The Galactic Civil War - Vassal Campaign

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

There's your like.  I'm fine with everything you have all decided on.

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

I’m sorry I’m so bad at coordinating all the not-actually-flying stuff guys... I’m a Timmy at heart and just wanna blow stuff up... In our local CC campaign I never actually ever saw our map once.... my team would just tell me who I’m fighting and I’d set up a time with my opponent and go play lol

[Undeadguy 5,749]

13 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I’m sorry I’m so bad at coordinating all the not-actually-flying stuff guys... I’m a Timmy at heart and just wanna blow stuff up... In our local CC campaign I never actually ever saw our map once.... my team would just tell me who I’m fighting and I’d set up a time with my opponent and go play lol

No worries. I'll be posting sectors and fleets movements and any relevant information in this thread so it's easy to plan.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

Ras and I are starting our first turn now.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

And it ended in an utter victory for @rasproteus!

My GSDs went wide, so ate red dice for 6 turns. The Goz came within 1 damage of killing the GR-75, but didn't manage it, even with the help of the squads. My GSDs eventually hyperspaced out after failing to do any damage to the AFs and being unwilling to be disabled then boarded. He eventually killed my disabled Gozanti.

Thus, the final score is 10-1, MoV 400. He went first and we played my Opening Salvo. 

 

Here's the log.

[Visovics 1,675]

The Battle for the Shipyard will begin in around 10 minutes!

[Visovics 1,675]

Successful defense of the shipyard! The rebels hyperspaced away with only 2 casualties (x-wings) as the Imperials of the Garisson defended with some more deaths ( 2 Bombers, a Phantom and a Gauntlet) but after much roaming on the outskirts of the range of the station’s firepower and its protective Star Destroyer, the rebel ship fled to hyperspace before any exchange of fire between ships could be made 

Logfile: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iMgMeGhcZTa7h_ka9JE_G2_C6bPARQ4f

Edited February 11, 2018 by Visovics

[Undeadguy 5,749]

@Visovics @CaribbeanNinja @rasproteus @BrobaFett @GhostofNobodyInParticular @MandalorianMoose

Now that combat is over, Teremity and Imp Patrol Fleet 1 will move back to their respective shipyards. Let me know who earned XP and how you want to distribute your 3 XP among your fleet in the faction chats.

Next, we have resupply and purchase phase. I'll let you know how much RP you will have this round. 

 

Also, I forgot to add 2 rules for hyperspace retreat. Squads that do not retreat in a ship are not destroyed at the end of the battle. They will return to their fleets. And ships that declare a retreat are removed from play at the end of the round. 

Let me know if you think this is fair and what you thought of the current combat rules.

[Visovics 1,675]

6 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Squads that do not retreat in a ship are not destroyed at the end of the battle. They will return to their fleets. And ships that declare a retreat are removed from play at the end of the round. 

I’m good with that,  means that you only hyperspace out with boarding squad if you want to get it out of there earlier than end of battle, sounds good to me

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

5 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

@Visovics @CaribbeanNinja @rasproteus @BrobaFett @GhostofNobodyInParticular @MandalorianMoose

Now that combat is over, Teremity and Imp Patrol Fleet 1 will move back to their respective shipyards. Let me know who earned XP and how you want to distribute your 3 XP among your fleet in the faction chats.

Next, we have resupply and purchase phase. I'll let you know how much RP you will have this round. 

 

Also, I forgot to add 2 rules for hyperspace retreat. Squads that do not retreat in a ship are not destroyed at the end of the battle. They will return to their fleets. And ships that declare a retreat are removed from play at the end of the round. 

Let me know if you think this is fair and what you thought of the current combat rules.

Do they still retreat if they are killed? Since that was the only reason I hyped them - they would have been killed at close range of boarding-equipped enemy vessels.

If not, then there isn't really much point in hyping out threatened ships, since they're going to die anyway.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

4 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Do they still retreat if they are killed? Since that was the only reason I hyped them - they would have been killed at close range of boarding-equipped enemy vessels.

If not, then there isn't really much point in hyping out threatened ships, since they're going to die anyway.

Does what retreat? 

For simplicity, squads will retreat automatically, but there is a mechanic to pull them from the game to keep them alive, which is the squad retreat.

But ships will need to declare a retreat to survive the battle, or meet the altered end of game rules where your ships are no longer engaged and the winner has higher MoV. If you lose in that fashion, all your stuff will retreat.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

18 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Does what retreat? 

For simplicity, squads will retreat automatically, but there is a mechanic to pull them from the game to keep them alive, which is the squad retreat.

But ships will need to declare a retreat to survive the battle, or meet the altered end of game rules where your ships are no longer engaged and the winner has higher MoV. If you lose in that fashion, all your stuff will retreat.

Sorry, I meant ships. If I declare I'm retreating, but have to stay till the end of the round, then the opponent can still fire upon, disable, and board my vessel.

Which nullifies the point of retreating - if you ship is in no danger, why retreat?

So if my ship is supposed to retreat and is disabled, does it still hype out? What if it's boarded? I assume not. Which raises the question, why retreat?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

15 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Sorry, I meant ships. If I declare I'm retreating, but have to stay till the end of the round, then the opponent can still fire upon, disable, and board my vessel.

Which nullifies the point of retreating - if you ship is in no danger, why retreat?

So if my ship is supposed to retreat and is disabled, does it still hype out? What if it's boarded? I assume not. Which raises the question, why retreat?

To prevent the loss of a fleet if things go south quickly. 

If a ship is threatened, you can attempt to retreat with it, but it might be better to martyr it and take the loss. But if a ship is at no risk of going down, you may as well stick around.

Disabled ships do not retreat, and thus boarded ships will not retreat. When it's disabled, it discards command dials and cannot have any, and to retreat you must discard the top dial.

 

You don't have to retreat. You could play very aggressively and threaten your opponents flagship instead to make them retreat. You guys are generating enough RP to replenish a crippled fleet so you could just take the loses. But I also want to provide the option to bounce out if you want. Like Ninja stumbling onto a shipyard and facing down an ISD. You're not ready to take on that much so you should be retreating. 

What would you want to change about it? 

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

30 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Disabled ships do not retreat, and thus boarded ships will not retreat. When it's disabled, it discards command dials and cannot have any, and to retreat you must discard the top dial.

I know already disabled ships can't. I meant a ship discards it's dial to retreat, then gets killed in the same turn, thus becoming disabled. Presumably it can no longer retreat, right? I.e. the retreat is canceled.

My apologies for being unclear.

Quote

What would you want to change about it? 

I do not know. I definitely agree that retreat has its place. On the one hand, I understand the desire to have it stick around. On the other, that means that the primary use for retreat (as I see it) is countered. . .

I definitely think that dead ships shouldn't retreat (my question above). That seems to be the only way short of ramming that prevents retreat.

Having used retreat in my game to deny ras points, I know it can be annoying to have an otherwise dead ship slip away in an unpreventable manner.

 

For now, I would say your proposed method is better than the previous. It will merely require us to assess potential risk a turn before. Please don't take my questions as criticism of your efforts. Mostly I'm reacting to the loss of a strategy that upon reflection is better left unused.

Edited February 12, 2018 by GhostofNobodyInParticular

[Undeadguy 5,749]

16 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I know already disabled ships can't. I meant a ship discards it's dial to retreat, then gets killed in the same turn, thus becoming disabled. Presumably it can no longer retreat, right? I.e. the retreat is canceled.

My apologies for being unclear.

I do not know. I definitely agree that retreat has its place. On the one hand, I understand the desire to have it stick around. On the other, that means that the primary use for retreat (as I see it) is countered. . .

I definitely think that dead ships shouldn't retreat (my question above). That seems to be the only way short of ramming that prevents retreat.

Having used retreat in my game to deny ras points, I know it can be annoying to have an otherwise dead ship slip away in an unpreventable manner.

 

For now, I would say your proposed method is better than the previous. It will merely require us to assess potential risk a turn before. Please don't take my questions as criticism of your efforts. Mostly I'm reacting to the loss of a strategy that upon reflection is better left unused.

Correct, if a ship declares a retreat and becomes disabled, it can no longer retreat.

Any advice is good advice  My concern is the prevalence of Tractor Beams if retreating becomes the norm. Then you are forces into never retreating and losing stuff, but that's why there is so much RP generation. 

Still trying to find the balance, so all of this is a learning experience. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

The real mistake was my proof reading x.x

I had intended for the rules to state what I have revised now, but I didn't catch it so now you guys played it "incorrectly" despite following the rules. 

[BrobaFett 4,209]

Hey @Undeadguy I know we got all our stuff in, and I am itching to fight my first battle, are we ready for the next round?

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

58 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

Hey @Undeadguy I know we got all our stuff in, and I am itching to fight my first battle, are we ready for the next round?

That eager to stand trial for crimes against the Empire are we?

[BrobaFett 4,209]

Just now, MandalorianMoose said:

That eager to stand trial for crimes against the Empire are we?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

1 hour ago, BrobaFett said:

Hey @Undeadguy I know we got all our stuff in, and I am itching to fight my first battle, are we ready for the next round?

Yea I'll input the last changes I got tonight after work. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Here are the movements:

Round 3
Fleet	Location
Task Force Alpha	2:3
Task Force Beta	2:6
Imp Sector Patrol 1	2:5
Imp Sector Patrol 2	2:3
Audacity	5:3
Teremity
Infernum Maximus	5:10
KDF	Stand By
Claw Fleet	8:3
Scar Fleet	8:3
Campaign Fleet 1	8:3
Campaign Fleet 2	8:3

 

And the Contested Sector Maps:

Sector 2
Planet 1			Planet 2			Planet 3
						Alpha
						Shipyard	Imp Patrol 2
Planet 4			Planet 5			Planet 6
				Imp Patrol 1
							Beta
Planet 7			Planet 8			Planet 9
Planet 10			Planet 11			Planet 12
	Planet 13				Planet 14

 

Sector 5
Planet 1			Planet 2			Planet 3
						Audacity		Mine
Planet 4			Planet 5			Planet 6
KDF
Planet 7			Planet 8			Planet 9
Planet 10			Planet 11			Planet 12
Exit	Infernum Maximum
						Shipyard
	Planet 13				Planet 14

 

Sector 8
Planet 1			Planet 2			Planet 3
						Scar Fleet	Campaign Fleet 2	Mine
						Claw Fleet	Campaign Fleet 1
Planet 4			Planet 5			Planet 6
Planet 7			Planet 8			Planet 9
Planet 10			Planet 11			Planet 12
	Planet 13				Planet 14

 

Everyone will have a game to play.

Task Force Alpha stumbles upon an Imperial shipyard and Imp Patrol 2 at 2:3.

KDF was on Stand By and reacts to Audacity discovering the mining base on 5:3. KDF is now stationed on 5:3 and will fight Audacity. 

Scar and Claw Fleet move to protect the Rebel mine on 8:3 and finds 2 Imperial fleets in orbit. 

Infernum Maximum finds a sector exit on 5:10.

[Visovics 1,675]

WOHOOO MAY THE BLOODBATH BEGIN! FOR THE EMPIRE!

[Undeadguy 5,749]

I added clarity to the shipyard defense.

1) In a shipyard defense, I assume we play normal initiative rules? If so I take the total cost of all forces, or just Fleet II?

2) The garrison is 200 points, right? 1/3 Squads? Large ships allowed? You haven't updated the rules thread.

3) We play with an objective as well, right?

4) Does the shipyard follow normal obstacle placement of beyond distance 1 of other obstacles, or only beyond distance 5 of both edges?

 

1. Defending player will be second, attacker will be first. 

2. Correct, 200 points, no uniques, and 1/3 squads.

3. No objective, since it's a more powerful station defense. 

4. Second player gets to place the station after all other obstacles are placed, beyond range 1 of other obstacles and beyond range 5 of both edges.

 

The rules have been updated to reflect these changes. They seem reasonable, but feel free to object 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Undeadguy

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

Hopefully, the shipyard defense against rasproteus will be starting in a few minutes.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

I've made quite a few clarification edits to retreating and shipyard defense.

• Defending shipyards also have a garrison.
  • Add 200 points with of ships, squadrons, and upgrades to your forces. Mark these with an objective token to designate garrison forces.
    • You may add any non-unique character to the garrison. Squads are limited to 1/3 of the garrison force.
    • Before deployment, you may select any Garrison Forces to be "docked" at the station. Set these ships and squadrons aside. Any Garrison Forces not set aside are deployed as normal with the rest of the fleet.
      • When the shipyard activates, it may deploy 1 set aside ship at range 1 of the station or 2 set aside squadrons at range 1 of the station.
    • Any upgrades in the Garrison Force must be assigned to Garrison ships. You may not equip Garrison upgrades to your other fleets.

• If you are defending a shipyard during the Combat Phase, you are second player and the attacking player is first.
  • No objective is selected for a shipyard defense.

• Ships can be prevented from Retreating under the following conditions:
  • A ship is targeted by Phylon-Q7 Tractor Beams and the ship is forced to reduce speed.
  • A ship is targeted by G-8 Experimental Projector.
  • A ship starts is activation at 1-2 of a G7-X Grav Well Projector token. If the retreating ship is at 1-2 of the token after the ship moves, the ship still retreats successfully.

• Squadrons at range 1 of a retreating ship may board and retreat.
  • Up to 2 enemy squads at range 1 can attack the retreating squadron for free with dice modifiers.
  • Squadrons that do not retreat in a ship are not destroyed if you lose the battle. They return to their fleet.

I hope this clears up a lot of questions you may have. I actually think we are close to a final rule set since the other parts have been going smoothly. 

Sorry for any inconvenience your fleets had to go through before this update. Growing pains