Snoke worst move villain? (Spoilers)

[Trghpu1994 56]

Is Snoke or Dooku the worst movie villain? I haven't read all of the E.U, so I can't compare them to much. At least Snoke made it to supreme chancellor Dooku just died disarmed (quite literally). Maybe it's Dooku. Snoke' character just wasn't interesting in TLJ. Just seems like a Palp wannabe but less dynamic. But TLJ seemed like and ESB wannabe. 

[jmswood 2,706]

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar?

[Ambaryerno 399]

The big problem with Snoke is that after all the mystery surrounding him in TFA, TLJ makes it all pretty much irrelevant by ending that plot thread as anticlimactically as possible (a recurring thing through TLJ. "Who's Snoke? Doesn't matter, 'cause he's going down like a punk." "Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter, they're just the sort of white trash you see getting CPA called on them on an episode of Cops").

However of the films, I'd have to say it's a toss-up between Maul and Boba Fett. The former was just a walking plot device with no characterization that people just like because he LOOKS cool, and were brainwashed into thinking his weapon was awesome (reality check: The double lightsaber is the STUPIDEST WEAPON IN THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE and anyone who says Rey should have one too needs to be taken out and bludgeoned to death with a gaffi stick. It's COMPLETELY impractical, impossible to use as a proper staff, and dangerous to use as a sword. But OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! twirly lights! @#$%ing Gillard can burn in ****). The latter wasn't EVEN a plot device. He just looked cool standing around in the background.

Of the entire franchise? The worst villain was Daala by FAR. Built up as this genius military commander, and yet she may be THE most incompetent flag officer in the ENTIRE history of the Empire. And that's saying A LOT. And EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. she was beaten she threw a temper tantrum and broke down in tears. After reading her PMS her way through four unreadable Kevin J. Anderson novels I just wanted her killed off already. And then SOMEHOW she ends up elected as President of the Alliance? GOD I'm glad I gave up on the EU after NJO.

[jmswood 2,706]

Seriously though, if the only options are Dooku or Snoke, then you have to consider the role both of them actually play. Snoke and Dooku are opposite sides of the same coin in the Star Wars universe. One is a Dark Side apprentice betrayed by his master in the scheme to turn a more powerful apprentice. The other is a Dark Side master betrayed by his apprentice craving more power. Neither of them is the primary villain in their respective trilogies. I think a lot of people overlook that last detail because they all want Snoke to be something more. 

They are both pretty bad at what they do, but that is kind of the point. 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

I think Snoke's up there with the absolute worst, not just in Star Wars but in the entirety of cinematic history.  I mean seriously, the guy did nothing but sit in a chair, monologue and grandstand until his demise.  He was literally nothing more than a parody.

[Luner_Eclipse 26]

you also have to take into consideration that J.J. Abrams directed TFA and Rian Johnson directed TLJ. They both seemed to have totally different visions of the trilogy. Also Kylo may have just said he saw her parents as basically nothing to try and turn her. quote "Kylo wanted to say something that would hurt and have the greatest chance to turn rey to his side" Rian Johnson

[Ambaryerno 399]

47 minutes ago, Luner_Eclipse said:

you also have to take into consideration that J.J. Abrams directed TFA and Rian Johnson directed TLJ. They both seemed to have totally different visions of the trilogy. Also Kylo may have just said he saw her parents as basically nothing to try and turn her. quote "Kylo wanted to say something that would hurt and have the greatest chance to turn rey to his side" Rian Johnson

That quote smacks of damage control.

[Luner_Eclipse 26]

maybe

 

[Conandoodle 1,817]

Kylo made up the story about Rey's parents. Her real parents are the main characters from BAttleFront 2 Campaign. Lock it in.

Prequels fell down by having a new bad guy every episode. Darth Maul .. Awesome. Wait, he died. Oh, who is this old guy tha has just shown up? Nevermind, he died. Wait, who is this now? An asthmatic cyborg? What the actual f...? And he's just popped out of nowhere? I truly hope Snope isn't replaced in Ep 9.

[Trghpu1994 56]

This is why I wanted to ask the community there are so many possibilities..sadly..i can't believe i forgot Grievous...wow there really have been some lame villains..I feel like Fett was Just Another Guy. The Prequels just did such a bad job with so much. I feel like the acting is better with these sequels. Even if the plot feels disjointed. I feel cheated that there wasn't a Luke and Rey vs kylo and Snoke in the next episode. 

[Trghpu1994 56]

I guess I was expecting more the first time I Saw Snoke, the first time we seePalp he is imposing and threatening. You feel the evil. You don't get that from Snoke at all. His on screen presence isn't there.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

Dooku maybe had a name that was one letter away from dookie, but at least he was played by christopher Lee, so he had some presense.

Now Snoke... Where the frag did they find this muppet? And he dies in the most hilarious way ever.

Snoke: "I can reed Ren's mind! He's turning the lightsaber in his hand. Now he pushes the activation but-ack! Well son of a-"

Wrong lightsaber, Snookie!  Outfoxed by Emo Ren. How humiliating. Palpatine would never have fallen for that trick.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Robin Graves

[Trghpu1994 56]

1 hour ago, Conandoodle said:

Kylo made up the story about Rey's parents. Her real parents are the main characters from BAttleFront 2 Campaign. Lock it in.

Prequels fell down by having a new bad guy every episode. Darth Maul .. Awesome. Wait, he died. Oh, who is this old guy tha has just shown up? Nevermind, he died. Wait, who is this now? An asthmatic cyborg? What the actual f...? And he's just popped out of nowhere? I truly hope Snope isn't replaced in Ep 9.

I agree. I thought kylo totally made that story up. Doubtful we will discover her parents tho in the next episode.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

Only good scene Snoke had was the one where he calls Kylo out for cosplaying* as Darth Vader.

 

 

 

* Almost an exact movie quote

[Trghpu1994 56]

13 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

Only good scene Snoke had was the one where he calls Kylo out for cosplaying* as Darth Vader.

 

 

 

* Almost an exact movie quote

That was a great line. There was a lot of humor in TLJ

[Trghpu1994 56]

15 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

Dooku maybe had a name that was one letter away from dookie, but at least he was played by christopher Lee, so he had some presense.

Now Snoke... Where the frag did they find this muppet? And he dies in the most hilarious way ever.

Snoke: "I can reed Ren's mind! He's turning the lightsaber in his hand. Now he pushes the activation but-ack! Well son of a-"

Wrong lightsaber, Snookie!  Outfoxed by Emo Ren. How humiliating. Palpatine would never have fallen for that trick.

 

True it's hard to go wrong with Christopher Lee.  It's hard to imagine Snoke being supreme leader of game of scrabble much less an empire

[Robin Graves 6,054]

15 minutes ago, Trghpu1994 said:

That was a great line. There was a lot of humor in TLJ

Agreed. Gen Hux single handely turns TLJ into Spaceballs in most of his scenes.

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

1 hour ago, Robin Graves said:

Agreed. Gen Hux single handely turns TLJ into Spaceballs in most of his scenes.

"But when will Ren be now?"

[Ambaryerno 399]

4 hours ago, Trghpu1994 said:

That was a great line. There was a lot of humor in TLJ

Unfortunately, most of the humor in TLJ belonged in the MCU, not Star Wars. Poe Dameron was like Tony Stark Lite.

[JJ48 7,102]

5 hours ago, Conandoodle said:

Kylo made up the story about Rey's parents. Her real parents are the main characters from BAttleFront 2 Campaign. Lock it in.

Prequels fell down by having a new bad guy every episode. Darth Maul .. Awesome. Wait, he died. Oh, who is this old guy tha has just shown up? Nevermind, he died. Wait, who is this now? An asthmatic cyborg? What the actual f...? And he's just popped out of nowhere? I truly hope Snope isn't replaced in Ep 9.

Maybe Snoke had to die so he can come back in IX and rule as a Force Ghost?  Maybe Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis, who really has found a way around death and keeps reviving?

5 hours ago, Trghpu1994 said:

This is why I wanted to ask the community there are so many possibilities..sadly..i can't believe i forgot Grievous...wow there really have been some lame villains..I feel like Fett was Just Another Guy. The Prequels just did such a bad job with so much. I feel like the acting is better with these sequels. Even if the plot feels disjointed. I feel cheated that there wasn't a Luke and Rey vs kylo and Snoke in the next episode. 

I think people are being a bit too hard on Boba Fett.  I mean, how many villains get to (very) momentarily inconvenience a hero before some blind guy accidentally knocks them into a giant pit?!

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Top 20 Star Wars movies villain ranking, in terms of menace, characterisation, story, overall impact on and contribution to the story...

1.  Darth Vader
2.  Emperor Palpatine
3.  Grand Moff Tarkin
4.  Director Krennic
5.  Kylo Ren
6.  Jabba the Hutt
7.  Boba Fett
8.  Darth Maul
9.  Admiral Piett
10.  General Veers
11.  Moff Jerjerrod
11.  Count Dooku
12.  General Grievious
13.  Captain Needa
14.  Greedo
15.  Admiral Ozzel
16.  Admiral Motti
18.  General Hux
19.  Supreme Leader Snoke
20.  Captain Phasma

Edited January 8, 2018 by FTS Gecko

[Trghpu1994 56]

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Top 20 Star Wars movies villain ranking, in terms of menace, characterisation, story, overall impact on and contribution to the story...

1.  Darth Vader
2.  Emperor Palpatine
3.  Grand Moff Tarkin
4.  Director Krennic
5.  Kylo Ren
6.  Jabba the Hutt
7.  Boba Fett
8.  Darth Maul
9.  Admiral Piett
10.  General Veers
11.  Moff Jerjerrod
11.  Count Dooku
12.  General Grievious
13.  Captain Needa
14.  Greedo
15.  Admiral Ozzel
16.  Admiral Motti
18.  General Hux
19.  Supreme Leader Snoke
20.  Captain Phasma

Nice list. Captain Phasma was mostly useless.  Why would you pick out bright and reflective armor to make you stand out on a battlefield??

[DeathstarII 1,164]

5 hours ago, Trghpu1994 said:

Nice list. Captain Phasma was mostly useless.  Why would you pick out bright and reflective armor to make you stand out on a battlefield??

Deflects blaster fire

[Derpzilla88 1,291]

6 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Top 20 Star Wars movies villain ranking, in terms of menace, characterisation, story, overall impact on and contribution to the story...

1.  Darth Vader
2.  Emperor Palpatine
3.  Grand Moff Tarkin
4.  Director Krennic
5.  Kylo Ren
6.  Jabba the Hutt
7.  Boba Fett
8.  Darth Maul
9.  Count Dooku
10.  General Grievious
11.  Greedo
12.  General Hux
13.  Supreme Leader Snoke
14.  Captain Phasma
15. Admiral Piett, General Veers, Moff Jerjerrod, Captain Needa, Admiral Ozzel, Admiral Motti.

The list needed a bit of an adjustment.

Phasma (while horribly underused and pretty much a waste so she deserves her spot near the bottom) at least served as a shadow over Finn and a reminder of his past that he eventually had to overcome.

All those admirals, captains, and Moffs were just there so Vader didn't have to control everything in every little scene, and were only there to make Vader seem more ruthless when he killed some of them off. They have no menace, no characterization outside of being an Imperial officer, and had no contributions to the story.

Everything else is fine though.

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

1 minute ago, Derpzilla88 said:

All those admirals, captains, and Moffs were just there so Vader didn't have to control everything in every little scene, and were only there to make Vader seem more ruthless when he killed some of them off. They have no menace, no characterization outside of being an Imperial officer, and had no contributions to the story.

Hmmm... I'd disagree.  The Imperial officers in IV, V and VI showed the Empire as a large, complex, bureaucratic organisation with ruthless internal politics.  This was totally epitomised by the interactions between Tarkin and Krennic in Rogue One, but was hinted at much earlier in the series, such as with Motti's talking down to Vader (and subsequent Force choke) in A New Hope.

They had subtle yet complex interactions during the story - certainly more more effective contributions to the story - then the First Order officers in VII and VIII.

Take Piett, for example.  He brings forward the location of the Rebel base on Hoth, is brushed off by Ozzil, then promoted in Ozzil's stead when he makes a second egregious error in a short space of time.  Piett survives at the end of Empire Strikes Back where his fellow officers died, as Vader assumes responsibility for the escape of the Falcon himself.  He goes on to command the Executor in Return of the Jedi (and be blamed for it's destruction in Battlefield II).

Or Veers.  Veers attempts to defend Ozzil's reckless approach to Vader, before leading the successful ground assault on Hoth.  He takes down the shield generators, allowing Vader to storm the base.

Needa tracks down the Falcon in the asteroid field, and is outwitted when it escapes.  He then shows a touch of honour as he accepts responsibility by personally apologizing to Vader (unfortunately for him, the gesture proves futile).

Now, while I will admit to being somewhat harsh on the First Order officers, the fact remains that in terms of characterisation and impact they don't match up to the officers seen in the original trilogy.  By the time The Last Jedi ends, Hux is little more than a caricature.  Poor Gwendoline gets to say a few lines, but does nothing of significance apart from lose a fight with Finn.  At least the Imperial officers showed a bit of personality, aptitude and had a couple of notable successes.

I'd probably accept ranking Motti, Jerjerrod and maybe Ozzil below the First Order's officers, but not the rest.  And that's only because Jerjerrod's defining scenes were cut.