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Some doubts on Lightsaber Mods

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I wrote up several other crystals that I posted on my blog a ways back:

http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/2015/12/merry-xmas-and-some-lightsaber-crystal.html

I've done a couple others, such as a kathracite crystal and a synthetic focusing lens, both intended to provide a "low end entry point" for PCs that want a full lightsaber as opposed to the training emitter but the GM doesn't want to hand out crystals that can be modded into kill sticks.  I'll post those up later, but neither of them are anything spectacular (which makes sense as they're both beginner options).

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2 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

I'd love to see examples of crystals with two colour like in SWTOR. 

That's not really necessary anymore, given that under the new canon, all crystals start out colorless and gain their color once imbued by a Jedi. 

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2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's not really necessary anymore, given that under the new canon, all crystals start out colorless and gain their color once imbued by a Jedi. 

Thanks I didn't know that.

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So here's the write-up on the Kathracite and Synthetic Focusing Lens attachments that I mentioned a few days ago:

Kathracite Crystal
Base Modifiers: Installing this crystal changes a lightsaber's base damage to 6 and critical rating to 2, and the lightsaber gains the Breach 1 and Sunder qualities.  If the crystal is ever removed, the lightsaber loses these qualities and reverts to its previous base damage and critical rating.
Modifications: 2 Damage +1 Mods, 1 Item Quality (Vicious +1) Mods.
Hard Points Required: 2
Cost: 6,000 credits
Rarity: 9 (R)

So with kathracite, the Legends lore says it was often used in training lightsabers due to its status as the weakest (and most commonly occurring) variety of Adegan crystals, but it's also still a kyber crystal which means to me that its baseline performance isn't going to be horrible.  It's got some decent mod options in spite of only having three of them, but at Damage 8, Crit 2, and Vicious 1 it's still a very respectable weapon in a fight.  And it's a bit less daunting than some of the other crystals for those GMs that don't mind handing out proper lightsaber crystals after the first or second adventure.

Synthetic Focusing Lens
Base Modifiers: Installing this attachment changes a lightsaber's base damage to 6 and critical rating to 3, and the lightsaber gains the Pierce 1 quality.  If this attachment is ever removed, the lightsaber loses these qualities and reverts to its previous base damage and critical rating.  If the lightsaber with this attachment is destroyed, the attachment is lost with no chance of recovery.
Modifications: 1 Damage +1 Mods, 1 decrease critical by 1 (minimum of 1) Mod, 2 Item Quality (Pierce +1), Mods, 1 Item Quality (Vicious +1) Mods.
Hard Points Required: 2
Cost: 700 credits*
Rarity: 6 (R)
*requires an Average (dd) Mechanics check and 350 credits to build

This spun off the notion of the Tapani lightfoil, which again is Legends.  Even though the notion of purely synethic kyber crystals has been debunked in the new canon, I still liked the idea of lightsaber focusing crystal that wasn't naturally occurring, especially for those lightsabers made or used by folks that weren't Force-sensitive.  It's also something a F&D character can begin play with, giving those PCs who want to focus on lightsaber usage a respectable weapon as opposed to the mediocre Ancient Sword or the stun-only training lightsaber.

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On 1/10/2018 at 10:19 PM, Magnus Arcanus said:

You will never match the damage potential of lightsaber against an autofiring weapon, especially the bigger, heavier ones*. My best recommendation is not to try. Autofire is one of the more contentious mechanics in this game and can very easily be abused.

*the caveat would be perhaps some sick Ataru Striker build that focuses on Saber Swarm.

 

lol the ataru from user would like a word with you. That form can easily match an autofiring weapon and even beat it cause it bypasses soak in the process.

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17 hours ago, Metalghost said:

lol the ataru from user would like a word with you. That form can easily match an autofiring weapon and even beat it cause it bypasses soak in the process.

The Ataru Striker "only" gets linked - so he must direkt all those hits against one single target. If he kills it, mega-kills it or monster-kills it does not make a big difference (apart from minion groups).

The guy with the autofire weapon can direct his attacks against everyone within range. Which is usually long range and not engaged range as with a lightsaber. Besides, there come at least two autofire weapons with Breach 1 to my mind.

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1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

Please cite page #

F&D Page 178:

Quote

Training Lightsaber:

Designed to train Force Users in Lightsaber use, training lightsabers are low-powered, non-lethal variants of standard lightsabers. Equipped with an ultra-low-output power generator and either a Kathracite or Danite crystal, a training saber produces a blade that, while posessing the same mass and energy characteristics of its full-powered cousins, does no lasting damage to living beings.<snip>

<snip>This lightsaber is a basic lightsaber hilt containing an unmodified training lightsaber emitter (see page 200). This crystal occupies two of the weapon's hardpoints.

Ergo, Kathracite is a Training emitter. 

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You cannot ignore half of the sentence, I'll fix that for you ;-)

You just said it yourself: ultra-low-output power generator plus a Kathracite or Danite.

Ergo: ultra-low-output power generator + Kathracite = a Training emitter.

 

Donovan's stats could represent a Kathracite with a standard lightsaber's power generator just fine.

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2 hours ago, Rogues Rule said:

You cannot ignore half of the sentence...

You'd be amazed how often he does just that to serve his own arguments.

As you said, the training emitter isn't just the crystal, but additional parts to make it extra-safe for trainees.

That said, I have considered lowering the Kathracite crystal's base damage to 5 and losing either one of the damage mods or the Vicious mod, to better account for it being "weak" in comparison to most other kyber crystals.  This would put it a point behind the default versions of the various lightsabers using the standard Ilum crystal for base damage, but again it's intended as a "starter" crystal until the GM feels comfortable allowing the PCs to get something with a bit more bite.

 

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2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

You'd be amazed how often he does just that to serve his own arguments.

As you said, the training emitter isn't just the crystal, but additional parts to make it extra-safe for trainees.

That said, I have considered lowering the Kathracite crystal's base damage to 5 and losing either one of the damage mods or the Vicious mod, to better account for it being "weak" in comparison to most other kyber crystals.  This would put it a point behind the default versions of the various lightsabers using the standard Ilum crystal for base damage, but again it's intended as a "starter" crystal until the GM feels comfortable allowing the PCs to get something with a bit more bite.

 

This is less egregious than his usual logical fallacies because he was half right this time, however it does seem to imply that you priced the katharcite crystal too high because you could just buy a training emitter to get one to use with a regular power generator.  Perhaps Kathracite should lose breach in favor of a few or maybe no points of pierce and have stats similar to your synthetic focusing lens? And then maybe danite gets your kathracite stats?   And if a player tries to assert "my training emitter was made with a danite crystal" the answer would be "technically you could make a training emitter using a danite crystal but then it would cost 6000 credits instead of the 100 credits it costs to make one with a katharcite crystal.  Since you didn't pay 6000 for your training emitter it has a katharcite crystal in it."

Edited by EliasWindrider

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I priced the Katharcite based on it's properties when compared to other lightsaber crystals, which all have the Breach 1 property and thus cost several thousands of credits.  I don't have the full listing, but pretty sure the vast majority of non-lightsaber weapons that have Breach 1 are military-grade hardware that's not nearly as easy to hide as a lightsaber.

Frankly, any GM that lets a player snag a Breach 1 weapon for the paltry sum of credits that a training emitter costs to acquire (much less build as per Endless Vigil) deserves all the headaches they get.

As a GM, I'd say that the process of installing a kyber crystal (kathracite or whatever) into a training emitter devalues that crystal to such a point that without it being in the training emitter, said crystal is worthless as a focusing crystal for a lightsaber, likely due to how it's been cut and sheared down to fight inside the training emitter itself.  It'd be akin to taking the bulb from a typical commercial flashlight and thinking you can stick it into a full-size floor lamp and it'll work just the same as a standard size lightbulb.

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9 hours ago, Rogues Rule said:

You cannot ignore half of the sentence, I'll fix that for you 😉

You just said it yourself: ultra-low-output power generator plus a Kathracite or Danite.

Ergo: ultra-low-output power generator + Kathracite = a Training emitter.

 

Donovan's stats could represent a Kathracite with a standard lightsaber's power generator just fine.

The power generator is the battery. It isn't a part of the emitter. So my point still stands. 

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6 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I priced the Katharcite based on it's properties when compared to other lightsaber crystals, which all have the Breach 1 property and thus cost several thousands of credits.  I don't have the full listing, but pretty sure the vast majority of non-lightsaber weapons that have Breach 1 are military-grade hardware that's not nearly as easy to hide as a lightsaber.

Frankly, any GM that lets a player snag a Breach 1 weapon for the paltry sum of credits that a training emitter costs to acquire (much less build as per Endless Vigil) deserves all the headaches they get.

As a GM, I'd say that the process of installing a kyber crystal (kathracite or whatever) into a training emitter devalues that crystal to such a point that without it being in the training emitter, said crystal is worthless as a focusing crystal for a lightsaber, likely due to how it's been cut and sheared down to fight inside the training emitter itself.  It'd be akin to taking the bulb from a typical commercial flashlight and thinking you can stick it into a full-size floor lamp and it'll work just the same as a standard size lightbulb.

That didn't address my point.  Renaming your kathracite stats to danite, and renaming synthetic focusing lens (or something similar, possibly weaker) to kathracite would solve both issues, instead of only the pricing the breach 1 capability issue.  The disparity between your synthetic focusing lens and a training emitter isn't too large to make that work with slightly altered stats.

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1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

No it doesn't because you don't get a training saber blade without using an ultra low power generator.

Yes, it does. First off, Kathracite and Danite are the weakest of the Adegan Crystal family of kyber crystals. Secondly, they wouldn't be the first crystals that don't have breach or Sunder, or are otherwise non-lethal. Look at the Kimber Stone, a much more powerful, but still non-lethal crystal. Third, the "Training Emitter" is a lightsaber crystal, and that is what page says specifically. It is not something you add a crystal to. It is a lightsaber crystal. And what does page 178 say training sabers use as lightsaber crystals? Kathracite or Danite. As such, the Kathracite (and Danite) crystals are crystals specifically used only in Training sabers as the Training emitter. The Training Emitter is a Kathracite (or Danite) crystal. Ergo, by RAW, Kathracite crystals have the same stats as the Training emitter on page 200 of the F&D CRB. 

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31 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, it does. First off, Kathracite and Danite are the weakest of the Adegan Crystal family of kyber crystals. Secondly, they wouldn't be the first crystals that don't have breach or Sunder, or are otherwise non-lethal. Look at the Kimber Stone, a much more powerful, but still non-lethal crystal. Third, the "Training Emitter" is a lightsaber crystal, and that is what page says specifically. It is not something you add a crystal to. It is a lightsaber crystal. And what does page 178 say training sabers use as lightsaber crystals? Kathracite or Danite. As such, the Kathracite (and Danite) crystals are crystals specifically used only in Training sabers as the Training emitter. The Training Emitter is a Kathracite (or Danite) crystal. Ergo, by RAW, Kathracite crystals have the same stats as the Training emitter on page 200 of the F&D CRB. 

Read the text if you don't give it ultra low power compared to a regular lightsaber then it doesn't give you a training lightsaber.  The combination of limiting the power to ultra low levels and using a katharcite or danite crystal is what gives you a training saber.  That's the RAW.

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5 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Read the text if you don't give it ultra low power compared to a regular lightsaber then it doesn't give you a training lightsaber.  The combination of limiting the power to ultra low levels and using a katharcite or danite crystal is what gives you a training saber.  That's the RAW.

To quote: 

Quote

This lightsaber is a basic lightsaber hilt containing an unmodified training lightsaber emitter (see page 200). This crystal occupies two of the weapon's hardpoints.

That is the RAW. A "training Emitter" is a lightsaber crystal. The "flavor text" says that the training emitter itself  is a Kathracite or Danite crystal.  Kathracite is a lightsaber crystal; one only used in Training sabers. Ergo, Kathracite is a Training emitter. The key point the flavor text is making is that Kathracite and Danite crystals are only used in training sabers as the training emitter because they are very, very weak crystals. As such, they don't get breach or Sunder. They are Training emitters. 

Also, from Wookieepedia:

Quote

Kathracite was the most common form of Adegan crystal, followed by relacite and danite. These crystals didn't focus energy as well as their rarer cousins, and thus were usually reserved for use in training sabers.

Also, Endless Vigil does have a lightsaber attachment that allows a normal lightsaber crystal to have a "stun setting": the Damping Emitter", which, guess what, lowers the power the energy cell supplies to the blade, 

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