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Marinealver

Is the Star Destroyer Really TOO BIG for Epic?

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15 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

I'm not disputing whether or not it "canonically" scales to a given size. I'm saying that this debate assumes that the people who designed the CROC didn't frell up when designing it in the FIRST place. They may have INTENDED for both ships to be built on the same hull, but the actual design would require a much larger ship to physically work (IE, decks ending up too small to actually accommodate the crew).

I'm saying I'm holding both gozantis right now. The croc and iac are the same size (except for some engine/nose mods not the structure) 

If iac is scale so is the croc if the croc isnt scale then the iac isnt.

They both are or both aren't.

Unless you're saying the croc isn't to scale with itself. Such as bridge out of scale with hull.

And if that's the case then fair enough the croc isn't perfectly scaled. But it does still take up the correct amount of space even if the cosmetics are off.

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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55 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

ISDdont scale well to x wing man. They have a complement of what? 72 tie fighters? And that's just an aspect of the power an SD brings to the party. 

It's either so expensive and overpowered that you can't fit enough on a table to match it, or you make star destroyers way cheaper and weaker than an SD should be. Not to speak of model scale. 

I like the idea of a "Super Huge" in the game, but we should be talking about an Arquitens, not an ISD.

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Just now, Darth Meanie said:

I like the idea of a "Super Huge" in the game, but we should be talking about an Arquitens, not an ISD.

See I could get behind that, two part model that can be broken down for transport to and fro the flgs and actually scale (power wise if not model wise) with the game a lot easier.

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47 minutes ago, mithril2098 said:

Arquitens for imps, Nebulon-B for rebels?

That’s what I’m going with.  My capital ship fleets will be:

Imperials:

1 Arquitens Command Cruiser (commissioned scratch-build)

2 Imperial Raiders

2 Imperial Assault Carriers

2 Decimators (not true capital ships but included for balance)

Rebels:

1 Nebulon-B Frigate (3D print)

1 DP-20 Frigate (3D print)

1 CR-90 Corvette 

1 CR-12 style Hammerhead Corvette (3D print)

2 GR-75 Transports

 

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15 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

Arquitens for imps, Nebulon-B for rebels?

Yeah that is what I think the real question we should be asking here. Is if this is possible. Or maybe The Nebulon-B and the Imperial-II class

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27 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

Yeah that is what I think the real question we should be asking here. Is if this is possible. Or maybe The Nebulon-B and the Imperial-II class

Imperial II is wayyyy too big. Bigger than a victory class. 

 

Arquitens is comparable to a nebulon b, mc30, other frigates. 

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13 hours ago, Gibbilo said:

Yeah that is what I think the real question we should be asking here. Is if this is possible. Or maybe The Nebulon-B and the Imperial-II class

the Nebulon-B is around 300 meters long, per canon. the Imperial II StarDestroyer is 1600 meters long.

if you mean the Class-II Imperial Frigate, like the Rand Ecliptic, well those are 400 meters officially in legends (no canon yet), but the art usually shows them as bigger (closer to the 725 meter Acclamator's they resemble), and their fighter compliment actually requires them to be much bigger (72 TIE's, plus several shuttles. the nebulon-B cannot physically fit a squadron, much less the two it is often claimed to carry. that something only 1/3rd bigger can carry six is absurd)

 

Edited by mithril2098

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On 1/31/2018 at 5:05 PM, mithril2098 said:

the Nebulon-B is around 300 meters long, per canon. the Imperial II StarDestroyer is 1600 meters long.

if you mean the Class-II Imperial Frigate, like the Rand Ecliptic, well those are 400 meters officially in legends (no canon yet), but the art usually shows them as bigger (closer to the 725 meter Acclamator's they resemble), and their fighter compliment actually requires them to be much bigger (72 TIE's, plus several shuttles. the nebulon-B cannot physically fit a squadron, much less the two it is often claimed to carry. that something only 1/3rd bigger can carry six is absurd)

 

Nebbies most likely carry starfighters and other ships via docking tubes as seen in ESB with the Falcon docked to the ‘spine’.  I could totally see 24 TIEs space out around the ship with gozanti-like docking clamps, some oriented on top or even on the side of the big central spine.  The X-wing games cheated and showed a huge docking bay on the fore section of the Nebulon B that was not present in the movies.

Acclimators carried an obscene amount of ships in the CW cartoon.  The 600 m cruisers that the Interdictors were based on could carry quite a bit if set up to do so, being a somewhat modular design.

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On 2/4/2018 at 1:38 PM, GrimmyV said:

Nebbies most likely carry starfighters and other ships via docking tubes as seen in ESB with the Falcon docked to the ‘spine’.  I could totally see 24 TIEs space out around the ship with gozanti-like docking clamps, some oriented on top or even on the side of the big central spine.  The X-wing games cheated and showed a huge docking bay on the fore section of the Nebulon B that was not present in the movies.

Acclimators carried an obscene amount of ships in the CW cartoon.  The 600 m cruisers that the Interdictors were based on could carry quite a bit if set up to do so, being a somewhat modular design.

Well for docking I have set up a docking zone inside the influence zone and the docking zone is considered under the ship.

pic2215163.png

For capacity we all know that ISDs carry not fighters but squadrons of fighters. But again as going for abstraction (as X-wing is a game of Abstraction more than Simulation) I think maybe having a capacity of 16 small ships or 4 large ships (large ships taking up 4 slots) as the capacity (that should fit around 200 points). I was also thinking of different types of actions too.

  • Reload (note this was before wave 12 was announced) Replace all discarded secondary weapons and munition tokens.
  • Repair Discard a face down damage card or flip any face up damage card with the ship trait.
  • Replace Pilot Trade pilot card with any non-unique pilot of the same ship that has equal or lower pilot skill. Then turn all face up damage cards with the pilot trait face down.

Also thinking of a huge ship only <crew> card called reserve pilot. When place a pilot card under this. When performing a replace pilot action of a ship of the same type who cost more squadron points than the pilot card under this you may trade with this card instead.

Forget the length of the Star Destroyer model, it is going to need its very own rule book:o

Edited by Marinealver

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 1:03 AM, Marinealver said:

but what if we scale it to 30 inches, yeah I know the Falcon seems larger than the bridge windows but really it is still puny when set up next to it. Also scale is a relative term in X-wing now. Maybe back in Wave 6 when scale was still something to worry about but now scale is flexible, granted this is bending the limits quite a bit, I think it doesn't necessarily break immersion. 

That's closer to the scale a CR90 Blockade Runner "should" be at. A Vigil Class corvette would be at 25" even at 1/350 (which is already a much smaller scale). Scale may be relative, but not THAT relative, this would totally break immersion for anyone that actually cares about scale. I believe FFG makes a game for people who don't care about scale - its called Armada. There is such a large variety of ships in Star Wars why don't we stick with Ships that make sense - such as the Vigil. And yea FFG should change the CR90 to being 1/350th at the minimum

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On 1/15/2018 at 12:15 AM, Vontoothskie said:

Gozanti and raider are to scale, CR90, CROC, and GR75 arent.  

I made a custom rebel Epic ship to scale and play that as the GR75. 

also pretty silly trying to explain scale in response to someones comment explaining scale

True, but even at 1:400, rather than 1:270, its still close enough.

Making an ISD 1:4000 is going to be WAY OFF..

 

Though i've often wondered.  The Gozanti can carry 4 fighters.  BUT is that all it can deploy?

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On 11/29/2018 at 6:10 AM, LTuser said:

The Gozanti can carry 4 fighters.  BUT is that all it can deploy?

It can deploy walkers as well. In the TV series, I think I've seen TIE bombers undocking from one (according to Wookieepedia, it was in the Iron Squadron episode of Season 3 that Gozantis carried TIE bombers) 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gozanti-class_cruiser

 

 

 

 

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I was more thinking, can it deploy defenders, advanced or other ships besides bombers/interceptors/fighters..  OR because those other fighter types have their own hyperdrives, a Gozanti's not needed?

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2 hours ago, LTuser said:

I was more thinking, can it deploy defenders, advanced or other ships besides bombers/interceptors/fighters..  OR because those other fighter types have their own hyperdrives, a Gozanti's not needed?

In the series, I think we see a TIE Advanced v1 connect to a Gozanti. in the last episode

 

I think the TIE Defender though, doesn't really have a good way to link up, because above its top hatch, is its third wing pylon.

 

I was focusing more on what's mechanically possible than what's legal.

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On 1/28/2018 at 2:23 PM, mithril2098 said:

the CR90 in Rebels does not have A-wings inside it. that was the Pelta class Frigate. the CR90's in the show could carry a trio of A-wing externally on their docking ports.

this is a pelta, it is much larger than a CR90:

Home_Base_and_its_fleet.png

latest?cb=20150621064724

i can see where the confusion might occur, given the way the cylindrical bow section has some similar surface textures in the close up, but the scene does make it fairly clear.

this is the CR90 with Docked A-wings from Rebels.

CQe2B2hUkAAneJC.jpg

YmPsedQl.jpg

Thank you, good lord. I'm glad somebody said it.

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5 hours ago, Ironlord said:

In the series, I think we see a TIE Advanced v1 connect to a Gozanti. in the last episode

 

I think the TIE Defender though, doesn't really have a good way to link up, because above its top hatch, is its third wing pylon.

 

I was focusing more on what's mechanically possible than what's legal.

Fair enough.  Guess it will just have to stick with using the non-hyperspace stuff..

10 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Thank you, good lord. I'm glad somebody said it.

Strange, in the legends novels (specifically Wraith squadron), we only ever see a haphazard retrofit of a Corvette to carry 8 x-wings, NOT any A-wings..  So if the clone wars/rebels showed it being a somewhat common thing, why then was it so 'revolutionary, when it got done in Wraith squadron??

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26 minutes ago, LTuser said:

Fair enough.  Guess it will just have to stick with using the non-hyperspace stuff..

Strange, in the legends novels (specifically Wraith squadron), we only ever see a haphazard retrofit of a Corvette to carry 8 x-wings, NOT any A-wings..  So if the clone wars/rebels showed it being a somewhat common thing, why then was it so 'revolutionary, when it got done in Wraith squadron??

Because the A-Wings weren't carried internally.

There's also no way eight X-Wings fit in even a retrofitted one.

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11 hours ago, LTuser said:

Fair enough.  Guess it will just have to stick with using the non-hyperspace stuff..

Strange, in the legends novels (specifically Wraith squadron), we only ever see a haphazard retrofit of a Corvette to carry 8 x-wings, NOT any A-wings..  So if the clone wars/rebels showed it being a somewhat common thing, why then was it so 'revolutionary, when it got done in Wraith squadron??

 

10 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Because the A-Wings weren't carried internally.

There's also no way eight X-Wings fit in even a retrofitted one.

I think it was a misunderstanding on the actual scale of the ships... If Wraith was written today, the ship would've been a Pelta, not a CR90.

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3 hours ago, RuusMarev said:

I think it was a misunderstanding on the actual scale of the ships... If Wraith was written today, the ship would've been a Pelta, not a CR90.

Reminds me of the offensive, downright offensive scaling in Mysteries of The Sith. Even if you did barf a hangar bay onto a CR-90, you end up sacrificing loads of weapons and other systems- and there's no maintenence space. It'd have to be 100% flight deck. It's a horrible idea.
 



Timestamped, just look at this whole section. This is bonkers.

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The trend of 2.0 is: less tweaking of scales (ex. Rz2 A-wing to proper scale vs 1.0. Rebel A-wing slightly sized up). 

We're also basically promised a rescaled Silencer as well, so I'm hoping for some adjustments for the RZ1 and maybe a couple epics. 

 

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9 hours ago, Bucknife said:

The trend of 2.0 is: less tweaking of scales (ex. Rz2 A-wing to proper scale vs 1.0. Rebel A-wing slightly sized up). 

 

The 1.0 A-Wing was sized to the official figure almost exactly. But the official figure doesn't quite match some of the props (though it does match the Rebels A-Wing scenes).

1/270 scale

1.0 A-Wing Official length: 9.6m. Model length 36mm. At 1/270 scale, scales up to 9.72m. Almost bang on.

 

If anything, it's the 2.0 A-Wing that's more severely oversized, since the official length is 7.68m.

 

2.0 A-Wing Official length: 7.68m. Model length 35mm. At 1/270 scale, scales up to 9.45m. Rather more off.

Edited by Ironlord

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