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Darth Meanie

The Bladewing

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1 hour ago, Fort Defender said:

That's great! I love it! One thing though, 1 weapons disabled is the same as 2 because they are all removed in the end phase.

Dang!!  Maybe 1 disable token and 2 stress. . .

Or actually, if I make flipping he card an Action + Weapons Disabled, the gun would be down 2 rounds like I'm aiming for.

BTW, is the A/SF-01 designation new for the B-Wing??  I noticed it doing my research of the Bladewing.

XNsp02o.jpgYw0Xeuv.jpg

Edited by Darth Meanie
new idea

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4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Dang!!  Maybe 1 disable token and 2 stress. . .

Or actually, if I make flipping he card an Action + Weapons Disabled, the gun would be down 2 rounds like I'm aiming for.

BTW, is the A/SF-01 designation new for the B-Wing??  I noticed it doing my research of the Bladewing.

XNsp02o.jpgYw0Xeuv.jpg

Ok hang on.  I fire, then flip.  Next round my action flips it and give weapons disabled token which is discarded end of that round.  The following round, I get normal action and can use it.

So if you want this to keep it from firing for 2 rounds between shots you would have to add something like, "Assign this ship 2 stress tokens and then flip this card," to the bottom of the firing side and leave the action requirement.  The ship would have to perform 2 green maneuvers in order to get the action to flip.  Even then you can work around it with things like wingman and inspiring recruit.

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Here is the thing I like most about your idea.  The range 3-4 requirement almost certainly means it could only come in an expansion that included a range 1-5 range ruler.

And that means a "Rebels" themed epic pack with the Hammer Head Corvette model and a B-Wing model with this and possibly other B-Wing things to get them back into play.

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Never seen this in action, does it have a downside in the show? I have to believe that generating that much power would have to strain the ship systems terribly. It’d be like dropping a v12 in a volkswagon. Sure it’ll work with enough mods but step on that gas too hard and it’ll fly right out of your engine compartment. 

Basically if they made this don’t beat around the bush let people use it but put a HUGE drawback to it. Like after firing they lose all shields and all maneuvers greater than 1 for a turn. Obviously the shields don’t come back and late game wouldn’t matter but it would stop it from being a ****** alpha strike weapon.

Edited by LordFajubi

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9 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

Never seen this in action, does it have a downside in the show? I have to believe that generating that much power would have to strain the ship systems terribly. It’d be like dropping a v12 in a volkswagon. Sure it’ll work with enough mods but step on that gas too hard and it’ll fly right out of your engine compartment. 

Basically if they made this don’t beat around the bush let people use it but put a HUGE drawback to it. Like after firing they lose all shields and all maneuvers greater than 1 for a turn. Obviously the shields don’t come back and late game wouldn’t matter but it would stop it from being a ****** alpha strike weapon.

In the show, it needed a gunner for accurate aiming, and the prototype Blade Wing was depicted with several flaws.  In X-Wing, making it super expensive and limiting its potential targets to huge (or at least, large) ships only would be thematic and help with balance issues. 

Two relevant clips:

Testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NELo74udR7A

Blockade busting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3o_UpFn7E

 

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11 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Ok hang on.  I fire, then flip.  Next round my action flips it and give weapons disabled token which is discarded end of that round.  The following round, I get normal action and can use it.

So if you want this to keep it from firing for 2 rounds between shots you would have to add something like, "Assign this ship 2 stress tokens and then flip this card," to the bottom of the firing side and leave the action requirement.  The ship would have to perform 2 green maneuvers in order to get the action to flip.  Even then you can work around it with things like wingman and inspiring recruit.

Thank you.  Having trouble with the timing, and I like your idea.

11 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Here is the thing I like most about your idea.  The range 3-4 requirement almost certainly means it could only come in an expansion that included a range 1-5 range ruler.

And that means a "Rebels" themed epic pack with the Hammer Head Corvette model and a B-Wing model with this and possibly other B-Wing things to get them back into play.

I almost typed "Epic Only" but then thought with the doubling of agility, it's fairly useless against anything but Huge ships.  Sure, you could plug the Ghost or a VT-49, but 100/6 players are not going to bother with a 10 point "maybe there's a target," making it effectively Epic without a directed limitation.

I also was going to tie it to R3 and give it a 10 die attack.  Since SE only goes to 8 Attack (!) I decided to better the range.  But, as you pointed out, that also gives it Epic Only implications (which actually is fine).

10 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

Never seen this in action, does it have a downside in the show? I have to believe that generating that much power would have to strain the ship systems terribly. It’d be like dropping a v12 in a volkswagon. Sure it’ll work with enough mods but step on that gas too hard and it’ll fly right out of your engine compartment. 

Basically if they made this don’t beat around the bush let people use it but put a HUGE drawback to it. Like after firing they lose all shields and all maneuvers greater than 1 for a turn. Obviously the shields don’t come back and late game wouldn’t matter but it would stop it from being a ****** alpha strike weapon.

Well, the weapon wrecks the hyperdrive, but this has no downside in XWM.  Doubling the agility of targets mostly makes it a big gun for big targets only.  I had thought about the idea of Attack (TL): Discard TL to Fire making it harder to mod dice without action stacking.  I has also thought about the idea of reducing all maneuvers by 1 to a min of 1 (engine strain) the rounds after firing.  Although, having to shed 2 stress reduces maneuver options and effectively means you konked the spaceframe, too.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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How would this be for the recharge side:  "When you remove a Weapons Disabled Token from this ship, you may assign a Weapons Disabled token to this ship to flip this card.  Action: Assign a Weapons Disabled token to this ship."  So, you'd have to get the WD token with your action, which prevents your attack that turn, then after you remove your existing WD tokens in the end phase, you'd get one which I think wouldn't be removed.  I think the end phase opportunity to remove WD tokens only happens once, and while it clears all of them, if it adds another...

//

Whether or not it's balanced, but I'm not sure I dig the design.  It'd basically be a B-Wing which has a bigger attack than a Gunboat, but basically behaves in mostly the same way as the Reload action.  I'd prefer something a bit different.

Here's my go:

  • *Prototype B6 (title, 0 points.  B-Wing Only).  Your ship gains an Energy value of 1, but begins the game with 0 energy.  Action: Receive 1 stress to assign 1 energy to your ship.
    • So the title adds stress for Ibtisam or Keyan Farlander?  Spicy.  Or a theoretical Hera B-Wing pilot would have flexible green moves when clearing the stress.  Or Ten Numb gets the PS 10 to shoot before dying.
  • *Composite Beam Laser (cannon, 8 points, Prototype B6 only.).  4 Energy.  2 Dice.  Range 3-4.  When attacking with this weapon, you may spend up to 4 energy from this card.  For each energy spent, add 2 attack dice to your attack, and the defender adds defense die.  This card begins the game with 0 energy.
    • With one energy, your ship basically has a HLC that can crit, but adds a defense die to your opponent.  Max it out with 4 energy to throw 10 dice, and they've added 4 dice of their own.
  • And for the luls: *Sabine Wren (crew, 3 points.  Small or Large ship only.  No faction restriction).  Increase your ship's energy value by 1.  Once per turn, when you assign energy to your ship, gain an additional energy.
    • While small/large ship Energy isn't a thing yet, it seems like it could be fun to have some sort of a card to boost them, and a younger Sabine, the engineering prodigy who hadn't yet figured it it was bad to build weapons for the Empire seems like a good character for it.  So she's basically a Recon Specialist for Energy, and unique, because non-Epic energy has the potential to be scary.  Adding E2 and Sabine would charge the laser faster, but you've added 4 points to the cost of a B-Wing.  Not always a great idea.

There's kind of a press-your-luck aspect to this: how long can you charge your Laser before you shoot?  I think that'd be a fun sort of mechanic, which isn't exactly in the game of X-Wing right now.

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12 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Ok hang on.  I fire, then flip.  Next round my action flips it and give weapons disabled token which is discarded end of that round.  The following round, I get normal action and can use it.

So if you want this to keep it from firing for 2 rounds between shots you would have to add something like, "Assign this ship 2 stress tokens and then flip this card," to the bottom of the firing side and leave the action requirement.  The ship would have to perform 2 green maneuvers in order to get the action to flip.  Even then you can work around it with things like wingman and inspiring recruit.

Oh man.  If the B-Wing shot first, then someone like Airen Cracken gave them a free action to flip, they could shoot it every turn, as originally worded.

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's my go:

  • *Prototype B6 (title, 0 points.  B-Wing Only).  Your ship gains an Energy value of 1, but begins the game with 0 energy.  Action: Receive 1 stress to assign 1 energy to your ship.
    • So the title adds stress for Ibtisam or Keyan Farlander?  Spicy.  Or a theoretical Hera B-Wing pilot would have flexible green moves when clearing the stress.  Or Ten Numb gets the PS 10 to shoot before dying.
  • *Composite Beam Laser (cannon, 8 points, Prototype B6 only.).  4 Energy.  2 Dice.  Range 3-4.  When attacking with this weapon, you may spend up to 4 energy from this card.  For each energy spent, add 2 attack dice to your attack, and the defender adds defense die.  This card begins the game with 0 energy.
    • With one energy, your ship basically has a HLC that can crit, but adds a defense die to your opponent.  Max it out with 4 energy to throw 10 dice, and they've added 4 dice of their own.
  • And for the luls: *Sabine Wren (crew, 3 points.  Small or Large ship only.  No faction restriction).  Increase your ship's energy value by 1.  Once per turn, when you assign energy to your ship, gain an additional energy.
    • While small/large ship Energy isn't a thing yet, it seems like it could be fun to have some sort of a card to boost them, and a younger Sabine, the engineering prodigy who hadn't yet figured it it was bad to build weapons for the Empire seems like a good character for it.  So she's basically a Recon Specialist for Energy, and unique, because non-Epic energy has the potential to be scary.  Adding E2 and Sabine would charge the laser faster, but you've added 4 points to the cost of a B-Wing.  Not always a great idea.

There's kind of a press-your-luck aspect to this: how long can you charge your Laser before you shoot?  I think that'd be a fun sort of mechanic, which isn't exactly in the game of X-Wing right now.

Definitely a cool design idea.  Now I'm torn.  Oh, and about theoretical Hera:

vqgA9fU.jpg

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I actually think it should be its own ship much like the Tie Advanced Prototype.

Replace the <system> slot with a <crew> slot. Reduce the hull to 2 and shields to 4. Drop the points a little. As for the capital ship destroying superlaser I think it would be interesting as a unique <cannon> secondary weapon restricted to B-wing Prototype only that is discarded to make the attack. Of course that would likely make the ship an assassin in the standard meta. As for epic yeah something that strong in standard would be a problem for Huge Ships (just like Twin Laser Turrets are). But in being unique and less hit points It could get taken down more often than in standard so I think it would balance itself out.

But yeah just as another B-wing, nope. It is a different ship.  

Edited by Marinealver

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Also, instead of 8 vs agi*2, maybe a 3 dice attack and "if this attack hits, cancel all attack dice and deal 5 faceup damage cards" or something.  Honestly, I kind of think this is how munitions should have been done - harder to hit but massive damage when they do.  Thematically, a proton torpedo should not hit a TIE Interceptor, but if it does, just erase it!  And against a large base tank (labmda, hounds tooth, ghost), it should rarely miss.

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7 hours ago, Npmartian said:

What it needs is HotCop PS11 Fenn to guarantee the Opportunist trigger. After that, fill to taste.

Only if you need the superlaser to kill fighters. Otherwise it's a fully modified 5 die attack on capital ships.

Although, if you dont mind dropping a die...

Keyan Farlander (29)
Opportunist (4)
Collision Detector (0)
Linked Battery (2)
Gunner (5)
B-Wing/E2 (1)

Total: 41

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Guaranteed to hit for at least 1 damage, or else.

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Holy wow... 8 dice... that could potentially down a Starwing, and cripple a Miranda and Nym in one round extremely bad... goodbye current meta... I say lets introduce this card to the game... (extremely unbalanced new meta here we come!) I do think it's a good thing that the cannon and title are unique... can you imagine 3 of these? 

3 Blue Squadron Pilots + Prototype B6 + Composite Beamlaser = 99 Points...

First round, boom, the end.

EDIT: btw, with the XG-1 Assault Configuration, the Gunboat actually gets access to this too... so then people will hate you...

Edited by Wookiee_Slayer

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GOD I want to bludgeon whatever writer came up with a Superlaser B-wing over the head with a gaffi stick. Bad enough WEG stuck torpedoes on there when there's physically no where for them to fit in the first place...

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1 hour ago, Ambaryerno said:

GOD I want to bludgeon whatever writer came up with a Superlaser B-wing over the head with a gaffi stick. Bad enough WEG stuck torpedoes on there when there's physically no where for them to fit in the first place...

"Hans are we shark jumping?"

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9 hours ago, Ambaryerno said:

GOD I want to bludgeon whatever writer came up with a Superlaser B-wing over the head with a gaffi stick. Bad enough WEG stuck torpedoes on there when there's physically no where for them to fit in the first place...

that would be Joe Johnston in the early 80's. the B-wing was originally envisioned to use such a weapon during the concept phase of creation, but technical limits at the time prevented them from being able to show it on screen (the B-wing models didn't film well against the green screen, once composited into the shots they tended to disappear against the star field. so many planned sequences from Return of the Jedi using them were dropped.)

WEG put torps on them because they were described in the ROTJ supplementary material put out by lucasfilm back then as ship killing attack fighters, but they had no obvious anti-ship weaponry. the concept material would remain unavailable in the lucasfilm archives until the late 2000's, and by that point there had been too much stuff in legends made with torp using B-wings to change.

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Make the faceup (starting) side the inactive side. You need to spend an action to flip the card and activate the weapon, which gives you a weapons disabled token. Then the flipped (active) side gives you access to your extremely powerful weapon, but also makes you PS=0 and if at any point you are given a stress token the card flips back again, and firing the weapon gives you both a weapons disabled and a stress token (thus flipping the card back to inactive, even if you have an effect that immediately sheds stress).

This gives you not only the requisite turn between shots, but also makes you wait a turn before firing, makes it hard to keep a fast-moving target in your sights, and paints a big ol' bullseye on your butt while preventing you from using red maneuvers (or PTL) and forcing you to move first and shoot last. It also gives significant weaknesses (important for balancing such a strong weapon) in that stresscasters and other control lists have the tools to theoretically keep you in check and actually prevent you from firing. Hence, no need to force a two round cooldown, as the weapon is overpowering but unwieldy and your opponent is not helpless against it. Agency!

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11 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

that would be Joe Johnston in the early 80's. the B-wing was originally envisioned to use such a weapon during the concept phase of creation, but technical limits at the time prevented them from being able to show it on screen (the B-wing models didn't film well against the green screen, once composited into the shots they tended to disappear against the star field. so many planned sequences from Return of the Jedi using them were dropped.)

WEG put torps on them because they were described in the ROTJ supplementary material put out by lucasfilm back then as ship killing attack fighters, but they had no obvious anti-ship weaponry. the concept material would remain unavailable in the lucasfilm archives until the late 2000's, and by that point there had been too much stuff in legends made with torp using B-wings to change.

I'm well aware of why the B-wing's combat scenes were cut (in fact, I proposed an upgrade for it: Narrow Profile: Gain 1 additional defense die when an attack will hit directly on the forward or aft facing). However I can find no source corroborating that Johnston himself came up with the superlaser for Jedi. Everything I have is that it was dreamed up specifically for Rebels. At any rate, the B-wing is a crazy gunship even without it (there's no less than EIGHT cannon on the thing; four in the nose, one on each S-foil, and two in the main wing pod. Another upgrade I proposed was to trade the Torpedo slot for a second Cannon to represent this).

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On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:33 PM, nexttwelveexits said:

Make the faceup (starting) side the inactive side. You need to spend an action to flip the card and activate the weapon, which gives you a weapons disabled token. Then the flipped (active) side gives you access to your extremely powerful weapon, but also makes you PS=0 and if at any point you are given a stress token the card flips back again, and firing the weapon gives you both a weapons disabled and a stress token (thus flipping the card back to inactive, even if you have an effect that immediately sheds stress).

This gives you not only the requisite turn between shots, but also makes you wait a turn before firing, makes it hard to keep a fast-moving target in your sights, and paints a big ol' bullseye on your butt while preventing you from using red maneuvers (or PTL) and forcing you to move first and shoot last. It also gives significant weaknesses (important for balancing such a strong weapon) in that stresscasters and other control lists have the tools to theoretically keep you in check and actually prevent you from firing. Hence, no need to force a two round cooldown, as the weapon is overpowering but unwieldy and your opponent is not helpless against it. Agency!

So, after all this Weapons Disabled token nonsense, I figured "just write the card to say what you want the rules to be."  Duh.  Now, it simply falls into the category of "do what the cards says. . . " without needing to rely on "how should timing work?"  To wit:

thki2iL.jpg4j84NcE.jpg

 

Got the rules, made the model.  Time to play!!

vGGiHYU.jpg

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