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TheJrade

How is your group handling the canon-breaking aspects of Episode 8?

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I am not going to broach the subject of whether or not Ep8 was a good movie here, but I am curious as to how everyone else's group is handling the aspects of the movie that blow a big hole through some of the narrative drama of the rest of the movies & cartoons of the canon (also not going to address Legends here).  In particular:
 

If hyperspace can be used as a weapon, why would anyone invent Death Stars when a pineapple at light speed is more than enough to obliterate a planet?

If lightsabers can be flicked on and off like flashlights, why does anyone use them like swords?

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18 minutes ago, TheJrade said:

If hyperspace can be used as a weapon, why would anyone invent Death Stars when a pineapple at light speed is more than enough to obliterate a planet?

Canon was already broken. An orbital bombardment with a mass driver would do just as much damage and that takes a lot less work than hitting a comparatively small target from light years away. No hyperspace needed.

Also, the Death Star was more than just a planet killer. It was a symbol of the might and strength of the Empire.

 

18 minutes ago, TheJrade said:

If lightsabers can be flicked on and off like flashlights, why does anyone use them like swords?

That's just the game mechanics in action. "I've got a triumph, I want to turn my saber on and off when we're Saber Locked, throwing my opponent off balance and upgrading his next check."

Boom, sorted.

Edited by Desslok

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There are already a few threads dealing with this topic but it usually devolves from game mechanics into a discussion of whether the movie is good or not and why. I’d say do as 2P51 suggested and allow yourself to disclude elements that might break the game/make it not fun etc. 

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3 hours ago, Khazadune said:

There are already a few threads dealing with this topic but it usually devolves from game mechanics into a discussion of whether the movie is good or not and why. I’d say do as 2P51 suggested and allow yourself to disclude elements that might break the game/make it not fun etc. 

Oh, he’s aware. He asked one of the same questions in one of those threads.

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3 hours ago, TheJrade said:

If hyperspace can be used as a weapon, why would anyone invent Death Stars when a pineapple at light speed is more than enough to obliterate a planet?

This was covered in the big thread.

Basically, until we see it done again, it's probably really really really hard. Like technically doable with extensive work in lab like conditions, but nearly impossible to just up and do on the fly.

From what we've seen hyperspace works kinda like the DeLorean in Back to the Future. You get it up to speed, the hyperdrive kicks in, and you're then no longer there.

To get that catastrophic effect you have to impact at that exact fraction of a second where you've gotten up to speed, the hyperdrive has kicked in, but you haven't entered hyperspace.

For reference, see Rogue One. You hit the button too late, and you just bounce right off using something not far off from the existing collision rules.

Jump too late, and you enter hyperspace before hitting the target, missing completely.

In game terms, this is an "Impossible" check with plenty of upgrades and to get that kind of success you need multiple Triumphs (or you can be an NPC and the GM can just handwave it.)

 

I know, I know:

Quote

But if it's so hard, why did Holdo even try it?

Why not?

She didn't have a whole lot to lose at that point, so she might as well go for broke. If she jumped too late, it would still be a big capship vs capship collision. If she jumped too early, she's in hyperspace and the Resistance shuttles are just as screwed as if she'd done nothing at all.

4 hours ago, TheJrade said:

If lightsabers can be flicked on and off like flashlights, why does anyone use them like swords?

.... as opposed to just get up close and flick them on and off at each other?

I suppose you could.

Pistols are also only good at close range, and not very accurate, so why didn't this catch on?

Duckfoot_Pistol-1024x552.jpg

 

Just because something works doesn't mean it's practical.

As a sword (aside from being super dramatic) you can also do other things like deflect shots, parry attacks, sunder opponents weapons, and of course there's the intimidating visual of a dude with a bloody laser sword.

Remember, Jedi were peacekeepers, problem solvers, and negotiators. The lightsaber was probably 80% badge of office and 20% weapon for the majority of the Jedi orders... Jedi...ing....

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Regarding lightsabers, remember that they also make very useful defensive weapons, able to intercept blaster fire (the far most common form of personal attack that most lightsaber users are going to encounter) thanks to the precognitive abilities of their wielders that are akin to comic book Spider-Man's "spider sense" in that they only get a few second's notice in the heat of battle.  So having the lightsaber on all the time helps with being able to react timely to an incoming attack, as that's precious seconds you're not spending on igniting the weapon when hostiles are shooting at you.

Plus, Kylo was in the middle of being grappled, imposing a limit on his mobility options and thus not leaving him a lot of room to really swing a lightsaber about.  Plus, having just caught the weapon when it was tossed to him by Rey, he likely only had a narrow moment of opportunity to capitalize on his foe being off-guard, so it was faster and easier to just do the "on then off" ignition than try to get free and then go for a slashing attack.

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8 hours ago, TheJrade said:


If lightsabers can be flicked on and off like flashlights, why does anyone use them like swords?

I don't know, I think every game I've ever been in where we had lightsabers, or something like them (GURPS force swords, psi-knives that are the sum total of one's telepathic power, etc.), someone has used the "I snap it on in his side/face/whatever" as a surprise move at some point. If it's a good enough move for Wolverine...

In the current RPG, it's an excellent move for the lightsaber wielder with Quick Draw and a few ranks of Quick Strike.

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8 hours ago, TheJrade said:

If hyperspace can be used as a weapon, why would anyone invent Death Stars when a pineapple at light speed is more than enough to obliterate a planet?

Nothing you're implying remotely happened.  Such silly hyperbole requires a response with math.

The Rebel ship was, what, roughly a kilometre long?  And say 200 meters height and width?  I think these are generous numbers.  So that's roughly 1000 x 200 x 200 = 40 million cubic meters.  You could easily fit 5 pineapples length, width, and height-wise in a metre, so each cubic meter would hold 125 pineapples...again, super generous.  So the Rebel ship was a 5 billion-pineapple bomb (40 x 125 x 1 million), and while it cut a nice swath through the First Order flagship (and wasted a few others besides), it didn't exactly take out a planet, never mind the 5 billion planets one might be led to believe it could have based on your "question".

The math doesn't lie:  people complaining about the "hyperspace bomb" are 5 billion times crazier than a Kowakian monkey lizard.

 

 

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As several of the commenters here are no doubt aware, I’m not entirely sold on some elements of this movie but I guess I am completely unaware of the problem with flicking on the lightsaber and having it slice through him. I mean, we see this happen when Han dies. This is what I would expect a weapon made of plasma to do when it meets with anything short of cortosis, xilo hide or another lightsaber. To me, it’s not a problem. And it’s really not a problem in a game where I shoot someone half a dozen times with what would have really been lethal blows because there are RPG elements at work. If I can’t point blank execute the Mandalorian with a blaster, I can’t with a lightsaber. 

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In regards to the word canon, canon within a work of fiction and the details surrounding a particular genre, is laid down by those who own it.  So the movie can't break canon, it can only make it, or amend it, but it's the owners decision.

In regards to specific weapons, I don't think Star Wars has ever 'aimed' for futurism per se in its portrayal.  That of course doesn't mean it isn't possible to write things into a story that create a narrative headache later on when you invariably run into the 'why don't you do that again' issue, or 'how come you only ever ran out of gas once', etc.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, TheJrade said:

If lightsabers can be flicked on and off like flashlights, why does anyone use them like swords?

You do know that there's already a lightsaber technique, where switching it off on the parry is used to get behind said parry? It also has a name, though at the moment I can't recall it.

And using the ignition for the thrust is also quite common.

As to why use them like swords: because it's problematic to stab someone standing two meters away by ignition only and defending against the cut is difficult with the hilt alone ...

 

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53 minutes ago, Sunrider said:

As to why use them like swords: because it's problematic to stab someone standing two meters away by ignition only and defending against the cut is difficult with the hilt alone ...

The quality of criticism directed at this movie is staggeringly low, isn't it?

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I'll be honest. As soon as I found out HoM had bought the SW rights I thought Oh S***... and for me I was right... They tossed aside 30+ years of (a lot of) stuff and could have selected parts of it to make something as memory forming when I first went to Star Wars - I stood for what seemed like ages with my parents and sister freezing my **** off in early '78 waiting for the doors to open.

My son would say at each SW game - you don't question Star Wars :lol: but seriously though it's an RPG. It's entirely up to each GM what they allow and disallow. What makes me both laugh and facepalm for the younger/social media generation of gamer is questions like this.. all we had was White Dwarf (before it became WHFB and WH40K monthly), Dragon and Dungeon magazines. We didn't bother discussing stuff like this - WE JUST GOT ON WITH IT!!! LOL and here I am discusing it - *facepalm*

Disney has f***** the canon, the fanbase and what Lucas created. I was half expecting musical scenes like Do You Wanna Build A Deathstar or ForceAwakensupercalifragilisticexpialidocious....

I'm just going to wait for Ep9 to come out as a Camrip DVD and I couldn't care less about the Han Solo film - why don't they just take the HS Adventures or Trilogy and make them? Oh well, I've just spent the last few days watching in this order Rogue 1, Ep 4,5,1,2,3, and 6... i may watch Ep7 but I doubt it. I'm happy in my 70s and prequel time warp, setting each Edge/F&D/AoR campaign or adventure '...about a week after a devastating Rebel attack on a major Imperial Military Facility...'

I think the main reason we all come to these forums is we're passionate about SW and gaming.. it's a volatile mix... move along, move along..

Edited by ExpandingUniverse

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Unfortunately, anything released by His Royal Mouseness is ex cathedra canon and can, ipso facto, not break itself. 

Aside from that, at my table anything from the OT is actionable per se for the players, all else is GM's Ukaz.

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26 minutes ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

Disney has f***** the canon, the fanbase and what Lucas created. I was half expecting musical scenes like Do You Wanna Build A Deathstar or ForceAwakensupercalifragilisticexpialidocious....

You see it is this kind of attitude that doesn’t rhyme with a love for the (now legends) EU or at least it shows a very rosy tinted approach to what that consisted of. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

Unfortunately, anything released by His Royal Mouseness is ex cathedra canon and can, ipso facto, not break itself. 

Aside from that, at my table anything from the OT is actionable per se for the players, all else is GM's Ukaz.

Yup... we regularly blow up the door controls to either open or seal a blast door etc  unless we need to hotwire for 'plot reasons'

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46 minutes ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

I was half expecting musical scenes

The thing is - Eventually, Empire vs Rebels again and again and again will get dull, so I would love for Disney to do some batshit crazy Star Wars flicks. Straight out comedy? Assuming it was well done - **** yeah. A low budget spaghetti western-ish Boba Fett rolls in and f's up two warring clans by setting them against each other with Ennio Maccaroni doing the score? Absolutely. A heist movie like Snatch? Sure! So yeah, bring on a big, bold, brassy West Side Story-like musical.

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