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Radix2309

The Next LCG

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I also think Twilight Imperium is a likely IP for a new competitive LCG.  The consensus I've heard is fleet or empire battles.

I just don't have as many ideas for a fleet-based scifi card game that don't just recycle Conquest.  I would, however, love a non-Star Wars scifi setting card game.

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Not to be too much of a contrarian, but while I'd love to see a sci-fi game and wouldn't mind Twilight Imperium at all, I'd probably want it to be something that the boardgame doesn't already do well. So I'd prefer not to see empire battles, though fleet battles are perfectly fine.

Also, I have no idea how they'd go about accomplishing this, but I'm kinda hoping new LCG is not a dude basher. Netrunner was a rare game that was different from "play dudes, have them fight" mechanics of virtually all other card games. It'd be neat if it was replaced with something equally different.

I mean, living up to Netrunner in any way, shape or form is a near impossible task. Tacking on that mechanics requirement makes it in all likelihood literally impossible, buuut... you know. No pressure, FFG. I'd just like the best game ever, please.

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2 hours ago, Duciris said:

I also think Twilight Imperium is a likely IP for a new competitive LCG.  The consensus I've heard is fleet or empire battles.

I just don't have as many ideas for a fleet-based scifi card game that don't just recycle Conquest.  I would, however, love a non-Star Wars scifi setting card game.

I agree that the settings you mentioned are good for LCGs, with many factions and a good setting, but the real problem is more tied to how much these IPs are gonna sell. I often read people complaining about Terrinoth being too "generic fantasy and uninteresting", and the Twilight Imperium setting, for how much I love it, it's even less widespread. Talking LCGs means a massive effort in terms of promotion and diffusion of the products and I'm afraid none of these IPs is strong enough at the moment.

Then, I'll be more than happy to be wrong of course

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47 minutes ago, Julia said:

I agree that the settings you mentioned are good for LCGs, with many factions and a good setting, but the real problem is more tied to how much these IPs are gonna sell. I often read people complaining about Terrinoth being too "generic fantasy and uninteresting", and the Twilight Imperium setting, for how much I love it, it's even less widespread. Talking LCGs means a massive effort in terms of promotion and diffusion of the products and I'm afraid none of these IPs is strong enough at the moment.

Then, I'll be more than happy to be wrong of course

Android wasn't much of an IP either. With Runewars and the various other versions of the game they already have way more exposure then Netrunner did.

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8 hours ago, Radix2309 said:

Android wasn't much of an IP either. With Runewars and the various other versions of the game they already have way more exposure then Netrunner did.

There's not much left in Terrinoth. Runewars: boardgame is dead and buried. Descent is not officially dead, but there's no expansions for the game in what? 2 years? Apart from a couple of minor things done for the app. BattleLore is dead and buried. RuneBound is not getting much attention. The games set in Terrinoth that I consider active are RuneWars: TMG, Legacy of Dragonholt, and the just announced Heroes of Terrinoth. Not so sure how's the scene elsewhere, but here there's no one playing RW:TMG, while I've seen tons of people playing Netrunner.

Dunno. As said, I really hope to be wrong, because I like LCGs a lot, and I like these settings a lot as well, so, I'll be buying a new game set there

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3 hours ago, Julia said:

There's not much left in Terrinoth. Runewars: boardgame is dead and buried. Descent is not officially dead, but there's no expansions for the game in what? 2 years? Apart from a couple of minor things done for the app. BattleLore is dead and buried. RuneBound is not getting much attention. The games set in Terrinoth that I consider active are RuneWars: TMG, Legacy of Dragonholt, and the just announced Heroes of Terrinoth. Not so sure how's the scene elsewhere, but here there's no one playing RW:TMG, while I've seen tons of people playing Netrunner.

Dunno. As said, I really hope to be wrong, because I like LCGs a lot, and I like these settings a lot as well, so, I'll be buying a new game set there

When Netrunner came out, all there was was Android, a long game that can be fun but wasn't really popular.

Now with Genesis as well, Terrinoth has way more presence than Android did at release.

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18 hours ago, michaelius said:

Sure I'll revisit this thread when they drop Agot

See you in 2+ years? I get you're salty about restricted lists and power creep. It's ok. 

 

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17 hours ago, Julia said:

I agree that the settings you mentioned are good for LCGs, with many factions and a good setting, but the real problem is more tied to how much these IPs are gonna sell. I often read people complaining about Terrinoth being too "generic fantasy and uninteresting", and the Twilight Imperium setting, for how much I love it, it's even less widespread. Talking LCGs means a massive effort in terms of promotion and diffusion of the products and I'm afraid none of these IPs is strong enough at the moment.

Then, I'll be more than happy to be wrong of course

You had me at 'you agree!'  ;)

On Terrinoth, I kind of want an LCG to flesh out the characters and make a stronger bond with them.  Playing board game version of Arkham Horror then Elder Sign and Eldritch Horror, I never really latched onto any of the characters.  (Except "Ashcan" Pete for some reason - the dog maybe?)  The LCG, on the other hand, has me demanding - DEMANDING I SAY! - that the librarian be brought into MoM2 so that I can play as her exclusively.  Among the things I cannot explain, is why I resonate so strongly with her.

In Descent, to me, the heroes were really masks that felt easily swapped.  Doubly after the reboot when the character was independent from their prescribed deck - something that I've read people wish Imperial Assault had, and that I'm glad it does not.

With the original Arkham Horror and Elder Sign, the events were not particularly story driven.  As a result, it never felt like the characters had significant importance to those events.  Eldritch Horror created a more narrative experience, while Mansions did even more for that.  However, it is the LCG that really shines in this regard.

The way that the LCG's character specific cards (boon and weakness) really add depth to the characters and tie specifically to their backstory, grow the feeling that they are distinct and interesting.  Their deckbuilding limitations also add a unique feel to each of the characters, and to date, those limitations feel very driven by the character and not the other way around.

When the third campaign was announced and subsequent articles spoiled the characters, Ursula Downs and Leo Anderson were particularly uninteresting to me.  I had long felt (without realizing it) that they were just created to fill out the backlog of characters, and that they were both two-dimensional at best.  Upon playing the first 2 missions with those characters, they both play so uniquely and so in-line with their backstories that I am pulling my hair out with the knowledge that it will be another five months before I can finish their story.

Ursula races around the map, exploring and pathfinding to discover the secrets of the ancient culture.  As she races into new areas, she inevitably stumbles onto unseen dangers.  She uses her knowledge and wits (agility skill, technically) to slip away and press onward.  Leo, on the other hand, runs around the board cleaning up the enemies and otherwise lending aid to the explorer.  Some of that is how we build those decks and play those characters, but it is also the attention given to the building of those characters by the development team.

The novellas, too, are adding to my bonding with the characters.

What I want from an LCG set in Terrinoth (or in any of their settings) is that same depth and affinity to its characters.  I'm hoping for some attachment that makes me equally determined to play those same characters across Descent, Runebound and the miniatures game.

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Posted (edited)

I agree.  Out of all the Arkham Files games AH:TCG has done the most to make me care about these investigators.  I think there is something about making a deck that makes it feel more personal.  I felt the same way about building a runner deck in Netrunner.  Somehow it sort of made you bond with that character more than you would have otherwise.

They spent a lot of time fleshing out Android at this point.  The Worlds Of Android book was a fun read and really does define much of the stuff found in the card game and board games. Between that, the fictions in the card packs and the now reasonable roster of novels and novellas I'd say it's one of FFG's most fleshed out settings.  It has an already installed fan base from Netrunner, and rumor is that Android will probably get the next GeneSYS supplement.  Feels like it would be a missed opportunity not to put out a new LCG in the setting.  Though it would be prudent not to try and make anything close to Netrunner mechanically to avoid an almost certain unfavorable comparison.  I'd totally be into a AH:TCG style Android game.  The Android board game was all about Blade Runner style investigation and uncovering conspiracy.  Then Netrunner layered on the Neuromancer hacker versus corp angle to the setting.  Infiltration was a game centered more on an Ocean's 11 style heist.  New Angeles is Corp vs Corp competition.  So the setting can move in a lot of fun cyberpunk directions.

Terrinoth has the new co-op non-LCG game built off the Warhammer Quest card game system, which I will buy since I loved that game.  Also it's had tons of board games and mini games over the years to attempt to flesh out that brand yet to me it still feels slightly unremarkable.  I don't know exactly why.  I think it's meant to be generic fantasy by design (so that it has the widest appeal).  You'd think if any product would fix my issue with the Terrinoth setting it would be Legacy of Dragonholt, which I did play.  I did enjoy it, but it still did nothing to strengthen my enthusiasm for the setting.  Now Terrinoth also has the GeneSYS supplement, which I bought and am reading and still it's not inspiring me.  Maybe a game in the same vain as AH:TCG could help fix that for me.  Terrinoth IMO has had the most opportunity to shine out of all the FFG settings. It's sort of surprising they haven't tried to make it into a LCG considering they easily could have reskinned something like the Warhammer Invasion system or the Conquest system to Terrinoth. Now with Heroes of Terrinoth on the horizon I wonder if there's much of a market for yet another Terrinoth card game.  I feel it's more likely if they go this route that the LCG would be a faction based competitive game ala Rune Wars to distinguish it more from Heroes Of Terrinoth.

The TI setting is almost non-existent outside the TI board game and Rex. I feel like you'd need to test the waters with a less costly product to produce like a GeneSYS supplement.  At least then we could understand more what the TI universe looks like.  I feel like the setting has it's fans, but those games are gigantic undertakings to play so it's not a world you visit on your table often.  It could definitely benefit from an experience more bite sized.  Though it also feels like the bigger risk then the previous two options, which makes me feel it's way less likely.  Though I'd totally be curious and would probably buy into it.

The GeneSYS book reminded me that FFG also has the Tannhauser and Sovereigns of Steam settings, but to be honest aside from mention in the GeneSYS core book FFG seems to also have forgotten that they have these settings.  Their appears to be no games currently in print for those settings.  That's too bad.  The Tannhauser board game was actually pretty unique for it's time.

L5R already has an LCG so making another one in the setting would just be cannibalizing your audience.  Honestly I would prefer them to make more board games in the setting to capture the feel of the setting in a non-hobby game.  I'd totally be into a Descent or Imperial Assault type game set in Rokugan.  I wonder if some of the old L5R fans who didn't enjoy the new card game would be down for that as well.

If I was a betting man then I'd say Android is the most likely next setting for an LCG if they do another LCG.  Next likely is some sort of Terrinoth competitive game.  It's possible with the advent of their miniature games (and Star Wars Destiny as a collectible game) that FFG might try and retract a bit from the LCG model.  It does have it's draw backs.  Though the draw backs are mostly on the competitive side. The co-op LCGs are pretty comfortable with the model IMO.

Edited by phillos

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The L5R release - pre-release at Gencon in August, world wide release 2-ish weeks later, Worlds in November - was a knockout release for them.  I expect that will be their targeted strategy for future competitive games.  We'll have more time between now and then, so we'll see if 6-Packs-in-6-Weeks will be the new norm.

I think that they've been looking to replace the SW:LCG for a while, and expect that we'll see a Terrinoth one first.

For Android, I'm looking to the horizon of next year's GenCon.  I'm hoping the game won't focus on the same factions as Netrunner, choosing instead to let those things play out in the background.  I think criminal and police organizations will be the new factions.  I am hoping that the outcome of the Turf Wars at the final Worlds Tournament will have repercussions on the subsequent game.

 

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7 minutes ago, Duciris said:

For Android, I'm looking to the horizon of next year's GenCon.  I'm hoping the game won't focus on the same factions as Netrunner, choosing instead to let those things play out in the background.  I think criminal and police organizations will be the new factions.  I am hoping that the outcome of the Turf Wars at the final Worlds Tournament will have repercussions on the subsequent game.

 

Gang warfare would be cool, and would certainly be a focus of the setting that we've not seen yet except for a few cards in Netrunner.  Lot's of faction on the streets in the periphery of that game, and lots of turf in New Angeles to fight over.  I also just think adapting the premise of the Android board game to a card game like they did for Arkham Horror could be successful.  Investigate a crime and uncover a conspiracy. There are certainly lots of different types of investigators and crimes to explore in the setting :)  I really do love the theme of the Android board game even if it doesn't hit the table that often.  To me it kinda felt like L.A. Confidential meets Blade Runner.

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