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Radix2309

The Next LCG

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2 hours ago, Hannibal_pjv said:

New Android game has appeal, but will people get to it after get burned by Netrunner...

but Yep, Android universe is better known that TI is. So it could be. Android is Also more suitable to both competative and co-op system so there is room for one or another. For me TI Sounds more like competative Lcg format.

TI is almost certainly competitive. The biggest problem I think is how many different factions they have. But they could just focus on the original 6 iconic races and add the others as mini-factions of some kind.

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The issue with the end of Netrunner, even if it is ultimately not FFG's fault, many player's will feel that way. FFG will be playing clean up for a long time with them. I think another LCG in the Android Universe would be amazing. Not sure on the exact theme, but there is plenty of world to explore. They would need to step back and create a fresh new system, thought Objective Sets from the Star Wars LCG may make sense for an Android Corporation game-each player represents a different Corp trying to interfere with other Corp's agendas. 

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On 6/10/2018 at 12:55 PM, TylerTT said:

I want a sci-fi co op. 

I was hoping for a Fallout LCG based on the Arkham one but with the addition of usable loot.  (Similar to how Maximum Apocalypse does it.) At certain locations or after killing bad guys, you can draw Loot cards into your hand as you would draw a card normally. Then after the game, you can keep a certain number of loot cards as part of your deck for the next scenario. 

Sort of combining an LCG with a deckbuilding game. 

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15 hours ago, TylerTT said:

I did and the game has kind of a weak narrative compared to a co op LCG. 

Oh, definitely.  "Kind of" implies there was any.  ;)  It's just the only co-op, cyber-punk heist game I could name.  And we really enjoyed it.

For a new Android LCG, I'd like it competitive and set in the real world (well, their real world).  I'm pretty open to scope and gameplay, but I do want a clean break from the Netrnner game-space.  I think if they try to remain too close, they'll fail at both appeasing the old player-base and at creating a good game.

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2 hours ago, Duciris said:

Oh, definitely.  "Kind of" implies there was any.  ;)  It's just the only co-op, cyber-punk heist game I could name.  And we really enjoyed it.

For a new Android LCG, I'd like it competitive and set in the real world (well, their real world).  I'm pretty open to scope and gameplay, but I do want a clean break from the Netrnner game-space.  I think if they try to remain too close, they'll fail at both appeasing the old player-base and at creating a good game.

They definitely can and should have some elements of Netspace, but I agree they should primarily have it be real world. Make the Netspace a more specific mechanic that is only a facet of the overall game. Make it much more abstract.

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Here is my pitch

Co-op mode is a team of players fighting a scenario deck.

competitive

Two teams of two players fighting each other.

I want netspace to be a specific “faction” like shpears the in LOTR.

Net space - Runners

Sneaky stuff - Espionage

Fight stuff - Tactical ops

Edited by TylerTT

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Oo.  I could go for a tournament style competitive game that is played by teams of 2.  I doubt anyone (FFG or otherwise) will do that, but it would be neat.  I like 2-headed giant, and I want a version of that for L5R, but those are variants, not the regular play mode.

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Personally I want competitive factions  fighting each other. Mostly in the real world but with different ways of interacting. Black ops, politics, corporate warfare, and Netspace. Factions can have particular focus but still should at least have some defences for each of these avenues of attack.

Font just use the Corps. There are other factions as well, although you could just use the Corps.

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On 6/11/2018 at 8:01 PM, Dawngreeter said:

I think it's reasonable to assume Android universe will get a new LCG.

Why would FFG be interested in making another LCG when they can make more miniature games ?

There's opportunity cost to developing new game and marketing it so why waste those resources on low profit product when they could be used for something that prints money ?

Next one on chopping blocks is going to be AGOT - we are getting close to end of published books, there's only a few deluxes left, the Q&A team responsible for balancing seems to have been disbanded few month ago seeing cards from new cycle lacking even most basic protections from abusing them.

L5R will follow bit later as they need to get better return on investment.

After that FFG will be free of competitive LCGs with all those annoying little problems like balancing, playtesting or communities expecting OP support.
 

Competitive gaming will be shifted to miniatures and CCG.

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WTF? What makes you think Miniatures are more profitable? They have a higher production cost, they also don't fulfill the same niche in the market.

Game of Thrones 1st edition didn't directly follow the books either. After the books they will just follow themed cycles.

They didnt want to kill Netrunner and they aren't going to cancel either of their successful card games to make miniatures.

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5 hours ago, kempy said:

One word: X-Wing.

Ok so because there is one insanely profitable product, based on their most profitable property, miniatures are all more profitable. There are like half a dozen miniatures games, And they get about the same love as the LCGs, if not less.

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3 hours ago, Radix2309 said:

Ok so because there is one insanely profitable product, based on their most profitable property, miniatures are all more profitable. There are like half a dozen miniatures games, And they get about the same love as the LCGs, if not less.

Yeah, Armada is receiving 2 ships every 8 months or so.

Miniatures to card games isn't a really comparative trade.

  • Miniatures are much more expensive (to produce, and therefore to buy) than cards.
  • Miniatures require a much bigger time ration than cards.
  • Bigger play area too.
  • Their more recent miniatures games require the hobby element before playing; which is a turnoff for many.
  • A card deck (and accoutrement) can be dropped into a backpack and played at the lunch table.

We used to have card players (Magic, mostly) who considered miniatures games too expensive.  They viewed the initial investment as too great to get into a game, however, they were fine paying the same amount over a period of time on new card packs.

To be honest, I don't really enjoy miniature game play as much as card play.  That's not helped by the game fatigue I usually have by the end of a blow-out match.  I do like the lack of random (dice notwithstanding) that playing without a deck provides, but I'd rather not pick up maneuver templates and range rulers to see I can target something.  Plus, miniature games are really hard to play on Skype.  (Yes, I know of Vassel, but it just doesn't do it for me.)

Oh, and also I hate dice.  Playing against someone's hand, that may contain a counter, is a strategy question more than luck (to my way of thinking).  I love the chaos bag of the AH:LCG, but if the game were competitive, I'd curse it.

For me, big tournaments for mini games are insanely long.  I can't willingly go to one where we're expected to play (if winning) more than 4 games.  X-Wing is shorter, so it's more reasonable, but I still have limited interest for big X-Wing tournaments.  Card games, I don't have that limit.  L5R has 60 minuet rounds, and is on the high end for match length.  It's also easy to move from table to table with a deck box, playmat, and various tokens.  For minis, you need a fully formed game-plan.

TL;DR

Eh, way more than I should have written about minis on an LCG forum.  My point is that nobody thinks card games are interchangeable with miniature games, and that it's unrealistic to expect people to convert from one to the other to fit someone else's marketing strategy.

Edited by Duciris

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1 hour ago, Duciris said:

Eh, way more than I should have written about minis on an LCG forum.  My point is that nobody thinks card games are interchangeable, and that it's unrealistic to expect people to convert from one to the other to fit someone else's marketing strategy.

Pretty much agreeing with all you mentioned here. I do enjoy cards and minis bud these are really fundamentally different hobbies and don't appeal to the same population. Imagining that you can turn your customer base from LCGs to Minis and expect them to follow is commercial suicide. Cards are overall more popular and will attract a higher amount of players than minis. An important part of the benefits made by miniature game publishers are due to  the hobbyists who will buy the product for the hobby aspect and barely touch the game itself.

Now I'm not trying to be a fanboy of GW but the Runewars or SW minis FFG is producing are 15 - 20 years backwards in terms of design and quality when compared to what GW has. The material choice they made for it is weird: plastic incompatible with plastic cement, but not resin or metal that would have allowed much more details finesse and cheaper casting process. It's unpracical, not user friendly and will not help new player to join in. These don't come much cheaper either ( 25 USD for 8 minis, 3.13 USD per unit against 40 USD the box of 10 tactical marines, 4USD each). FFG is an absolute leader on the LCG market right now. When it comes to minis, the market is heavily contested between GW, Privateer Press, Mantic Games and Corvus Belli to mention only the major ones.  I really don't see at this point how FFG could make a substantial revenue without LCGs.

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