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On 1/8/2018 at 2:47 PM, Green Knight said:

@Darth Veggie

@GhostofNobodyInParticular

@Dr alex

@Ginkapo

@BrobaFett

So you've colored yourselves not entirely disinterested, if this is a Euro-compatible game?

Aye. For me, the only limiting factor is time frame, as Undeadguy's thing and the VWC will be occupying my time for a while.

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Im an Aye, for when that bridge gets crossed.

Seems like the time frame will be fine for me. As the last 2 weeks of work have been hellish but im about to pass off the project that has been a black hole for my time to some other lucky bloke.

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According to my counting the following players wanted to participate for sure (if time zones or time slots fit), right ?

@GhostofNobodyInParticular

@Dr alex

@Green Knight

@BrobaFett

@Darth Veggie (yes, I have pinged myself. How stupid is that!?)

 

That means we need one player more. The following players have sginalled interest, but with have not made up their mind:

@rasproteus

@Tokra

@GiledPallaeon

 

As far as I can see we have the following steps to take (not necessarily in this order):

  • Determine the final set of players
  • Build teams
  • Talk about house rules

Team building should happen according to time slots (incompatible players are within the same team) and player strength, right?

Maybe, because availability might be one of the main reasons for people to join or leave, it seems to be most sensible to talk about this firs. Even if we get this flying first in a month, I start  :):

  • I could manage one game per week, but I would prefer 1 in two weeks.
  • Nearly always, availability could be arranged at: Mo-Fr 8AM-4PM (UTC)
  • Difficult, but sometimes possible: everything else.

Time to get excited! :D:D:D

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For availability:

I ought to be able to manage a CC game per week. Due to the fact that I may also have Undeadguy's campaign (I doubt I'll qualify for further advancement in the VWC :)) I too would prefer a game every 2 weeks if possible.

I am normally available from 7 PM GMT on Wednesday through Friday. Any game taking place on Saturday must take place before that time, if possible. On other days I am entirely unavailable in most cases, though exceptions may occur.

For player strength, I'd say I'm on the weaker side of average, as judged by the previous CC I participated in.

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1 game every 2 weeks is good with me. Then once all games are done in a round, we reset for a new 2 weeks.

I'm who am I. Decently skilled. But I intend to play and have fun, not abuse the **** out of the system. If anyone wants that, this is not the place.

I prefer Imps, but like rebels too.

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I’m happy with one game every two weeks, I’m equally happy with Rebels or imperials (just call me Hondo).

my availability is after 8pm GMT pretty much any day of the week with enough warning. I can’t do before that which @Darth Veggie and I are finding annoying for the World Cup, so we probably should have me and Veggie on the same side so we don’t have to try and play each other given our incompatible availability.

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Then we are complete! I have asked rasproteus in a pm whether he mind Tokra taking the last empty seat, because ras signalled interest first. But ras has too much to do anyway. Therefore this is our magic crew:

@GhostofNobodyInParticular

@Dr alex

@Green Knight

@BrobaFett

@Tokra

@Darth Veggie (yes, I have pinged myself again. My sanity gets even worse.)

 

Next step is team building. I list player stregth and availability. Please comment on that (especially if nothing is listed).

GNiP (preferred time slot: Wednesday-Friday from 7 PM GMT, or on Saturday before that time; strength: average minus; side preference: imps)

Dr alex (preferred time slot: from 8 PM UTC on; strength: [???; I have to wait for Tuesday to judge that ;); but he has been among the top 4 of the Euros, which counts a lot in my book]; side preference: none)

Green Knight (preferred time slot: [???, I see him quite often]; strength: top notch; side preference: slightly imps)

BrobaFett (preferred time slot: ???; strength: ???; side preference: strongly imps)

Tokra (preferred time slot: ???; strength: top notch; side preference: none)

Darth Veggie (preferred time slot: 8 AM to 3 PM UTC; everything later can be most likely arranged once in two weeks; strength: average plus; side preference: imps, but negligible)

 

Fun is getting closer! :D

Edited by Darth Veggie

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My time zone is GMT +1. Evenings usually, but not too late. But sometimes I can play during the day too. So generally rather flexible.

I also think we must agree on some house rules before we start, both CC and Armada rules. I for one would very much like to NOT just play a lot of flotillas and relay, because that's all I see these days. But I don't know how to fix that without upsetting the system. I want effective lists, but I also want variation and fun.

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5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

[...]

I also think we must agree on some house rules before we start, both CC and Armada rules. I for one would very much like to NOT just play a lot of flotillas and relay, because that's all I see these days. But I don't know how to fix that without upsetting the system. I want effective lists, but I also want variation and fun.

House rules? I am a house ruling maniac! However, I see that the more house rules we discuss the less likely it is that we will come to a solution. Hence, this is the short list of my proposals. And I am afraid, it is still too long. In general, I don't need any house rules to participate. So, feel free to say no to any of those.

General House Rules

1. Flotilla Spamming: One of two rules I consider to be the most important ones that they are included in the game is this one: Flotillas cannot activate squadrons that are beyond distance 3 (yes, no relay and no boosted coms). However, I think that even better for our CC campaign would simply be this one (instead of the first mentioned): Only one flotilla per fleet.

2. The Last/First-Bug: The second of the two rules I consider to hightly important: The second player can postpone his last activation until after the last activation of the first player (Pryce still beats this).

I think those two rules taken together will set free a big bang of fleet diversity.

3. Squad Variation: The following combination of squadrons are not allowed within one fleet: Stele+Jendon, Cienna+Rudor, Jan+Biggs, Tycho+Shara.

I would also love to see a change to Yavaris and Sloane in order to create more squad diversity, but at least for the latter I have no idea how to do this without making her pointless. And with her the rebels seem to me to need Yavaris.

CC House Rules

The biggest problem of CC IMO is that the strategy effects of the planets are completely unbalanced. Repair Yards are by far the strongest - and the most boring ones. I think the other ones should be house ruled that they are at least as strong as the repair yards to get more strategy into the campaign. Here are my proposals:

Spynet: Each team get two tokens per spynet planet. Everything else remains as it used to be.

Skilled Spacers: For each planet a team gets one token. The Grand Admiral assigns after assaults are declared the tokens of his team to the individual fleets. In round 4-6 they can be spent after a friendly ship has performed a maneuver. This ship instantly retreats to hyperspace.

Diplomats: For each planet a team gets one token. The Grand Admiral assigns after assaults are declared the tokens of his team to the individual fleets. As defender a token can be spent in order to remove up to two objectives from the battle (yes, even Base Assaults or other campaign objectives). Then the defender has to add at least one of the standard objectives to the battle, IF he has removed two objectives. As attacker a token can be spent in order to cancel a spent token of the defender.

And this is my short list. Sorry, that it is so long.

 

@GhostofNobodyInParticular: Sorry, for missing your already posted availability. I have updated the post.

Edited by Darth Veggie

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2 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Maybe just a gentlemans handshake, if you put a flotilla in a list it has to do something other than just pad activations. Coms net, bomber command, slicer, bright hope/toryn far etc. No naked flots, and if you dont absolutely need a fleet support try for a different ship?

I'm good with a gentleman's agreement. It's by far the most simple solution.

Stuff like don't unnecessarily spam flotillas, try to take at least some squads, don't go all over board with Strategic abuse etc.

I'm sure well see a lot of fun, diverse lists!

For the CC my main concern is the relatively pointless tokens. Early game all that matters are yards. Spynet is ok, if not amazing. Skilled spacers pretty meh. Diplomats... lolz. So maybe tweak that around a bit?

1st round base assaults tend to skew things. And what about the special assaults? Do they need tweaking?

I'm quite Ok with just rolling RAW. Just asking around.

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What about the teams?

I play more imp than Reb, but that doesn't matter. I'm good with either team.

We should try to make fairly balanced teams, if possible. Unbalanced teams is the biggest CC skew IMO.

Finally who wants to be GA?

I'd rather NOT. I just want to play.

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When it comes to skill level: there are no bad/inexperience players in this group, no?

I see you've tagged me & Tokra as grandmaster level. So maybe we should go on different teams? If the statement is true, that is :D

Broba is pretty **** good. So is Alex. You're no slouch yourself Veggie. And Ghost is no fool either.

I think that as long as we feel the teams are about even, then we're good.

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5 hours ago, Darth Veggie said:

General House Rules

1. Flotilla Spamming: One of two rules I consider to be the most important ones that they are included in the game is this one: Flotillas cannot activate squadrons that are beyond distance 3 (yes, no relay and no boosted coms). However, I think that even better for our CC campaign would simply be this one (instead of the first mentioned): Only one flotilla per fleet.

2. The Last/First-Bug: The second of the two rules I consider to highly important: The second player can postpone his last activation until after the last activation of the first player (Pryce still beats this).

I think those two rules taken together will set free a big bang of fleet diversity.

3. Squad Variation: The following combination of squadrons are not allowed within one fleet: Stele+Jendon, Cienna+Rudor, Jan+Biggs, Tycho+Shara.

I would also love to see a change to Yavaris and Sloane in order to create more squad diversity, but at least for the latter I have no idea how to do this without making her pointless. And with her the rebels seem to me to need Yavaris.

 

While we are talking sides, I don't particularly want to play Rebels. I don't particularly like Rebels, and I have sportingly played them in every campaign I've played thus far, minus the first. I will CONTINUE to play them sportingly if it means throwing balance off, but I figured in this instance I would throw that out early and see if something can be worked out.

Regarding house rules-

1. Only one flotilla is ok, but then what about things like repair crews? Or Slicer tools? Things that typically work best when used on more than 1 flotilla or limit you because then you could only take that, or BCC or coms. I think it's OK to have more than 1 flotilla, but don't be a **** and take 4 naked ones just to pad your activation. If we all agree to avoid unnecessary flotillas I think it should be flexible enough that we can play the fleet we want and also know that, because no one else will be gaming the mechanic, I don't have to either. The main reason why you have to take 3 naked flotillas is because you know there is a fairly good chance your OPPONENT is as well. If we agree not to, problem solved. IE, I have 23 points left in my list, so normally I would just take a naked flotilla and call it a day, but instead I'll take 2 tie interceptors cause I promised not to be a jerk.

2. We played some practice games with this rule for Undeadguys campaign and reversed it. It is INCREDIBLY broken for second player to always get last. It makes second player waaaaay too strong coupled with the already in game ways FFG has tried to boost second player. If you guys want to play this house rule, that's cool, but I'll step out. That is how much I disagree with this alteration to the rules. The step 1 above is enough to reduce the activation issue to the point where this should not be needed.

3. I don't mind this one in the least.

 

Mostly, the factions should police themselves. If the 2 members of a team notice the third appears to be power gaming their fleet they need to suggest some alterations (note, doesn't mean they have to build a **** fleet, just that when they show up with Rieekan aces or Ackbar megapickle token farm or a 2+3 with max squads or some other archetype or mechanics that exploits game design for wins they should be reminded this is a casual campaign with bros, not regionals)

 

I am a FIRM believer in the no base assault no special assault round 1 rule as the #1 to prevent a snowballing campaign that can't be reversed. Rebels have an easy first round base assault and have no reason not to try and steal Correllia, and Imps have a stupid easy special Assault that should mean 120 extra resources. Both happening round 1 just skews things. But having a turn for everyone to build up based on wins, rather than jank, evens it out quite a bit. Rebels still have to win their battles or retreat, because the Empire special assault will snowball them faster, but at that points it's thematic.

Additionally, I would love to see the victory points removed from the stations in the Imperial Special Assault. Not only are they pathetically easy to kill, the fact they give the IMP player 80 points typically snowballs them to the 120 without any recourse from the Rebels. The Rebel special is still more difficult, to the point that I typically insist it is better for the Rebels not to even use theirs. However, if both objectives now are potential splits, the Rebel special may be worthwhile and it should end up a lot less lopsided.

 

An interesting house rule I have been mulling around in my head is regarding the scarring mechanic. After multiple campaigns my major dissatisfaction is with how next-to-impossible it is to actually Kill-Kill a unique. My thought is to incorporate a 1-round delay on repairing scarred ships and squads. So if you lose a ship and repair it, it has to survive the next battle in order to get repaired. That might be a TERRIBLE idea. I just wish there was some way to actually incorporate a level of threat to your uniques past round 1 or 2 when points are tight. Cause once you hit 500, there is next to 0 risk that any unique will ever be truly destroyed and that doesn't seem right.

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5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

What about the teams?

I play more imp than Reb, but that doesn't matter. I'm good with either team.

We should try to make fairly balanced teams, if possible. Unbalanced teams is the biggest CC skew IMO.

Finally who wants to be GA?

[...]

I prefer Imps a bit (have played more often rebels in CC, but honestly it is not much of a thing for me either). I will include preferences in the post above.

I can don the mantle of GA. I can also do the bookkeeping for the campaign (writing down all the fleets and stuff easily accessible to all). However, I won't do both. Eats too much time.

5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

When it comes to skill level: there are no bad/inexperience players in this group, no?

I see you've tagged me & Tokra as grandmaster level. So maybe we should go on different teams? If the statement is true, that is :D

Broba is pretty **** good. So is Alex. You're no slouch yourself Veggie. And Ghost is no fool either.

I think that as long as we feel the teams are about even, then we're good.

Yes, maybe that means that Tokra and you should not be on the same side - if @Tokra considers himself to be a great player with less than four Gozanti ;)

 

28 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

While we are talking sides, I don't particularly want to play Rebels. I don't particularly like Rebels, and I have sportingly played them in every campaign I've played thus far, minus the first. I will CONTINUE to play them sportingly if it means throwing balance off, but I figured in this instance I would throw that out early and see if something can be worked out.

Regarding house rules-

1. Only one flotilla is ok, but then what about things like repair crews? Or Slicer tools? Things that typically work best when used on more than 1 flotilla or limit you because then you could only take that, or BCC or coms. I think it's OK to have more than 1 flotilla, but don't be a **** and take 4 naked ones just to pad your activation. If we all agree to avoid unnecessary flotillas I think it should be flexible enough that we can play the fleet we want and also know that, because no one else will be gaming the mechanic, I don't have to either. The main reason why you have to take 3 naked flotillas is because you know there is a fairly good chance your OPPONENT is as well. If we agree not to, problem solved. IE, I have 23 points left in my list, so normally I would just take a naked flotilla and call it a day, but instead I'll take 2 tie interceptors cause I promised not to be a jerk.

2. We played some practice games with this rule for Undeadguys campaign and reversed it. It is INCREDIBLY broken for second player to always get last. It makes second player waaaaay too strong coupled with the already in game ways FFG has tried to boost second player. If you guys want to play this house rule, that's cool, but I'll step out. That is how much I disagree with this alteration to the rules. The step 1 above is enough to reduce the activation issue to the point where this should not be needed.

3. I don't mind this one in the least.

 

Mostly, the factions should police themselves. If the 2 members of a team notice the third appears to be power gaming their fleet they need to suggest some alterations (note, doesn't mean they have to build a **** fleet, just that when they show up with Rieekan aces or Ackbar megapickle token farm or a 2+3 with max squads or some other archetype or mechanics that exploits game design for wins they should be reminded this is a casual campaign with bros, not regionals)

 

I am a FIRM believer in the no base assault no special assault round 1 rule as the #1 to prevent a snowballing campaign that can't be reversed. Rebels have an easy first round base assault and have no reason not to try and steal Correllia, and Imps have a stupid easy special Assault that should mean 120 extra resources. Both happening round 1 just skews things. But having a turn for everyone to build up based on wins, rather than jank, evens it out quite a bit. Rebels still have to win their battles or retreat, because the Empire special assault will snowball them faster, but at that points it's thematic.

Additionally, I would love to see the victory points removed from the stations in the Imperial Special Assault. Not only are they pathetically easy to kill, the fact they give the IMP player 80 points typically snowballs them to the 120 without any recourse from the Rebels. The Rebel special is still more difficult, to the point that I typically insist it is better for the Rebels not to even use theirs. However, if both objectives now are potential splits, the Rebel special may be worthwhile and it should end up a lot less lopsided.

 

An interesting house rule I have been mulling around in my head is regarding the scarring mechanic. After multiple campaigns my major dissatisfaction is with how next-to-impossible it is to actually Kill-Kill a unique. My thought is to incorporate a 1-round delay on repairing scarred ships and squads. So if you lose a ship and repair it, it has to survive the next battle in order to get repaired. That might be a TERRIBLE idea. I just wish there was some way to actually incorporate a level of threat to your uniques past round 1 or 2 when points are tight. Cause once you hit 500, there is next to 0 risk that any unique will ever be truly destroyed and that doesn't seem right.

ad 1: Well spotted. One slicer is not enough. Maybe the gentlemen's agreement is the best solution here. One thing I like to add: On the one hand side, the nakedness of the flotilla is not the problem I think (they can be a nice carrier) and on the other hand side multiple comms net flotts are nearly as much activation padding as it can get in my book.

ad 2: So you have more experience in this field than me and I trust the experience you guys in the other campaign have made. And especially I want you to be part of this :). Hence I withdraw that proposal.

ad 3: Nice! :)

I agree to the round 1 rules.

I like to give your idea of delayed repair some second thoughts.

Oh, and I agree that we need an in depth discussion about the special objectives. Forgot that in my post.

Edited by Darth Veggie

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I have to agree with Broba. 1 Flotilla is rather low. Especially when you consider that you will have a 500 point fleet. 2 would be fine. I would even agree to max 1 at start, max 2 at 500 points.

 

One idea about the skilled Spacer token (maybe to strong). How about a change that you can just remove one objective from the 3, instead of replace it? It would make the Skilled Spacer a really powerful token for normal defenses.
With Spynet i would even go to 3 token per planet.  Or even only one token, but you can redeploy your whole fleet, and not just one ship or two squadrons.

 

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31 minutes ago, Darth Veggie said:

Yes, maybe that means that Tokra and you should not be on the same side - if @Tokra considers himself to be a great player with less than four Gozanti ;)

I need 4+ Gozanti to be a good player :P

For me it does not matter if Rebel or Imperial. Timezone is GMT+1, and normally i can most days from 5 pm GMT. 

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9 hours ago, Darth Veggie said:

1. Flotilla Spamming: One of two rules I consider to be the most important ones that they are included in the game is this one: Flotillas cannot activate squadrons that are beyond distance 3 (yes, no relay and no boosted coms). However, I think that even better for our CC campaign would simply be this one (instead of the first mentioned): Only one flotilla per fleet.

But but but my 20 activation Sato Fleet???

I think a gentleman’s agreement is the best solution to flotillas, I basically hate the things but love doing janky things with slicers from time to time.

CC house rules I’ll leave to people who have CC’d before.

I’m easy with which side I’m on, I’m actually usually available from 2000 GMT not 2100 GMT.

Edited by Dr alex

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