The Galactic Civil War - Vassal Campaign

[CaribbeanNinja 6,207]

Flying into sector 5-3, second officer Jarrus Lorne on Audacity noticed  a freshly built Imperial mine on the planet Yelka. 

"Sir, the imperial mine is undefended."

Captain Miro grinned, "Plot a course to broadside it and support the Lancers.  We'll bomb that mine to oblivion."  

Just then, three triangular shapes burst in from hyperspace.  The ship's proximity sensor screeched.  Jarrus quickly jumped to a station and yelled "Its the Excruciator sir - and its being flanked by two Raider corvettes!  

Miro's grin quickly melted away into a stern look, "It seems that the KDF came to assist the mine after all.  Call back the Lancers. We may need to get out of here quickly if that Star Destroyer gets any closer."

"The Excruciator has plotted an intercept course and has increased speed!"

Rubbing his chin, Miro took a second to think.  He might be able to nab one of the flanking Raiders, but the Imperial Class was known for its ability to wreck fleets.  The smarter thing to do was to leave the mine, and run to safety. 

"Well then that settles it.  Signal the force to hyperspace immediately.

"Yes, sir."

Flashes appeared on the bridge as a VT-49 Decimator approached and lobbed a perfect volley of shots at Audacity's bow.  "Shields are holding sir, but not for much longer."

"Get us out of here!" Miro yelled.

Another shot came in from a Mandalorian Gauntlet fighter and hit the same spot on the bow.  

"Now Lorne!"

As the Imperial ships closed in, the task force entered hyperspace, and the bridge crew on Audacity breathed a sigh of relief.

"That was close sir.  Do you think we'll ever see them again?" Lorne asked.

Miro finally grinned again, "I'm counting on it, Jarrus."

[Visovics 1,675]

10 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Flying into sector 5-3, second officer Jarrus Lorne on Audacity noticed  a freshly built Imperial mine on the planet Yelka. 

"Sir, the imperial mine is undefended."

Captain Miro grinned, "Plot a course to broadside it and support the Lancers.  We'll bomb that mine to oblivion."  

Just then, three triangular shapes burst in from hyperspace.  The ship's proximity sensor screeched.  Jarrus quickly jumped to a station and yelled "Its the Excruciator sir - and its being flanked by two Raider corvettes!  

Miro's grin quickly melted away into a stern look, "It seems that the KDF came to assist the mine after all.  Call back the Lancers. We may need to get out of here quickly if that Star Destroyer gets any closer."

"The Excruciator has plotted an intercept course and has increased speed!"

Rubbing his chin, Miro took a second to think.  He might be able to nab one of the flanking Raiders, but the Imperial Class was known for its ability to wreck fleets.  The smarter thing to do was to leave the mine, and run to safety. 

"Well then that settles it.  Signal the force to hyperspace immediately.

"Yes, sir."

Flashes appeared on the bridge as a VT-49 Decimator approached and lobbed a perfect volley of shots at Audacity's bow.  "Shields are holding sir, but not for much longer."

"Get us out of here!" Miro yelled.

Another shot came in from a Mandalorian Gauntlet fighter and hit the same spot on the bow.  

"Now Lorne!"

As the Imperial ships closed in, the task force entered hyperspace, and the bridge crew on Audacity breathed a sigh of relief.

"That was close sir.  Do you think we'll ever see them again?" Lorne asked.

Miro finally grinned again, "I'm counting on it, Jarrus."

That is an ingenious write up  I’ll upload the logfile tomorrow morning when I’m on my PC  On second thought, do you guys want it? Nothing happened really (and I'm having trouble accessing my Google drive )

Edited February 15, 2018 by Visovics

[Undeadguy 5,749]

We might need to impose a cap on fleet building, so I was thinking of a "thematic" reason why a fleet would be capped.

You decimate your opponents fleet and end up with a 200-300 point lead for all the fleet points. Your campaign against the Empire is doing so well, Rebel command is no longer allocating resources to you for the time being. Should the Empire pressure your sector with additional forces, you will be granted access to further purchases.

Let's say Broba wrecks Moose's fleet and captures an ISD. This will cause a point differential of at least 200 points, so you may no longer purchase new ships, squads, or upgrades. Also, you're RP will be reduced by half while you are "controlling" the sector. Rather than a hard cap on a fleet, you're ability to increase your fleet is directly related to how well you are doing in the sector. 

Adding a "sector control" mechanic could also introduce some new scenarios, like the CC special missions. Hyperlane Raid for when your down, and Show of Force when you're up. Both would net you a special bonus and have certain conditions. 

 

It has been suggested that upgrades be limited to one per ship per round while you maintain "sector control". This way you are not stuck with what you have and can still adapt while your opponent scrambles trying to rebuild. I was thinking a 200 point differential, since ships take time to build and capturing a large ship can potentially swing 200+ points. 

Also, I didn't realize this before but we should probably nerf Dodonna. So he will trigger on the fleet he is in and on asteroids, but not on other friendly fleets. You guys have been going so fast I haven't been able to cover all the potential issues 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Undeadguy

[rasproteus 584]

33 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Also, I didn't realize this before but we should probably nerf Dodonna. So he will trigger on the fleet he is in and on asteroids, but not on other friendly fleets. You guys have been going so fast I haven't been able to cover all the potential issues 

Specifically addressing this point - can we "merge" fleets before a battle?  Say I send both my fleets... somewhere  next round, can I make them into a single 1000 point fleet?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

31 minutes ago, rasproteus said:

Specifically addressing this point - can we "merge" fleets before a battle?  Say I send both my fleets... somewhere  next round, can I make them into a single 1000 point fleet?

You won't be able to have a 1000 point single fleet because you'll have 2 unique commanders. But point taken, the obvious work around is to merge a 299 with a 500 and now you have 800 points of Dodonna.

So I guess that won't actually work. 

I'm open to ideas on this fix, or we just follow the CC rules. 

[CaribbeanNinja 6,207]

My 2 cents: I'd say a hard cap on fleets at 500 like CC would fix that.  You can use the to fight like in an All Out Assault, but the individual fleets cannot be above 500.

[Visovics 1,675]

One thing I was discussing with Cninj on my match is the end of match XP distribution, because for example happened twice yesterday, was hyperspacing at the very beginning to avoid the engagement, and they’d get as much XP as the one who went looking for the engagement and in result the winner, so we thought maybe ships that hyperspace can only get the end of match XP after a certain turn?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

My 2 cents: I'd say a hard cap on fleets at 500 like CC would fix that.  You can use the to fight like in an All Out Assault, but the individual fleets cannot be above 500.

I agree with this. 

Developing a fleet from 200 to 500 is a lot of growth.

1 hour ago, Visovics said:

One thing I was discussing with Cninj on my match is the end of match XP distribution, because for example happened twice yesterday, was hyperspacing at the very beginning to avoid the engagement, and they’d get as much XP as the one who went looking for the engagement and in result the winner, so we thought maybe ships that hyperspace can only get the end of match XP after a certain turn?

Yea I might impose a "retreat during or after round 4" to prevent the giant death fleets from forming because you can never actually engage. And with the Tractor Beam change, I think it will still be manageable to retreat all your forces. 

[Visovics 1,675]

I'd prefer a drastic cut on RP for the dominating ones than a hard cap, so for example you cannot gain RP from your shipyard in the contested sector if your fleets combine to more than 200 than the enemy fleet that shares the same contested sector and you also can't build mines there or gain RP from objectives. This essentially gives some decent boost for your fleet to catch up with the enemy. I kinda like the no-limit on fleets, allows for more thematic stuff

[Undeadguy 5,749]

4 minutes ago, Visovics said:

I'd prefer a drastic cut on RP for the dominating ones than a hard cap, so for example you cannot gain RP from your shipyard in the contested sector if your fleets combine to more than 200 than the enemy fleet that shares the same contested sector and you also can't build mines there or gain RP from objectives. This essentially gives some decent boost for your fleet to catch up with the enemy. I kinda like the no-limit on fleets, allows for more thematic stuff

I like the no cap too but since you can fight with 2 fleets, that's 1000 points you can have on the table. And I have no idea how long those games would take.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

I've got some new changes I've been thinking about.

• Limit 3 flotilla per fleet. 
• If a flotilla were to be disabled, it is destroyed instead. No more flotilla husks cluttering the map.
• Cap fleets at 500.
  • 2 fleets can attack or defend the same target for a combined 1000 points.
  • Shipyards can be attacked with 3 fleets, for a combined 1500 points. I have no idea how long this would take, but it would be epic.
    • Defender is still limited to 2 fleets on defense. This gives a 300 point bonus to the attacker.

This is a crazy idea, but it gets around the Dodonna issue.

• When multiple friendly fleets are in the same battle, each ship benefits from all friendly commanders. 
  • This allows for very interesting fleet builds, like Madine and Ackbar, or Thrawn and Tarkin. This campaign is already pushing the limits on what you can do with Armada, so I see no reason to go farther. \
    • It's "supported" by canon, since we see these commanders at the same location commanding the same fleet, despite being on different ships. 

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

40 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I've got some new changes I've been thinking about.

• Limit 3 flotilla per fleet. 
• If a flotilla were to be disabled, it is destroyed instead. No more flotilla husks cluttering the map.
• Cap fleets at 500.
  • 2 fleets can attack or defend the same target for a combined 1000 points.
  • Shipyards can be attacked with 3 fleets, for a combined 1500 points. I have no idea how long this would take, but it would be epic.
    • Defender is still limited to 2 fleets on defense. This gives a 300 point bonus to the attacker.

This is a crazy idea, but it gets around the Dodonna issue.

• When multiple friendly fleets are in the same battle, each ship benefits from all friendly commanders. 
  • This allows for very interesting fleet builds, like Madine and Ackbar, or Thrawn and Tarkin. This campaign is already pushing the limits on what you can do with Armada, so I see no reason to go farther. \
    • It's "supported" by canon, since we see these commanders at the same location commanding the same fleet, despite being on different ships. 

I think I prefer it when there is no fleet cap, just because you can't pull awesome or truly thematic combos at even 500 points. I can of course understand your concerns about time. For myself though, I don't mind large games so long as they look and feel awesome/fun to play. The ability to have up to two fleets work together, especially when combined with the sharing commander rule, does somewhat mitigate the limitation of the fleet cap, since you are essentially creating one 1000 point fleet with twice the flexibility of a standard fleet. Though in that case, why would you ever not have two fleets attack in tandem when you can afford it? Which somewhat counters the initial cap on fleets as the battles would likely end up being 1000v1000 anyway.

I also understand why you only allow two to ever defend a planet, since with the shipyard counting as an immobile ISD, essentially, you really only end up around 150 points down. Still, with second player also being a requirement, that nearly guarantees you being last-firsted. With a Dodonna-Sato-Ackbar combat vessel, I can't see even an ISD surviving that. So there is a potential for a very quick spiral down to defeat in this case that we must be wary of.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Other possible changes:

• Hyperspace retreat is available on round 4. 
• Reworking the map.
  • The Imp home sectors will become one. The Rebel home sectors will become one. The contested sector will become one. I like round numbers, so each sector will contain 50 planets. Maybe 25 for home and 50 for contested.
  •  No more sector exits. Shipyards will be placed on hyperlane routes that provide access to the home sectors. 
  • Fleet movements and combat will remain the same, but now all 6 players get to interact. 
  • Adding features to planets. Rich resources, asteroid belts, stuff like that.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

29 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Other possible changes:

• Hyperspace retreat is available on round 4. 
• Reworking the map.
  • The Imp home sectors will become one. The Rebel home sectors will become one. The contested sector will become one. I like round numbers, so each sector will contain 50 planets. Maybe 25 for home and 50 for contested.
  •  No more sector exits. Shipyards will be placed on hyperlane routes that provide access to the home sectors. 
  • Fleet movements and combat will remain the same, but now all 6 players get to interact. 
  • Adding features to planets. Rich resources, asteroid belts, stuff like that.

Are we implementing these now? 'Cause that might add a bit of confusion.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

17 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Are we implementing these now? 'Cause that might add a bit of confusion.

No, I'm just writing down all the possible changes. I'll consolidate all of these tonight and tag you guys to see what you like. Currently, nothing is changed, but I do want to make some changes before we move into the next round.

[Visovics 1,675]

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Other possible changes:

• Hyperspace retreat is available on round 4. 
• Reworking the map.
  • The Imp home sectors will become one. The Rebel home sectors will become one. The contested sector will become one. I like round numbers, so each sector will contain 50 planets. Maybe 25 for home and 50 for contested.
  •  No more sector exits. Shipyards will be placed on hyperlane routes that provide access to the home sectors. 
  • Fleet movements and combat will remain the same, but now all 6 players get to interact. 
  • Adding features to planets. Rich resources, asteroid belts, stuff like that.

Sounds really good, since you’re not really battling only 2 fleets and the same opponent anymore, and the planets having benefits in particular adds to some strategic aspect, but wouldn’t it kinda undermine all the searching effort from the previous rounds and all that switching mid-campaign?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

@Visovics @CaribbeanNinja @rasproteus @BrobaFett @MandalorianMoose @GhostofNobodyInParticular

Before we head into the next round, these are some changes I want to make.

• Flotillas are limit to 3 per fleet.
• Flotillas are destroyed instead of disabled.
• Fleet points cap at 500 points.
  • Limit 2 fleets per attack, 3 per attack on a shipyard.
  • Limit 2 fleets when defending.
• Retreat is available on round 4.
• Commanders work on all friendly ships OR commanders only work on the fleet they are assigned to.
• Rework the map so the Contested Sectors is a single sector with all 6 players in it. Hyperlane routes are protected by shipyards that provide access to the home sectors.
  • Sectors would be 25 planets for homes, and 50 for contested. 
    • This would require a map wipe where I will reassign mines and shipyards, but you get to keep everything you have including fleets.
• Winning a battle generates 4 XP, while retreating/losing generates 3 XP. 
• Retreating ships remain at speed, but do not move. All other retreat rules still apply - discarding dials, no attacks.

 

We don't have to make all of these changes, but these are things to think about.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Undeadguy

[Visovics 1,675]

4 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

@Visovics @CaribbeanNinja @rasproteus @BrobaFett @MandalorianMoose @GhostofNobodyInParticular

Before we head into the next round, these are some changes I want to make.

• Flotillas are limit to 3 per fleet.
• Flotillas are destroyed instead of disabled.
• Fleet points cap at 500 points.
  • Limit 2 fleets per attack, 3 per attack on a shipyard.
  • Limit 2 fleets when defending.
• Retreat is available on round 4.
• Commanders work on all friendly ships OR commanders only work on the fleet they are assigned to.
• Rework the map so the Contested Sectors is a single sector with all 6 players in it. Hyperlane routes are protected by shipyards that provide access to the home sectors.
  • Sectors would be 25 planets for homes, and 50 for contested. 
    • This would require a map wipe where I will reassign mines and shipyards, but you get to keep everything you have including fleets.
• Winning a battle generates 4 XP, while retreating/losing generates 3 XP. 
• Retreating ships remain at speed, but do not move. All other retreat rules still apply - discarding dials, no attacks.

 

We don't have to make all of these changes, but these are things to think about.

I’m still not so fond of the gap, but I’m fine with it. I’m ok with all the changes if they are to be implemented

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

I'm fine with most, but still am somewhat against the fleet cap. However since it is your campaign we are playwriting, I shall naturally go along with any changes you wish to make. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by GhostofNobodyInParticular

[Undeadguy 5,749]

7 hours ago, Visovics said:

I’m still not so fond of the gap, but I’m fine with it. I’m ok with all the changes if they are to be implemented

What gap do you refer to?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

5 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I'm fine with most, but still am somewhat against the fleet cap. However since it is your campaign we are playwriting, I shall naturally go along with any changes you wish to make. 

Removing the fleet cap is an easy fix. Once you hit 500, we can just do away with it depending how the games feel. 

[Visovics 1,675]

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

What gap do you refer to?

Sorry, meant cap  

[Undeadguy 5,749]

16 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

@Visovics @CaribbeanNinja @rasproteus @BrobaFett @MandalorianMoose @GhostofNobodyInParticular

Before we head into the next round, these are some changes I want to make.

• Flotillas are limit to 3 per fleet.
• Flotillas are destroyed instead of disabled.
• Fleet points cap at 500 points.
  • Limit 2 fleets per attack, 3 per attack on a shipyard.
  • Limit 2 fleets when defending.
• Retreat is available on round 4.
• Commanders only work on the fleet they are assigned to.
• Rework the map so the Contested Sectors is a single sector with all 6 players in it. Hyperlane routes are protected by shipyards that provide access to the home sectors.
  • Sectors would be 24 planets for homes, and 50 for contested. 
    • This would require a map wipe where I will reassign mines and shipyards, but you get to keep everything you have including fleets.
• Winning a battle generates 4 XP, while retreating/losing generates 3 XP. 
• Retreating ships remain at speed, but do not move. All other retreat rules still apply - discarding dials, no attacks.

 

We don't have to make all of these changes, but these are things to think about.

I will be implementing these changes now, and then I'll let you guys submit your purchases soon. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

@MandalorianMoose @CaribbeanNinja @Visovics @BrobaFett @rasproteus @GhostofNobodyInParticular

Hey guys, I'm been thinking of some updates to the rules. 

1. Commanders, titles, and the extra cost for aces will not count towards your fleet points. So Biggs will cost 13 points. This lets you squeeze more into 500 points.
2. Objectives are reduced to 3 as normal.
3. Standby would allow fleets to move to a contested planet. So if you're ally is 1 fleet down, like Rasproteus is now, you could move a fleet to that planet and support them. 
   1. This is to encourage people to commit to battles instead of fleeing because they accidentally stumble upon 2 fleets. 
   2. I would limit 1 fleet per player to go on standby. This would effectively allow you to explore with the power of 2 fleets, but still defend your shipyard in case it gets attacked.
4. The squad value for a fleet is increased by 1.5, or remove the rule all together.
   1. If you happen to lose a lot of ships and reduce your squad value, you also won't be able to deploy those squads if you fight another battle. This is a compounding loss to a fleet, because you lose the ships AND the squads, despite the squads still being in a fleet. I'm not sure how to fix this and make it feel enjoyable and thematic. 

These changes would happen BEFORE round 6. So nothing changes right now.

[BrobaFett 4,209]

So regardless of changes, Rasp and imp sector patrol 2 are both still gonna be facing 2 fleets vs 1? So 2 of the 3 games played this turn are going to essentially consist entirely of running away and trying not to get wrecked, while I am the only player that doesn't get a battle this round, again?

Just want to confirm that this is what you are saying.

Edited March 1, 2018 by BrobaFett