve gotten some experience with Nymiranda on Vassal but never in the wild). 

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21 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

@wurms another great post. 

How would you recommend dealing with Miranda and Nym if you are running a 2 ship list, specifically Poe (non regen) and Chewie?

I've practiced too long with this list to change  lists for Saturday, so what I’m looking for is an idea about engagement. Chewie can last about 2 rounds to the combined fire of those ships, Poe about 1.  (I’ve gotten some experience with Nymiranda on Vassal but never in the wild). 

I showed @BlodVargarna the cancer side.  I wanted him to know what he was up against.  

Edited by gennataos

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