Why wouldn’t Genius work with Trajectory Simulator?

[Estarriol 1,649]

This came up in a stream over the weekend, but I don’t get it. Simulator says you can launch rather than drop, genius gives you an opportunity to drop. I don’t understand the ruling that they don’t work together.

Anyone got any thoughts?

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

The ruling is wrong.

E: I've come across this as coming out of the Vassal league, but I'm pretty shocked that a Regional is getting something as clear as this wrong.

I'd love it if this wasn't a combo, it's bordering on broken - good luck outguessing your opponent who has a choice of 3 locations for his bomb after he's set his dial or 35 locations before, covering most of the mat - but RAW, it is a combo.

Edited January 8, 2018 by thespaceinvader

[shaunmerritt 204]

I can't see any reason why it would not work. Did they give an explanation why they didn't allow it? 

[Vineheart01 6,403]

i dont see why it wouldnt work either.

TrajSim doesnt mention the dial at all so its not locked to happen specifically when you reveal the dial (which would also negate Action bombs without specifying they are excluded). If they did, Genius wouldnt work because TrajSim is still limited to the dial.

But it just flatout says "instead of dropping" with no timing window. Genius gives a new window, not a funky way of dropping it either. His FAQ still says "drop" so its not a wording issue either (example: if his faq mentioned "place a bomb corresponding..." then it wouldnt work as hes not dropping a bomb)

This sounds like people just not liking the combo saying it doesnt work imo.

[shaunmerritt 204]

1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

This sounds like people just not liking the combo saying it doesnt work imo.

I have to agree. There is no argument I can see made for it not being allowed. 

[ZealuxMyr 1,944]

Also agreed, I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

You execute your maneuver, genius triggers to drop a bomb, you drop a bomb, and you trigger Trajectory Simulator to launch said bomb instead.

As genius now throws out the upgrade card (or em token) I'd want to be sure I'm hitting something with said bomb, but it clearly works.

Also agree with @Vineheart01: "This sounds like people just not liking the combo saying it doesn't work imo." There seems to be a lot of this as of late, and making the FAQ 100 pages long to rule out every "I don't like the combo so I believe the rules mean x instead of y." is not going to benefit anyone...

I think the confusion comes from people wanting the drop keyword to be replaced with launch so it reads completely differently. As with most things, read the cards. All trajectory simulator does is let you launch a bomb instead of dropping it. You can't have a bomb to launch if you haven't triggered an ability to drop a bomb in the first place...

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Thats the funny part though, the Drop and Launch keywords wouldnt conflict

Genius drops a bomb. He has already triggered, and now another trigger goes off because of drop now becoming launch and doing something different. Genius makes no mention how he must be used, just he must discard to drop.
The other way around IS true however, that is Launching a bomb is not Dropping a bomb. Afaik that only affects Deathrain atm as hes the only ability i can think of specifically on "after dropping" - doesnt work with his ability, but i really dont get why people would want it on him anyway since AdvSensors is WAY better on him (redline on the other hand...)

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

50 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Thats the funny part though, the Drop and Launch keywords wouldnt conflict

Genius drops a bomb. He has already triggered, and now another trigger goes off because of drop now becoming launch and doing something different. Genius makes no mention how he must be used, just he must discard to drop.
The other way around IS true however, that is Launching a bomb is not Dropping a bomb. Afaik that only affects Deathrain atm as hes the only ability i can think of specifically on "after dropping" - doesnt work with his ability, but i really dont get why people would want it on him anyway since AdvSensors is WAY better on him (redline on the other hand...)

...doesn't want bombs at all because why on earth would you want to make him more expensive tha  he already is?

[ZealuxMyr 1,944]

18 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Thats the funny part though, the Drop and Launch keywords wouldnt conflict

Genius drops a bomb. He has already triggered, and now another trigger goes off because of drop now becoming launch and doing something different. Genius makes no mention how he must be used, just he must discard to drop.
The other way around IS true however, that is Launching a bomb is not Dropping a bomb. Afaik that only affects Deathrain atm as hes the only ability i can think of specifically on "after dropping" - doesnt work with his ability, but i really dont get why people would want it on him anyway since AdvSensors is WAY better on him (redline on the other hand...)

I agree they don't conflict, I'm saying that people are interpreting that they do conflict in order to justify their argument against using Trajectory Simulator on a bomb dropped by Genius...

[USCGrad90 884]

I just used this combo on Nym in a tournament this weekend and no one had a problem with.  There was another player doing the same thing.  I don't think it's really overpowered, because you can really only use it twice on Nym with EM.

The one game I had to use it twice, I was behind and this last drop was a desperate attempt to try to damage my opponent.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

33 minutes ago, USCGrad90 said:

I just used this combo on Nym in a tournament this weekend and no one had a problem with.  There was another player doing the same thing.  I don't think it's really overpowered, because you can really only use it twice on Nym with EM.

The one game I had to use it twice, I was behind and this last drop was a desperate attempt to try to damage my opponent.

It's better when you have Sabine in the list and you use seismics or thermmals on Nym and Bomblet on Miranda.

[USCGrad90 884]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:01 PM, thespaceinvader said:

It's better when you have Sabine in the list and you use seismics or thermmals on Nym and Bomblet on Miranda.

I was running Scum, so had to rely on Cad Bane.  Makes you wonder when Imperials will get a crew to do something similar with bombs

[SkullNBones 43]

I think the issue for those that ruled against this (I disagree and think it works fine) were arguing its combination with Bomblet Generator, despite the change to "Genius". It just gives you a reason to run EM with Bomblet.

[D34d guru 32]

Edt

Edited January 13, 2018 by D34d guru

[Maui. 2,815]

The trajectory simulator specifies that you can launch a bomb instead of dropping it. So if you drop a bomb using Genius, you should be able to launch it instead of dropping it using Trajectory Simulator. The launch specifically replaces a bomb drop, and Genius drops a bomb.

[Fuzzywookie 2,145]

On 1/11/2018 at 11:20 AM, USCGrad90 said:

I was running Scum, so had to rely on Cad Bane.  Makes you wonder when Imperials will get a crew to do something similar with bombs

Empire can’t have nice things. That’s why. 

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

On 1/11/2018 at 11:20 AM, USCGrad90 said:

I was running Scum, so had to rely on Cad Bane.  Makes you wonder when Imperials will get a crew to do something similar with bombs

From the unofficial TIE Fighter Anime short, maybe?

[UberMunchkin 95]

Just to echo what is being said above.  There is absolutely no reason why this combo shouldn't work.  That is totally separate to the fact that it is a BS Broken Combo and should never have been allowed.

[nj1978 23]

FYI:

Today's update for regionals

[kraedin 741]

That ruling doesn't make sense, does it? Genius "replaces the normal bomb drop"?

 

After you reveal and execute a maneuver, if you did not overlap a ship, you may discard 1 of your equipped <bomb>  Upgrade cards without the "Action:" header to drop the corresponding bomb token.

[theBitterFig 11,598]

If the TO of the FFG regional is making a RAI argument that Genius and Trajectory Simulator shouldn't work together, fine with me.  If other TOs follow on this "soft errata," likewise fine with me.

[Icelom 3,405]

The FFG regionals TO ruling is really stupid and really bad for the game. Having TO's administer vigilante justice against combo's they don't like is very bad for the tournament scene having a TO from the FFG regionals do it is even more messed up and he should know better.

 

[USCGrad90 884]

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

If the TO of the FFG regional is making a RAI argument that Genius and Trajectory Simulator shouldn't work together, fine with me.  If other TOs follow on this "soft errata," likewise fine with me.

I think the primary issue is that the FFG Regional is considered a source of higher authority based on access to the staff responsible to make decisions and clarifications on rules.  It definitely has an impact.  The regional I plan to attend had initially stated the combo was OK - after hearing that Chicago ruled it was not, but now is reconsidering.

[USCGrad90 884]

7 hours ago, nj1978 said:

FYI:

Today's update for regionals

Problem here is that Genius doesn't replace the drop, but just the timing of the drop.  If you argue TS doesn't work with Genius, you could apply logic to say it doesn't work with ANY bomb.

[ZealuxMyr 1,944]

I roll my eyes at this, the ruling makes no sense.

Best part is it's not an FFG ruling - the TO isn't part of the dev team, the eventual (2020?) FAQ may not agree with him. Nothing is official until it is in the FAQ, even if it comes "from" FFG. Example: look at the articles they publish! According to the articles K-Wings should've been able to bomb after executing their maneuver and before executing their SLAM maneuver...