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2 hours ago, Hannibal_pjv said:

Maybe we need faster rules ;)

Speed version.
Victory conditions:
Stronghold Victory: break one province and then stronghold
Dishonor: 0 honor, you lose
Honor: 10 honor, you win.

Reduce the starting honor by 6, so if you starting honor is normally 10, it is now 4 and so on... (or just divide by two and round down) i prefer that minus, because it maintain the faction differences better.

 

The game time should be 15-25 min with these modifications... Maybe this would be too fast... And also the deck size should be smaller... 20 cards each and max 2 of the same?

This would mean I would be starting a game at 4 honor?  That would mean I could bid 1 and still lose first turn if I play assassination and then get smacked with an air ring.  I really think that instead of trying to rewrite the rule book to make the game faster people just need to embrace this game.  It is designed to be a slower paced game; if you are looking for a game that is consistently 15-25 minutes I do not think L5R is for you.  

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56 minutes ago, Huzbek said:

This would mean I would be starting a game at 4 honor?  That would mean I could bid 1 and still lose first turn if I play assassination and then get smacked with an air ring.  I really think that instead of trying to rewrite the rule book to make the game faster people just need to embrace this game.  It is designed to be a slower paced game; if you are looking for a game that is consistently 15-25 minutes I do not think L5R is for you.  

 

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3 hours ago, Hannibal_pjv said:

Maybe we need faster rules ;)

Speed version.
Victory conditions:
Stronghold Victory: break one province and then stronghold
Dishonor: 0 honor, you lose
Honor: 10 honor, you win.

Reduce the starting honor by 6, so if you starting honor is normally 10, it is now 4 and so on... (or just divide by two and round down) i prefer that minus, because it maintain the faction differences better.

 

The game time should be 15-25 min with these modifications... Maybe this would be too fast... And also the deck size should be smaller... 20 cards each and max 2 of the same?

Yeah because we all just want to play Lion decks with Contingency Plans and Way of the Chrysthanunmumumum.......ummmmmm no thanks.

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Yep, I like this game as a long game, but there could be some varioatios to the game lenght. My example was very extreme one. The game can be easily over in one round, but there could be something in between. 

I have seen most home playes take 2-4 hours and that makes it so that not Many player end the Gaming because it is too long. I can see the home plays to be reduced to one and half with practice, but because home gamer don’t normally know what is the best way to win with their decks, it quite seldom get shorter than that.

i have not yet played this in tournaments, but if most games? End to the time, then some tweaks to winning conditions could be usefull in tournament environment.

 

Edited by Hannibal_pjv
Errore

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8 hours ago, Hannibal_pjv said:

Yep, I like this game as a long game, but there could be some varioatios to the game lenght. My example was very extreme one. The game can be easily over in one round, but there could be something in between. 

I have seen most home playes take 2-4 hours and that makes it so that not Many player end the Gaming because it is too long. I can see the home plays to be reduced to one and half with practice, but because home gamer don’t normally know what is the best way to win with their decks, it quite seldom get shorter than that.

i have not yet played this in tournaments, but if most games? End to the time, then some tweaks to winning conditions could be usefull in tournament environment.

 

Most games do not end to time already, and as more and more people play and know the cards (both their own and their opponents) less and less will go to time.

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I only went to time once out of 7 games at PAX.  And we resolved it that turn.  However, I had confidence in what I was doing with my deck.  I would suggest that if you are going to tournaments and worried about going to time, you practice some first, so you are comfortable in your typical decisions.  For example, going in I had a strategy mapped out in my head as to how much fate I'd put on people, as well as who to buy.  But doing this saves a bit of time when you buy dudes, which I think is a common hold up for people, and can eat up a minute or two extra each round.  I would also say have a general strategy for which rings you want to choose, but that is much much harder, since it really depends on the overall game state, though it does help if you can narrow it down to 2 rings, you then know which you want to choose.

But knowing some basic guidelines before hand can help you speed up your own game.  Also, if you try and play efficiently, often your opponent will try to match you.

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Heh... Last Unicorn vs. phoenix game did last 5 hours :) 

over ten rounds before the first province was destroyed and very tight fight and exspecially defense in both sides and the gameplay itself was quite fast and fun, but nothing just happened for most of the rounds. 

Both players did have less than optimal card draws. And so Phoenix player was stalling as much as possible and succeeded in it wery well. 

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Don't take this as an insult or what, but if the game last 5 hrs there is something wrong with both decks somewhere. 

probably not optimised towards a win condition or sound strategy. 

longest I had was three hours lion/crane. Crane had cinsistently what prevent a break, but not retaliate, and Lion hadn't enough staying power to field enough guys for the break. Lost 4 rounds of back and forth useless defense/assault until 

So of course both decks were not optimised, more flavor and apparently cool cards than efficient build. Took the two back to the drawing board. 

let's say the rematch was a brutal showdown, sorted in one hour (crane victory)

 

Edited by Nitenman

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I Don't take it as a insult :)

The Phoenix was very much in defend mode for the first 4 hours. Always defending, always bowing characters, and not getting right cards that could allow good offence.

Unicorn did have good run, but mostly did have only few character (big ones though) And when Phoenix always was able to bow that one big character, there was not enough firepower left to beat provinces. And finally Phoenix did get its big hitters out and wiped the playing field.

So the game was logged very badly. Normal games have been more or less like one hour, but that specific one was a marathon! Sometimes things that just don't click.

 

Edited by Hannibal_pjv

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On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎10 at 11:15 PM, Hannibal_pjv said:

Yep, I like this game as a long game, but there could be some varioatios to the game lenght. My example was very extreme one. The game can be easily over in one round, but there could be something in between. 

I have seen most home playes take 2-4 hours and that makes it so that not Many player end the Gaming because it is too long. I can see the home plays to be reduced to one and half with practice, but because home gamer don’t normally know what is the best way to win with their decks, it quite seldom get shorter than that.

i have not yet played this in tournaments, but if most games? End to the time, then some tweaks to winning conditions could be usefull in tournament environment.

 

How are home games taking 2-4 hours? My home group games usually only go 1 hour at most. Slow play is definitely an issue when timers are not included. Player skill level is definitely a factor but even when I was new to the game a game would take 1.5 hours at most (except when I first learned or am teaching how to play), this game is definitely not terribly long. While it is not quite as quick as Netrunner or Magic the Gathering, it is by no means as long as your experience has been. Tournament games for me almost always go to time but are usually at a point where there is a clear winner anyways.   

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Yep, as I said, most games have been around one hour. But sometimes there can become Locked situation when both players Are more in defence mode.

i have played long tournament games like old Middle Earth the wizard ccg. Compared to that this game is faster. But a still a Little bit long for a tournament game at this moment. But thing can change with bigger card pool, or not.

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10 hours ago, Hinomura said:

I like how you state a game took five hours then point out several days later that you took a bloody dinner break in the middle of it :D

That's some creative time-keeping there!

We did play during the break :) 

it was just taking so long that some nourisment was needed ;)

But, yeah game speed did come down somewhat when the game did take this long.

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I don't know how this game could possibly take more than 2 hours unless you spend 5+ minutes on simple decisions.  My coworkers and I have been playing on our lunch breaks over the last few weeks, and so even with the distraction of eating lunch we usually get to a clear end state even if we don't play out the last conflict or so due to time.  We've completed a few games fully, a couple others have gone to time (60min for us) but it was very clear someone was going to win next conflict/turn, and a few others were too close to call and we just called them ties.

If we had 90min to play, I'm pretty sure we'd finish 90% or more of the games fully.  We're at the cusp of finishing nearly all of them at 60min, and that's with us eating during it as well as being generally slower players.

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3 hours ago, Darguth said:

I don't know how this game could possibly take more than 2 hours unless you spend 5+ minutes on simple decisions.  My coworkers and I have been playing on our lunch breaks over the last few weeks, and so even with the distraction of eating lunch we usually get to a clear end state even if we don't play out the last conflict or so due to time.  We've completed a few games fully, a couple others have gone to time (60min for us) but it was very clear someone was going to win next conflict/turn, and a few others were too close to call and we just called them ties.

If we had 90min to play, I'm pretty sure we'd finish 90% or more of the games fully.  We're at the cusp of finishing nearly all of them at 60min, and that's with us eating during it as well as being generally slower players.

Some people take a really long time to make any decision. Also, a lot of players have no idea how to close out games. I've seen game between newer players last 3-4 turns longer than they ever should. That adds a lot of time.

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On 1/26/2018 at 7:13 PM, kiramode said:

Some people take a really long time to make any decision. Also, a lot of players have no idea how to close out games. I've seen game between newer players last 3-4 turns longer than they ever should. That adds a lot of time.

Sure, and that's more or less what I was saying.  If the game is lasting a long time it's because players are taking "too long" to make many decisions, from the perspective of a competitive and organized play setting.  I'm not sure that's a problem worth worrying about or trying to solve though *unless* the complexity is unfun.  If you're playing games that go 3-4 turns beyond what they should, you probably shouldn't be worrying about game lengths in a competitive tournament setting.  As long as you're having fun, go play your 2-3 hour game and don't worry about it.

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