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awp832

Rules: Mind Wipe

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So, earlier today I was explaining to my wife the FAQ about how enemies hit by a Mind Wipe lose their Victory, since Victory is part of the text box.   She said something interesting after wards...   She didn't think it was a good ruling because   "...after all, it's not like you blank the enemy's damage/horror."  -which is in more or less the same place on the card.

Well, that got me thinking...    ...Do you blank the monster's damage/horror?  What exactly an enemy's "printed text box" is, isn't clearly defined.     Apparently it includes Victory.   Does it include Damage/Horror?   Does Mind Wipe essentially get rid of everything except for traits?  If so, you could play it essentially as a sort of a Dodge against a non-elite enemy.    You could play it after the enemy phase begins and blank the text box of an enemy at your location, reducing its damage to nothing.   Legal?

Is there anywhere that lays out what is meant by "text box", and if that includes damage/horror?

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4 hours ago, Network57 said:

It's because Victory Points are literally text, whereas the damage/horror are icons, that just happen to be in the same box.

I wouldn't bet on that reasoning (even though I lean toward damage/horror not being blanked). In AGoT, gold/initiative/reserve modifiers are part of the text box and are blanked along with the text. On the other hand, strength and challenge icons are clearly not part of the text box.

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45 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

I wouldn't bet on that reasoning (even though I lean toward damage/horror not being blanked). In AGoT, gold/initiative/reserve modifiers are part of the text box and are blanked along with the text. On the other hand, strength and challenge icons are clearly not part of the text box.

The response from Matt linked above explicitly says it is.

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17 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

I wouldn't bet on that reasoning (even though I lean toward damage/horror not being blanked). In AGoT, gold/initiative/reserve modifiers are part of the text box and are blanked along with the text. On the other hand, strength and challenge icons are clearly not part of the text box.

Actually if you click the link to the conversation on BGG, that is exactly the reasoning given by Matt Newman, who is quoted giving the answer to that question.

Hi Gilles!

1. Damage and horror icons are not part of the enemy’s text box, so they are not blanked by Mind Wipe. Generally speaking, the text box consist of traits, abilities, keywords, and other text-based instructions (like Prey, Victory, etc).

2. In this case, it would go to the discard pile, because it’s still blanked at the time that you’re determining where it would go when defeated. Then simultaneously with it entering the discard pile, the blanking effect expires.

Hope you’re enjoying the game! Cheers,
Matthew Newman


Also from the Rules Reference:
Blank: If a card’s printed text box is considered “blank” by an ability, that text box is treated as if it did not have any of its printed content. Text and/or icons gained from another source are not blanked. =A card’s text box includes: traits, keywords, card text and abilities.

Granted this is still a little unclear and could potentially be misinterpreted, but damage and horror icons are not on the list of things the text box includes.

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1 hour ago, awp832 said:

drats.   man, this card is useless =(.

I don't use it, but I wouldn't call it useless.  You can remove Retaliate; discard The Thing That Follows after defeating it; stop Wolfman Drew from healing; prevent permadeath by a Shoggoth; use Fire Axe and Machete against a Conglomeration

Cripes, I think I've just convinced myself to add this to my next Mystic deck.

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1 hour ago, CSerpent said:

I don't use it, but I wouldn't call it useless.  You can remove Retaliate; discard The Thing That Follows after defeating it; stop Wolfman Drew from healing; prevent permadeath by a Shoggoth; use Fire Axe and Machete against a Conglomeration

Cripes, I think I've just convinced myself to add this to my next Mystic deck.

Broods, my man. The Broods are not Elite. Of course you lose the VP but you can kill them faster.

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10 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Broods, my man. The Broods are not Elite. Of course you lose the VP but you can kill them faster.

Of course.  I took that one as a given but maybe not everyone has realized it yet.

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Actually I just played with it in my deck specifically for the Broods scenario (everyone keeps saying it's good there) and I found it to be pretty much useless,  which is what prompted this in the first place.  

So, first off, you can only play it if a Brood is at your location when your turn begins, which is impossible to predict with any certainty seeing as how they move every turn to a semi-random location.  So that's bad.   Second, if you do manage to pull it off:  they lose Victory, which means that once you kill them they go into the discard pile.  And that discard pile is going to be frequently reshuffled back into the encounter deck, giving you an opportunity to draw a Brood that you already defeated again.  

so yeah, Mind Wipe is pretty useless,  even against Broods.

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53 minutes ago, awp832 said:

So, first off, you can only play it if a Brood is at your location when your turn begins

Not necessarily weighing in on the overall usefulness, but this isn't correct.  Mind Wipe can be played at the beginning of any phase, so you can move to it during your turn and then play it at the beginning of the enemy phase.

Generally, I think there are other uses:
- Remove Hunter, which can often basically kill a monster
- Remove Prey, enabling control
- Specific opponents with annoying text that weren't mentioned yet: Conglomeration of Spheres, Avian Thrall, Wizard of Yog-Sothoth, Grappling Horror, Nightgaunts...  

If Mind Wipe suffers from anything, it's that enemies are generally easier (or better) to simply kill.  But it's far from useless.

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^ If you were planning to use it to kill a brood, then it can really only be played when your turn begins.   Unless you're somehow trying to do a Mind Wipe/Hypnotic Gaze and pull a Special symbol combo,  that doesn't matter.    You knew what I meant.  Nitpicky.



Removing Hunter doesn't help because it gets Hunter back after the end of the phase.   It doesn't blank it forever, it just blanks it one phase.
Removing Prey suffers from the same problem.

Removing text from the Conglomeration so you can... melee it with a weapon?   What kind of mystic deck are you running here?
Removing text on Avian Thrall only hurts the player, so I don't know what that would be for.
Removing text on Wizard would only be useful if you personally drew a Hex or Pact card that mythos phase.
Grappling Horror could be okay.   Those things are annoying.   But not that hard to just kill either.
Nightgaunts could be maybe useful, but again.... you're mind blanking them so you can evade?  Not sure how effective this plan is.

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Bah, I was thinking it stuck.  My bad on that.  Still, disagree with some:

4 minutes ago, awp832 said:

Removing text from the Conglomeration so you can... melee it with a weapon?   What kind of mystic deck are you running here?

The kind with a Guardian backing me up?  Or that wants to keep the Athame?  This can be a multiple-action swing.

4 minutes ago, awp832 said:

Removing text on Wizard would only be useful if you personally drew a Hex or Pact card that mythos phase.

Sorry, Wizard of the Order - avoiding the Doom can be a big deal if you're struggling to kill.

6 minutes ago, awp832 said:

Grappling Horror could be okay.   Those things are annoying.   But not that hard to just kill either.

All depends on what else you have to deal with.  Essex is usually tight either way, I've lost games to these things.

6 minutes ago, awp832 said:

Nightgaunts could be maybe useful, but again.... you're mind blanking them so you can evade?  Not sure how effective this plan is.

Mystics are going to have a hard time handling 4 health if you don't have the right spell (and there aren't enough to guarantee you can always kill it).  It's a decent option to get away and put some distance between you.

 

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Hunter, Aloof, and Prey don't figure into it, that's all true.  Getting rid of Retaliate, though, could be a huge help.

2 hours ago, awp832 said:

Removing text from the Conglomeration so you can... melee it with a weapon?   What kind of mystic deck are you running here?

It lasts for an entire phase, so every investigator gets the benefit.  It doesn't have to be Agnes' Fire Axe or Jim's Machete.

Goat Spawns are excellent targets - Retaliate and a bad effect upon defeat.  Poltergeists can be killed outright.  A good many enemies are good targets in the Enemy phase - Silver Twilight Acolyte, Wolfman Drew, various Yithians, Servant of the Lurker.

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I hardly ever have found Retaliate to be much of an issue.      I do hate the Poltergeist something awful, unfortunately thus far it only appears in Curtain Call, which means that you can't Mind Wipe it (no xp).  Even if it does show up, it can't be damaged except by Spell cards... so as a Mystic you shouldn't have any problem.   I don't know why you would want to blank Servant of the Lurker...  or the Yithian Observer (is there another Yithian you were talking about?).   Wolf Man Drew you can prevent him healing 1 damage?   None of these seem like good enough to merit including this card, let alone spending XP on it.

Silver Twilight Acolyte is a maybe, although I'll say that it's awfully specific.  Most campaigns will never run into this.   If you happen to have it as your weakness, then Mind Blank is a maybe.   Probably easier just to kill this though rather than holding on to a Mind Wipe.   Or include Hypnotic Gaze instead for 0 XP, although it does have a higher resource cost. 

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Retaliate - I've had it end scenarios for me.

Yithians - there's also the Starseeker.  Interstellar Traveler is a Yithian, but its effect is when it moves, so no, it doesn't help with that one.

S. T. Acolyte - I most recently had him in a Daisy deck.  No good, especially when he appears on a draw during your turn. 

I'd almost call Mind Wipe a must if anyone's weakness is The Thing That Follows.

Maybe the XP cost makes it hard to swallow.  I can think of a lot of times that it would have been great to have, though.

Edited by CSerpent

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On 1/8/2018 at 11:46 PM, awp832 said:

^ If you were planning to use it to kill a brood, then it can really only be played when your turn begins.   Unless you're somehow trying to do a Mind Wipe/Hypnotic Gaze and pull a Special symbol combo,  that doesn't matter.    You knew what I meant.  Nitpicky.

If you play it on a brood that already has damage on it, it dies instantly because it now has as much damage on it as its health.

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15 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

If you play it on a brood that already has damage on it, it dies instantly because it now has as much damage on it as its health.

Oh, blanking the additional health isn't something I'd considered.  Probably not broadly applicable as most that do will be Elite (I'm honestly surprised the Broods aren't) but that's brilliant.

 

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