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Han shot first, listbuilding help

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Han shot first (97)

 

Han Solo (TFA) —YT-1300  46
Veteran Instincts 1
Hotshot Co-pilot 4
Baze Malbus 3
Engine Upgrade 4
Ship Total: 58
   
Poe Dameron (PS9)  33
Veteran Instincts 1
BB-8 2
Advanced Optics 2
Integrated Astromech 0
Black One 1
Ship Total: 39
 

The plan is to strip atleast one focus and one TL each round, ( but quite possible two of each) negating all the harpoon missile we so often face.
I've left some optional upgrades out of the list due to the fact that initiative is so important in the combat phase, even though i have 2xPS11.

Thoughts?

 

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I like the idea, I think TFA Han is an interesting pilot and often catches people off guard.  However, if you can't escape from your opponents arc you'll probably find that without the original title, C-3PO or Chewbacca he will die a lot easier then you expect.  Pretty much the same applies to Poe if he comes across a ship that can hit hard without missiles. 

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16 minutes ago, JudgeDeath said:

I like the idea, I think TFA Han is an interesting pilot and often catches people off guard.  However, if you can't escape from your opponents arc you'll probably find that without the original title, C-3PO or Chewbacca he will die a lot easier then you expect.  Pretty much the same applies to Poe if he comes across a ship that can hit hard without missiles. 

But if they can shoot me, so can Han, and hopefully first, so any retaliation would be with out Focus, and hopefully a TL.
One can't roll awesome everytime.
Yes you can probably do ALOT of damage on Han without mods, but it's way harder :P

I need to test it properly though.

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There are multiple ways of modifying dice without needing focus or target locks, such as Expertise, Predator, Glitterstim, Palpatine, Rage, etc, as well as the ability of certain ships/cards to stack focus tokens which would reduce the impact of Hotshot Co-pilot, so the effectiveness of your strategy could vary a lot depending on what you are up against.

Its still worth trying your list a couple of times as is to see how it does, but if you wanted a bit extra for defence I would take the evade title as 98pts fleet total would still give you initiative most of the time (or at least a dice off to see if you get it).  As you say, anything more could lose you initiative and harm your overall strategy.

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I really don't think this is very competitive.

That is a very squishy Poe without regen OR ATs. He's also stuck on turns with stress not being able to use BB. Same with Han without the evade title, c3 or countermeasures.  I just don't think TFA Han is any good.

 

Check out this recent article on a PoeHan build, its quite the good read:

https://suchanxwinghipster.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/the-x-philes-it-was-never-actually-proven-that-it-was-a-spaceship/

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7 hours ago, ltetone said:

I really don't think this is very competitive.

That is a very squishy Poe without regen OR ATs. He's also stuck on turns with stress not being able to use BB. Same with Han without the evade title, c3 or countermeasures.  I just don't think TFA Han is any good.

 

Check out this recent article on a PoeHan build, its quite the good read:

https://suchanxwinghipster.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/the-x-philes-it-was-never-actually-proven-that-it-was-a-spaceship/

According to this FFA Han isn't that bad.

And yes AT and evade Title would be better , but with todays meta of PS11 vets initiative is key.

One could propably dare to add evade title but 97 is most likely necessary to guarantee initiative.

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6 hours ago, NLJUNGBERG said:

According to this FFA Han isn't that bad.

I didn't see where he said that?

edit: here's my go at it:

Poe Dameron (PS9) — T-70 X-Wing 33
Veteran Instincts 1
BB-8 2
Advanced Optics 2
Autothrusters 2
Black One 1
Ship Total: 41
   
Han Solo (TFA) — YT-1300 46
Veteran Instincts 1
Hotshot Co-pilot 4
Rey 2
Countermeasures 3
Millennium Falcon 1
Ship Total: 57

Total: 98

Edited by ltetone

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1 hour ago, ltetone said:

I didn't see where he said that?

edit: here's my go at it:

Poe Dameron (PS9) — T-70 X-Wing 33
Veteran Instincts 1
BB-8 2
Advanced Optics 2
Autothrusters 2
Black One 1
Ship Total: 41
   
Han Solo (TFA) — YT-1300 46
Veteran Instincts 1
Hotshot Co-pilot 4
Rey 2
Countermeasures 3
Millennium Falcon 1
Ship Total: 57

Total: 98

Have you tried this?? I'm really interested in hearing a battle report

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4 minutes ago, ccjacks3 said:

Have you tried this?? I'm really interested in hearing a battle report

No it was just off the cuff based on what OP was going after, although I have flown hanpoe before. Usually with c3.

Edited by ltetone

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26 minutes ago, ltetone said:

No it was just off the cuff based on what OP was going after, although I have flown hanpoe before. Usually with c3.

Yeah, I'd figure that C-3PO is almost always on Han but Countermeasures and the evade title could keep him alive pretty long. 

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10 minutes ago, ccjacks3 said:

Yeah, I'd figure that C-3PO is almost always on Han but Countermeasures and the evade title could keep him alive pretty long. 

I’d imagine this list is going for a “long enough” approach, banking on removing TLs and focus to get in a few modded 4 red dice shots. Create one real favorable encounter where cm gets popped.

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13 minutes ago, ltetone said:

I’d imagine this list is going for a “long enough” approach, banking on removing TLs and focus to get in a few modded 4 red dice shots. Create one real favorable encounter where cm gets popped.

Also, I've seen many people use Hotshot Co-Pilot. Whats the logic behind using this if you force your opponent to potentially modify dice in their favor???

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31 minutes ago, ccjacks3 said:

Also, I've seen many people use Hotshot Co-Pilot. Whats the logic behind using this if you force your opponent to potentially modify dice in their favor???

Myriad reasons. They have to spend the token, even if they don’t have any eyeballs on their greens, so it may not be advantageous. They won’t have it to mod their reds on the hat back. It hoses opposing Poe’s. Also, I’ve seen a lot of deadeye harpoons running around, it’s effective against that as well.

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1 hour ago, ltetone said:

Myriad reasons. They have to spend the token, even if they don’t have any eyeballs on their greens, so it may not be advantageous. They won’t have it to mod their reds on the hat back. It hoses opposing Poe’s. Also, I’ve seen a lot of deadeye harpoons running around, it’s effective against that as well.

Wait. They have to spend even if no eyeballs? I’ve wondered about this card... 

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I do like the idea of Baze with Hot Cop. That could be better with original Han though where he could reroll to try to miss his first shot just to get Baze to trigger more and burn more tokens. Not sure if it's worth that many points but it seems strong especially against Deadeye ordnance lists.

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5 hours ago, ltetone said:

I didn't see where he said that?

edit: here's my go at it:

Poe Dameron (PS9) — T-70 X-Wing 33
Veteran Instincts 1
BB-8 2
Advanced Optics 2
Autothrusters 2
Black One 1
Ship Total: 41
   
Han Solo (TFA) — YT-1300 46
Veteran Instincts 1
Hotshot Co-pilot 4
Rey 2
Countermeasures 3
Millennium Falcon 1
Ship Total: 57

Total: 98

I have accidently used the wrong Han in this list, and couldn't for my life understand your point.
I am a dumbass. Sorry

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On 1/9/2018 at 1:52 PM, Estarriol said:

There’s nothing wrong with it on paper. It lacks countermeasures on Han and Regen on Poe but it doesn’t need them per se.... take it out and give it a twirl!

I’ve come to the conclusion that Engine is better than Countermeasures. Countermeasures is a 1 time use card for going against ordinance, problem is ordinance can reload now and now it’s easy to fit numerous ships with ordinance. Countermeasure hype went up with Dengaroo and ordinance, but I think it hit its peak.

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42 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that Engine is better than Countermeasures. Countermeasures is a 1 time use card for going against ordinance, problem is ordinance can reload now and now it’s easy to fit numerous ships with ordinance. Countermeasure hype went up with Dengaroo and ordinance, but I think it hit its peak.

I think I tend to agree with this when you are running PTL with it where you can also token up in the same turn. On anything else I think it's pretty close. If you have 5 points to spare, scav crane/CM is very strong. With Poe's ability you can remove a second TL along with CM, so it's pretty resistant to harpoon alpha strikes.

For example, I think I'd take this list over one with engine upgrade:

Poe Dameron (PS9) — T-70 X-Wing 33
Veteran Instincts 1
BB-8 2
Advanced Optics 2
Autothrusters 2
Black One 1
Ship Total: 41
   
Han Solo — YT-1300 46
Veteran Instincts 1
C-3PO 3
Rey 2
Scavenger Crane 2
Smuggling Compartment 0
Countermeasures 3
Millennium Falcon 1

Ship Total: 58

Total: 99

 

48 minutes ago, NLJUNGBERG said:

I have accidently used the wrong Han in this list, and couldn't for my life understand your point.
I am a dumbass. Sorry

No worries! I instantly like the list more with young Han!

Even at 97, you're going to run into some thweek list that's sitting at 96. I think the 2 point bid is a sufficient hedge.

Edited by ltetone

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Han shot first (100)

 

Han Solo — YT-1300 46
Veteran Instincts 1
C-3PO 3
Hotshot Co-pilot 4
Smuggling Compartment 0
Countermeasures 3
Ship Total: 57
   
Poe Dameron (PS9) — T-70 X-Wing 33
Veteran Instincts 1
R2-D2 4
Advanced Optics 2
Autothrusters 2
Black One 1
Ship Total: 43
 

After some extensive playtesting, i've started to believe more in this list then in my first attempt. Han lives longer and i feel much more comfortable coming in close.

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So my final list that i brought to Stockholm Regionals looked a bit different to my last post.

Han:

VI, hotshot co-pilot, Gunner, Engine Upgrade

Poe:

VI, FFA, AO, AT,BO

 

I ended up placing third, 5-1, after a NymRanda and the player beating me (Kanan/Fenn/Ezra).

I managed to kill a ship turn 2 in 4 out of 7 games, mostly due to the Hotshot/Gunner combo, making the target try to roll good natural dice against a Han at Range 1 and a full modded Poe.

I love this list and in this meta it's great.

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5 hours ago, NLJUNGBERG said:

So my final list that i brought to Stockholm Regionals looked a bit different to my last post.

Han:

VI, hotshot co-pilot, Gunner, Engine Upgrade

Poe:

VI, FFA, AO, AT,BO

 

I ended up placing third, 5-1, after a NymRanda and the player beating me (Kanan/Fenn/Ezra).

I managed to kill a ship turn 2 in 4 out of 7 games, mostly due to the Hotshot/Gunner combo, making the target try to roll good natural dice against a Han at Range 1 and a full modded Poe.

I love this list and in this meta it's great.

What were your matchups?

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