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jigoku.online seems to be the platform best embraced by the community, the automations help a lot, it's really great.

Unfortunately I and many friends have witnessed a toxic environment forming with many players giving rage quits for any reason, from taking an I can Swim or Way of Crab to simply going out on the 2nd or 3rd round without explanation.

the L5R has always been a gentleman's game, and would be nice to the community if players had the good sense to, for example:

- Do not enter a game in competitive mode if you do not intend to play until the end, everyone knows that this game takes from 40 to 90 minutes each game.

- If for some reason you need to quit or you think defeat is imminent, at least concede victory to your opponent, do not be a jerk.

- If you just want to learn or test decks, this is why there are beginner and casual modes, again, this is a slow tiresome game, many people only have time to play a match on the day or the week, respect that.

- Be polite, cost nothing and do well for the game.

- No matter your clan, win and lose with honor, know how to lose, no one wins every match and that's what the training is for.

 

Sorry for the outburst, I know that most of the community already does all this.

Edited by L5RBr

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Jigoku definitely has that problem. I even had a guy quit after I would not let him do an action that he had missed and the game state had changed. He said he was going to win anyway so it was pointless to continue.... Anyways, I think Jigoku has that problem because it is online and people online tend to act different than in real life unfortunately. If you want to play against people who are relatively competitive and who will not flake out (or if they do they will likely get a lot of flak for it) then I recommend joining the L5R Discord. There are a lot of great people on there and there is great discussion about all aspects of L5R (way more than on the forums and reddit combined). *Okay, that was a plug basically :P

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Yeah I agree with LifeGain.  The problem isn't with the game or the platform.  The problem is with anonymous gaming on the internet.  The behavior you described is a thing I've struggled with time and time again with anonymous online gaming.  If you want to improve your experience then join an online community and find quality players.  The L5R Discord is probably the best place to go to find people at this point.

I think this is happening more on Jigoku than TTS or OCTGN because the ladder two take more work to utilize.  You'd not only need to seek out and learn to use these programs, but then you'd need to actively seek out opponents.   Jigoku by contrast is so simple and accessible that it allows for this sort of bad behavior, but it's a fixable problem on your end if you want to up the quality of your games.

Edited by phillos

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The only times I will play Jigoku against others are with people I know, and we are usually chatting online as well during the game.

Nothing is wrong with Jigoku, people just can give the absolute minimal investment in the opponent online with no recourse, so these bad habits just come out.


 

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Honestly I get it. I was fully invested in the game, have played way too much over the last few days and now I'm sick of it and seriously, genuinely deeply regret the time, money and effort spent up to this point on a game that makes you feel terrible more often than not, assuming you bother to put in the 10+ hours to learn it to be a moderately crap player online. This game can be a gruelling experience and why do I have to sit there feeling bad for the next 45 minutes when I can just leave? Just as easy as clicking on a post. Boom. You win, congrats, you played Fate Worse Than Death on my guy or your Clouded my Hiroue or you realised that Policy Debate is a gross card and yes, you can play 3 of them in a turn with no recourse or cost whatsoever and break my spine.

This game doesn't feel rewarding or fun, it feels like a slog that is decided within minutes of sitting down and just takes ages for that eventuality to play out.

Also, it's easy to have an elevated position as a Lion player. It's a very easy-come easy-go world where your Ujiakis/LPB/FGG cards appear and resolve, and you win, or when they don't, and you don't.

Edited by Daigotsu Steve

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Well you know. Common Courtesy is a thing when playing online or in person. Also thinking your way out of a problem is part of the game. I see people load up turn one run into something they don't like and just leave on second turn. Even when im losing horribly i try and play it out. If i can't I will concede to my opponent and tell them "didn't draw X or Y" or you got me with that last flop gg".

There are games on there where people see you are about to win and say "i have to leave can't finish game" then they just leave. Don't say GG, don't concede or even admit they are defeated, nothing they just leave. I find that incredibly rude. There have been games where the opponent is smashing me to bits then i get a good turn or they run into the wrong province and the game turns for me... 20-30mins into the game i'm getting beat horribly but i hold on.. the second it turns against them they just leave... WHAT is that?

When you play ANY game there is a social contract to be cordial. Just because people can hide behind a screen doesn't mean they don't have to care about not being a ****. I know people will say 'well i invested time and i'm not having fun 20 mins in..." i'm sure the first 20 mins you were playing and crushing your opponent it was "fun" the second the tides turn oh no.. no more fun for me this is a waste of my time let me just DC or leave game. 

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I don't know how being a Lion player has anything to do with wanting games to be cordial. Everyone wants that I would assume. Lion can get curb-stomped just like everyone else. Their clan, and in turn their cards, play a certain way. If every clan was the same level of difficulty or too similar then the game would get very dull. Sure, they are not as complicated as say Scorpion, but that is part of their appeal. They focus on doing really well in one conflict-type and rely on that success to lead them to victory (very thematic). If you wanted a game you could become a master of in a short time, you picked the wrong game from the start. I consider myself a relatively good player, but I know I can become better (and that is after putting in 100+ hours researching, listening to podcasts, etc...) I love that the game is not just pick a clan and auto-win. The pilot is the biggest factor.

Edited by LifeGain

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1 hour ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

 You win, congrats, you played Fate Worse Than Death on my guy or your Clouded my Hiroue or you realised that Policy Debate is a gross card and yes, you can play 3 of them in a turn with no recourse or cost whatsoever and break my spine.

Also, it's easy to have an elevated position as a Lion player. It's a very easy-come easy-go world where your Ujiakis/LPB/FGG cards appear and resolve, and you win, or when they don't, and you don't.

 

I think is sad you think that there's no turnback after getting clouded the mind or a fate worse than death and are so disappointed with the game, but if you are so truly disappointed why keep playing and taking the fun off the other people who enjoy it?

I think the game is amazing, and there's nothing to do with being a Lion player, in Jigoku I almost never play Lion, I like to play all the other clans a lot, the Lion I play in real life with my friends.. Just have some courtesy and respect to the other players..

 

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9 hours ago, LifeGain said:

Jigoku definitely has that problem. I even had a guy quit after I would not let him do an action that he had missed and the game state had changed. He said he was going to win anyway so it was pointless to continue.... Anyways, I think Jigoku has that problem because it is online and people online tend to act different than in real life unfortunately. If you want to play against people who are relatively competitive and who will not flake out (or if they do they will likely get a lot of flak for it) then I recommend joining the L5R Discord. There are a lot of great people on there and there is great discussion about all aspects of L5R (way more than on the forums and reddit combined). *Okay, that was a plug basically :P

It depends because things on Jigoku are automated I have had opponents that missclicked on stuff and it happened to me too. Or just one click and suddenly you passed. In real life, this would not have happened because you would have to actually speak the words. As long as they do not remember it 3-4 actions after I will generally allow it to be done manually.

Edited by blackheartz

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FWIW I play every game under the competitive mode and haven't really experianced much poor sportsmanship.

As for early exits, I'm okay with them. If a Crab gets an Asassination/Way of combo turn 1 you're probably dead. You get cucked like that and then get a bad dynasty draw what's the point? The Crab player learns nothing by running the ground out and you learn nothing by getting your butt beat for 45 minutes.

Granted, games being decided that early are few and far between, but they happen. If someone wants to ssave everyone time and quit early that's fine. Just type in GG and move on. Ultimately you need to get as many games in as you can to learn a deck. And the best way to learn is on even playing fields.

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6 hours ago, blackheartz said:

It depends because things on Jigoku are automated I have had opponents that missclicked on stuff and it happened to me too. Or just one click and suddenly you passed. In real life, this would not have happened because you would have to actually speak the words. As long as they do not remember it 3-4 actions after I will generally allow it to be done manually.

Sorry. Should have clarified. It was not a misclick. He forgot to do an optional action like trigger a province (I can't remember what exactly it was). If my opponent misclicks I try and find a way to work it out.

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On 12/29/2017 at 9:17 AM, Daigotsu Steve said:

.... or you realised that Policy Debate is a gross card and yes, you can play 3 of them in a turn with no recourse or cost whatsoever and break my spine.

You know, my wife and I are gaming only with the Core cards since we haven’t purchased any of the newest cards. Our 3 other friends who also game with us are enjoying the game, with the atmosphere being mainly relaxed and playful...  But I certainly can see the power level of Police Debate and I certainly can argue that it should be one per Conflict. 

Which, once again, leads me to wonder as to how this card (among 3 other cards IMO) missed identification and/or input from play testers and made it to release without much drawback. 

Edited by LordBlunt

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To be fair, the downside of Policy debate is that each subsequent use of it gains you less information and pulls a less powerful card.  You're motivated to wait between turns so they can restock their hand, then you can pull a stronger card (potentially), as well as see what's new in their hand.

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So far I've only had one "negative" encounter on the site, and that was mostly just a sudden change in tone after a casual game to being more competitive.

 

Otherwise, even in the games I just spectate, everyone goes out of their way to keep things civil. But I've only seen games labeled "casual".

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8 hours ago, AradonTemplar said:

To be fair, the downside of Policy debate is that each subsequent use of it gains you less information and pulls a less powerful card.  You're motivated to wait between turns so they can restock their hand, then you can pull a stronger card (potentially), as well as see what's new in their hand.

Someone wins a lot because of Policy Debate.

"The cards downside is the more you crush them for free the less of them there is to crush. Balanced."

9 hours ago, LordBlunt said:

You know, my wife and I are gaming only with the Core cards since we haven’t purchased any of the newest cards.

Which, once again, leads me to wonder as to how this card (among 3 other cards IMO) missed identification and/or input from play testers and made it to release without much drawback. 

Stick to playing it with your wife. This is a fun casual board game.

In fairness to playtesters, I know some and its a rough gig. I imagine plenty of them DID point to how much PD should be a once a round thing at best but their inputs are very often ignored.

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5 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Someone wins a lot because of Policy Debate.

"The cards downside is the more you crush them for free the less of them there is to crush. Balanced."

 

I didn't say it was balanced, but I will say that if someone unloads 3x Policy debate on you, they're doing you a favor by not playing for the long game. Unless it's the end game already, of course. In which case, hopefully you're ahead because you haven't done the same thing.

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9 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Someone wins a lot because of Policy Debate.

"The cards downside is the more you crush them for free the less of them there is to crush. Balanced."

Stick to playing it with your wife. This is a fun casual board game. 

Oh absolutely! This game should very much be treated as a board game. Playing casually with friends during game night is as far as we will take it with our group. When and if multiplayer rules come out, we will make sure to give those a try. But playing competitively, flying/attending different conventions/gatherings for the purposes of “testing my killer deck against all comers!” I would never take part in or encourage anyone to do; many cards are NOT balanced and become more so with the newly released cards. (of which Policy Debate is certainly guilty of, as a glaringly clear example in my eyes) 

An excellently designed game, with great mechanics, unbelievably well drawn cards, exceptional play between opponents (one of the best back and forth actions that one may experience in a card game!), and a solid game background that keeps developing with each release... but balanced cards and well designed these cards are not. Can’t have it all. ?        ?

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On 12/29/2017 at 10:15 PM, kiramode said:

As for early exits, I'm okay with them. If a Crab gets an Asassination/Way of combo turn 1 you're probably dead. You get cucked like that and then get a bad dynasty draw what's the point? The Crab player learns nothing by running the ground out and you learn nothing by getting your butt beat for 45 minutes.

Know what you CAN gain, though? The experience of figuring out how to come back from a Turn 1 AssCrab Combo. Because it's possible. And if you don't learn how to handle that, than you're not going to grow as a player.

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I actually think this behavior derives from the popularity of stuff like Hearthstone and such.  Given that you cannot communicate with your opponent in any meaningful way, it doesn't discourage this sort of behavior.  But due to the anonymity and lack of interaction, even I find that this affects how I play.   I play Eternal, and have found without the interaction I start raging when my opponent doesn't play for 10 seconds.  And I think a lot of people are coming into L5R with this mindset, at least while playing online.

Edited by Mirith

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2 hours ago, twinstarbmc said:

Know what you CAN gain, though? The experience of figuring out how to come back from a Turn 1 AssCrab Combo. Because it's possible. And if you don't learn how to handle that, than you're not going to grow as a player.

I think the big take away here is that we should be referring to the Assassination / Way of the Crab combo as AssCrab!

I prefer real life games so we can rewind to the point where things went sideways and see if there are other lines of play that could have been made.  Online, I don't have a problem with people who quit early if the game seems lost.  I wouldn't do that unless I was under some other time constraint or I caught my wife out of the corner of my eye doing some sore of Kachiko impersonation in the.............................bye nerds...................and hello nurse.:o

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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