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I’m new to TI but I was wondering what people would want for expansions to TI 4.  Or is it good the way it is?  All 17 races, streamlined rules. Would expansions bog it down with extra rules, ect?

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Posted (edited)

The only general consensus I've seen is that it'd be nice to have 7-8 players and "some of the options" from the TI3 expansions, reworked for TI4.

Where that consensus falls apart is on which options are needed vs wanted vs despised. For example, a lot of people would like to see Distant Suns return (and pretty much universally agree that it should be as three decks of cards or three sets of tokens, one for each planet type), but not everyone likes it. Some of us miss mech tanks, others hated them. (If they do bring them back, they'll probably need some serious game-balance tweaks.) Not everyone liked mercenaries, but some of us would love to see them included if they're revamped to fit seamlessly into the game (as opposed to the "need their own SC" version from TI3). And so on.

I feel like TI4 is definitely due for at least one big expansion, but I'd imagine it being closer to Catan's "Traders and Barbarians" (a bunch of mini-expansions, and you can use any or all of them) as opposed to Catan's "Seafarers" (one big set of rules that changes the game significantly).

EDIT: Actually, worth mentioning that the only thing I really think TI4 absolutely needs is another set of more aggressive public objectives. I'd like more options that focus on combat and conquest instead of so much "spend X" and "have these techs." Right now the game is too easy on the peaceful races like Jol-Nar and too hard on the warriors, IMO.

Edited by pklevine

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I still say that there should be one "Distant Suns"-deck with all three planet types on the same card similar to how Town Encounters are handled in Arkham Horror...

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16 minutes ago, Fnoffen said:

I still say that there should be one "Distant Suns"-deck with all three planet types on the same card similar to how Town Encounters are handled in Arkham Horror...

If they can fit all the needed info onto one card, then yeah. Thus far, however, TI has not used any full sized cards, so we're probably talking about mini cards like all the other decks. If it’s a choice between 3 decks that have the rules on the cards and 1 deck plus a reference sheet for the icons like TI3 had, I’ll take the 3 extra decks. 

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Whatever it is, I'd like something that speeds the game up or drives the game forward (by giving you stuff or allowing things to be built/bought for cheap). I wouldn't want something that bogs the game down.

- I liked the wormhole nexus in TI3 and would like to see it return.

- I have mixed feeling about domain counters. I like them a lot in TI3. If they appear in TI4, they would have to help as much as they can crap.

- Artifacts that give victory points / achieve objectives / give tech rebates would be nice.

- I'd like to see some planets / trade stations return, if only for the sake of diversity .

- I loved leaders in TI3, and I would like to see them return (perhaps with less but more straightforward abilities).

 

What I don't want:

- a whole new series of races.

- a bunch of action cards that dilutes the deck too much.

- meaningless political agenda cards.

- new units (although I wouldn't be against new units upgrades).

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Alternative options for some of the content in the base game might be interesting.  Rather than adding additional units, adding additional or alternative upgrades to the research decks would give more play space without increasing the number of units any side needed to manage at once.

Same for alternative objectives or alternative objective pacing - you decide the pieces you want and they replace or augment the content in the existing game rather than bloating it.

I really liked the idea of leaders, but never actually got them to the table in 3rd.  It was always considered just too much effort for so little reward and interaction, which is a pity.  If they put them in, I'd like to see them be on the power level of promissory notes.  Ideally, you shouldn't be able to easily forget or ignore them.

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I do like the Distant Suns being added, especially with the thought that different types of planets could have their own "What's on it" results.  (be it in 1 deck or 3).

With the way Units are, I see possibly a Version III of some ships, not new units at this point, and that could be good.

I would like a Scenario(s) to be added.  Give some variety in the gameplay as the Lazak one did.  I never got to play it, but it seemed like an interesting scenario.

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8 hours ago, GaGrin said:

  If they put them *leaders* in, I'd like to see them be on the power level of promissory notes.  Ideally, you shouldn't be able to easily forget or ignore them.

In that line of thought, the leaders and mercenaries concepts could be merged, either with a single deck of generic leaders, or a small deck (like three cards) of race-specific leaders. With a cost to deploy, they don't have to be all three out at the top of the game.

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1 hour ago, Laurefindel said:

a small deck (like three cards) of race-specific leaders

It would probably be a pain to Design and balance, but, say, a 5-6 Card deck of race specific leaders, each with a unique ability, for each race, and then you get a random 3 of those to play with during a game might be interesting. Would change up how each race plays a bit from game to game. Tricky to create enough diversity though. 

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On 2018-01-09 at 11:12 PM, Forgottenlore said:

If they can fit all the needed info onto one card, then yeah. Thus far, however, TI has not used any full sized cards, so we're probably talking about mini cards like all the other decks. If it’s a choice between 3 decks that have the rules on the cards and 1 deck plus a reference sheet for the icons like TI3 had, I’ll take the 3 extra decks. 

I could also imagine it being handled like Arkham Horrors Other World Encounters where there's only two colours and you keep drawing until you find one that matches.

My reasoning for not having one deck for each planet type is diversity.

With one deck/planet type you'll eventually start learning what nice goodies are in those decks and you might start racing for a certain planet type in a wild hunt for that one specific awsome card (say "Hidden Shipyards: Place one free Dreadnought or two free Destroyers in this system") that you know is in there somewhere and that eventually WILL come up.

With mixed cards (wether it be 2 or 3 planet types/card), that specific card/event you're hoping to get might as well get junked when someone encounters the "Toxic Atmosphere: Roll one die for each landing Infantry, the unit is destroyed if the die result is uneven." effect that just happened to be on the same card.

[Disclaimer: the example effects above were spawned from my mind and any similarities with potential future expansion content is purely coincidental.]

Edited by Fnoffen
for rephrasing

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1 hour ago, Ken on Cape said:

I'm new to TI, what was Distant Suns?

It was an optional rule in TI3 that tried to capture more of the exploration aspect. Each planet (and sometimes empty space tiles) would have a face down token placed on it. The first person to land forces on the planet revealed the token and suffered the effects. They could be good (gain a ship or tech for free) or bad (kill first ground force to land). 

Some people really liked them because they added more sense of exploration and danger to the early game, other people really disliked them because they tended to slow the game down (something TI really doesn’t need) and could radically skew how the game went if one player got particularly good or bad draws. 

One thing about it though is that it’s a very easy option to either add or include. Using it doesn’t require a lot of reworking of the rules to make it fit. For that reason I think it should be included in an expansion, so the people who like it can use it and those that don’t, don’t. 

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1 hour ago, Forgottenlore said:

It was an optional rule in TI3 that tried to capture more of the exploration aspect. Each planet (and sometimes empty space tiles) would have a face down token placed on it. The first person to land forces on the planet revealed the token and suffered the effects. They could be good (gain a ship or tech for free) or bad (kill first ground force to land). 

Some people really liked them because they added more sense of exploration and danger to the early game, other people really disliked them because they tended to slow the game down (something TI really doesn’t need) and could radically skew how the game went if one player got particularly good or bad draws. 

 

To Ken - It was an option I liked playing when I play with my children, but it was hard to bring to the table with other adults.  TI is considered by many to be a 4X game, and Distant Suns really brought the 1st X, eXplore, to the forefront of the game.  Without it, its hard to say its a true 4X game.  Consider it as a Fog of War(ish) mechanic for a Miniatures game.

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I am pretty new to TI but, and only have TI4 under my belt.  

-One new ground forces unit. I feel with the huge variety of ships, ground forces kinda get left in the dust.  Have no idea how this would be implemented. 

-Perhaps more unit upgrades. 

-Components for up to 8 players

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3 hours ago, Jbarth09 said:

-One new ground forces unit. I feel with the huge variety of ships, ground forces kinda get left in the dust.  Have no idea how this would be implemented. 

One of the TI3 expansions (don't remember which one) introduced a Mechanized ground unit with severly improved combat stats and the Sustain Damage ability. They were limited by the low amount of units available for construction, 4 If memory serves.

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19 hours ago, Fnoffen said:

One of the TI3 expansions (don't remember which one) introduced a Mechanized ground unit with severly improved combat stats and the Sustain Damage ability. They were limited by the low amount of units available for construction, 4 If memory serves.

Additionally, the expansions introduced the concept of shock troopers. Ground forces that rolled a 10/0 were replaced with a cardboard shock trooper token. The shock troopers were upgraded versions of the ground forces (ie they had lower combat roll thresholds). It was an interesting mechanic in that it couldn't be bought but rather had to "earned via experience".

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The trouble is, no one in our (fairly wide!) gaming circle enjoyed Shock Troops. They were fiddly, it was one more rule to remember, and they seemed to exist only to justify the existence of Hope's End. In TI4, the concept of Shock Troops has basically been replaced by Infantry II, and that was a good change IMO.

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Things I want:

- More systems

- More tech options

- Distant Suns

Things I don't want:

- Shocktroops

- Space Mines

- Facilities

- Mechanized Units

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My consolidated list:

NEED (as in, I might pass it up if these aren't included)

  • 7-8 Players and a fourth ring of systems
  • More public objectives, with focus on conquest/combat

WANT

  • Distant Suns cards (reworked, including positive things to replace Artifacts as well)
  • More secret objectives
  • A generic-effect 9th Strategy Card for use only in 4- and 8-player games
  • Another type of Ground Force, but more carefully game-balanced than Mechs were
  • Maybe some sort of leaders/mercenaries/representatives, consolidated and reworked from the ground up

WON'T USE (feel free to include them, but I'll leave 'em out)

  • Weak or niche action/agenda/tech cards for the sake of including them -- keep the decks tuned!
  • Colonies and facilities -- these were poorly balanced
  • Space mines -- meh

PLEASE NO (because I probably won't be able to "leave out" systems in a 7-8 player game!)

  • "Special" systems like Hope's End, the Trade Stations, and anything else that adds yet more rules exceptions and/or throws off game balance. (Seriously, look at the old TI3 preset maps and how Hope's End has to get its own positioning.)

(I'm ambivalent on other stuff -- might use it, might not.)

Edited by pklevine

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Well the game is set up for expansions already. You have the planet traits which currently have little to no function in the current gameplay mechanic which is likely going to see some sort of similar mechanic from distant sun. You would probably see a "Distant Sun" deck much like Arkham horror where depending on the planet type is what you would encounter. You will have a better idea of what to expect when landing on a cultural or hazardous planet unlike 3rd edition which was literally luck of he draw.

As for other expansions maybe the hero system which was a 2nd edition added into 3rd core. You could even try to integrate them with the assembly module from shards of the throne with Diplomat/Consular General/Bodyguard Spy/Assassin, and have something for the other two such as Admiral/Trade and Scientist/Activist sort of mechanic for the assembly.

And maybe a return of some old unit such as shock troops and mechanized infantry. Only make them actual units not just tokens. We could also use a few new units such as bombers. Like fighters as they must be carried but only come in 1 and have a higher attack value.

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4 hours ago, Marinealver said:

And maybe a return of some old unit such as shock troops and mechanized infantry. Only make them actual units not just tokens. We could also use a few new units such as bombers. Like fighters as they must be carried but only come in 1 and have a higher attack value.

The fact that the unit stats and upgrades and such are presented on the racial dashboards the way they are makes adding new units a bit problematic. It’s not something that couldn’t be overcome, but it’s not as simple as it was. 

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4 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

The fact that the unit stats and upgrades and such are presented on the racial dashboards the way they are makes adding new units a bit problematic. It’s not something that couldn’t be overcome, but it’s not as simple as it was. 

Well they did came out with unit info cards to be placed next to your mat for reference. Now the solution which might be more drastic but a bit more functional is to simply reprint the color mats with the new units on them. You can add about 3 or 4 units on the right side of the activation mat and they would go with any racial dash board you have.

On 1/12/2018 at 10:10 AM, Stefan said:

Things I want:

...

- Distant Suns

...

This is the most obvious expansion. I can imagine a Distant sun deck each card with one with a Cultural event, Hazardous event, and Industrial Event. You can expect the Hazardous event to have the most negative effects but not always. I am sure also you can sneak in a negative effect for Cultural and Industrial planets as well.

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9 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I can imagine a Distant sun deck each card with one with a Cultural event, Hazardous event, and Industrial Event. You can expect the Hazardous event to have the most negative effects but not always. I am sure also you can sneak in a negative effect for Cultural and Industrial planets as well.

That would certainly be the best way, if they can manage to fit all that on a single card. What might be kinda nice would be for the hazardous effects (at least some of them) to be pretty bad, but also include a small benefit as well. So it would be less about “I’ll have to suffer a penalty to invade this planet” and more “is the benefit of invading this planet likely to be worth the cost?”  

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