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Poet74

Dune

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Yaaaaaas!

Dune actually has quite a lot of "supernatural" stuff going on in it to make it more than spaceships and lasers.

Obviously there is "the Voice", but also the Weirding Way, Mentat Training/Computation, Prana Bindu physical conditioning and training, and other variations on that, genetic memory stuff, Melange-induced precognition, Face Dancers, all kinds of other Tleilaxu technology that is basically magic, even telekinesis in the Sisters of Rossak depending on how deep into the Dune EU you want to go...

Do eeeet!

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I think with that response I have too! I would stick the original books for the most part. Depends when you set your campaign. I might pull from the  trilogy that has the Butlerian Jihad and battle of corrino. Mostly because I like Errasmus. 

My problem with dune has always been trying to figure out why a diverse group would work together. There are some ideas like trying to overthrow Paul or Leto. You could have one party member actually be a face dancer mimic <depending how much you like hostile party dynamics that could be fun>. You could even cross Paranoia and Dune and have a whole party of gola who were raised separately and are working together to find out there past while doing dangerous jobs for a crazed mentat.

 

In all seriousness it would depend on what your planned campaign is where you would pull your genre. It is stated that people with powers are very, very rare. Also the difference between a pranu-bindu trained fighter and a rank and file shoulder is like the difference between a slingshot and a howitzer. 

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4 minutes ago, yeti1069 said:

Dune would be awesome!

My biggest basic stumbling block would be how to flavor (mechanically) the steep downside to ranged attacks due to personal shields.

Perhaps treat Shields as armour  {10 soak per point} vs ranged weapons and have special interaction rules for Las Guns and shields. 

The "slow weapon" talent allows you to treat shield armour value as soak when using melee weapons?

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2 hours ago, Poet74 said:

My problem with dune has always been trying to figure out why a diverse group would work together.

I don't recall the details, but in the original book there were mentions of another community of smugglers that lived independently of the two Houses.  You could develop them as Arrakis' version of old Hong Kong or Casa Blanca. There could be agents of either House there. There could be ex-House members who fled service. Fremen could frequent the settlements as traders or renegades from their own communities.  You could even make up reasons for other House members to be there as smugglers or agents.

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1 hour ago, Tear44 said:

Perhaps treat Shields as armour  {10 soak per point} vs ranged weapons and have special interaction rules for Las Guns and shields. 

The "slow weapon" talent allows you to treat shield armour value as soak when using melee weapons?

I am still learning the system do forgive me. But I would say you would have to treat shield penetration as a called shot or only allow advantage count to penetrate at all. 

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1 hour ago, Sturn said:

I don't recall the details, but in the original book there were mentions of another community of smugglers that lived independently of the two Houses.  You could develop them as Arrakis' version of old Hong Kong or Casa Blanca. There could be agents of either House there. There could be ex-House members who fled service. Fremen could frequent the settlements as traders or renegades from their own communities.  You could even make up reasons for other House members to be there as smugglers or agents.

They mention bands of smugglers now and again. Would be a good hook. It would also be appropriate for players to not be up front. All of the factions always had ulterior motives. Very rarely did anyone ever stray to far from their loyalties. Party tension knowing that the bene Gesserit in the group may be a plant or that the smuggler could be a face dancer or the fremen in the group could call you out for offending the honor of their sietch.

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10 hours ago, Poet74 said:

I am still learning the system do forgive me. But I would say you would have to treat shield penetration as a called shot or only allow advantage count to penetrate at all. 

Forgive me as I am no Dune expert; but I thought that attacks through shields had to be moving at slow speeds to breach through them. Mostly I am recalling the duel with Gurney before they left for Dune.  To me that sounds like special training. So a talent, But I could see Adv or Tri doing similar.

But that is just me, and the above was just an off the cuff suggestion that feels right-ish. I don't remember all the details of shield tech other than Las and Shield equals near Atomic level destruction for both.

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Agree w/ @Tear44 here. It's pretty clear in the books that knowing how to successfully fight against a Shield requires special knowledge/training.

But also, keep in mind there are partial shields in the world too. And for game balance purposes it would probably be best if these were much more common than the full body ones, but of course still rare/expensive (10K for a partial?).

Keeping in mind that Wounds aren't even actual major physical damage to ppl (that's Crits), and in the interest of game balance, I would think the full-body Shield mechanic would be modeled off of a high number of ranks in Parry and Reflect, and not just complete immunity but if the cost is enough, who knows? And different partial Shileds could yield varying levels of Deflection and Defensive, maybe?

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6 minutes ago, emsquared said:

Agree w/ @Tear44 here. It's pretty clear in the books that knowing how to successfully fight against a Shield requires special knowledge/training.

But also, keep in mind there are partial shields in the world too. And for game balance purposes it would probably be best if these were much more common than the full body ones, but of course still rare/expensive (10K for a partial?).

Keeping in mind that Wounds aren't even actual major physical damage to ppl (that's Crits), and in the interest of game balance, I would think the full-body Shield mechanic would be modeled off of a high number of ranks in Parry and Reflect, and not just complete immunity but if the cost is enough, who knows? And different partial Shileds could yield varying levels of Deflection and Defensive, maybe?

I like that idea, but aren't Reflect and Parry Strain balanced?  Would you reduce the cost there?

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Personally, I'd add a new combat skill, Shieldfighting, based on Br, for eras where personal shields were a widespread thing. While the core universe of Dune is rich, I think player focused stories would be better suited to the Scattering and adventures you find out there. All that unexpored territory and unknown factions vying for new territory, new allegiances away from the core worlds, possibly encountering SPOILERS.

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23 minutes ago, Jimmifett said:

Personally, I'd add a new combat skill, Shieldfighting, based on Br, for eras where personal shields were a widespread thing.

IMO it should be like a Tier 2 or 3 Talent - a valuable character resource, something only someone likely dedicated to melee most/all the way thru would take. Not just something that a Social or Mechanics oriented character would drop some xp on whenever they want because it's convenient to have.

Talents are what separates different PC play styles from each other, and making it a Skill takes away from that, and from the significance of the Shield as an iconic symbol of the setting.

Unless you're playing a campaign where youre all heads of Houses and their Sword Masters, Shields should not be very common at all, and so making it a Talent isn't at all harming any player who doesn't/can't take the Talent. It just allows that Sword Master to shine in the spotlight when it's appropriate.

1 hour ago, Tear44 said:

I like that idea, but aren't Reflect and Parry Strain balanced?  Would you reduce the cost there?

For balance purposes, I'd say it should still take some Strain - maybe just a flat 2 or 3 per round (instead of 3 for every "activation"?), or maybe even the free Manuever? I dunno, would take some play testing.

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Read the original trilogy about 30 years ago. I do have the Dune Encyclopedia plus the Dune board game. Was just rewatching the mini-series recently. I was thinking I  may do something down the road but will continue with my spy game for now.

Edited by mouthymerc

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On 12/28/2017 at 7:08 PM, Poet74 said:

I am still learning the system do forgive me. But I would say you would have to treat shield penetration as a called shot or only allow advantage count to penetrate at all. 

In star wars FFG there is an actual item that creates a shield. I have zero knowledge of Dune however maybe this will help:

PERSONAL DEFLECTOR SHIELD

Though rare, bulky, and difficult to use, personal deflector shields are one of the few defenses that can stand up to blaster fire. Deflector shields use limited ray/particle shielding that deflects and blocks incoming projectiles. They are difficult to use because the power drain is extraordinary, meaning they only work for a limited length of time. When the wielder is using a personal deflector shield, the GM can spend any ☤☤ the wielder generates to have the shield run out of power for the remainder of the encounter.

The shield has enough power to last about ten minutes. Recharging a deflector shield requires three hours and electrical facilities.

Modern galactic companies do not generally produce personal deflector shields. The technology to make one that does not emit enough radiation to kill an organic user is very rare, and those that exist are almost always custom-built.

  • Encumbrance: 3
  • Rarity: 8
  • Price: 10,000
  • Categories: Heavy
  • Soak: 0
  • Defense:2 (2 setback die)

Source(s): Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook, Page 170

 

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On 12/28/2017 at 6:08 PM, Poet74 said:

I am still learning the system do forgive me. But I would say you would have to treat shield penetration as a called shot or only allow advantage count to penetrate at all. 

I think that's a good idea; I think if it were me, I'd say that the person would have to score... three advantage in addition to a hit in order to penetrate the shield and then doing normal rolled/figured damage.

 

 

On 12/29/2017 at 4:56 AM, Tear44 said:

Forgive me as I am no Dune expert; but I thought that attacks through shields had to be moving at slow speeds to breach through them. Mostly I am recalling the duel with Gurney before they left for Dune.  To me that sounds like special training. So a talent, But I could see Adv or Tri doing similar.

But that is just me, and the above was just an off the cuff suggestion that feels right-ish. I don't remember all the details of shield tech other than Las and Shield equals near Atomic level destruction for both.

Yes, that's right.  The trick was that the shields deflected fast-moving objects like bullets and people swinging or kicking but that if you were slow enough, it'd penetrate.  This was not only shown in the duel as you point out, but came up several more times; I think once they talked about an assassins weapon which fired projectiles at a high rate but could slow enough so as to get through.  Also when Paul was dueling the Fremen warrior who challenged him, they point out that the Fremen who were watching the battle thought at first Paul was toying with the warrior; Paul was just that good that his strikes would have killed the warrior several times over, but at the last moment of the strike, Paul would "hesitate" (i.e., slow his strike in order to penetrate a body shield) thus allowing the warrior to dodge out of the way.  The Fremen weren't accustomed to shield-fighting and Paul, at that time, was.  Once he became aware of the inappropriateness of his shield-fighting style, he quickly dispatched the warrior (can't for some reason remember his name).

Anyway, I think it was a neat detail that was included.

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On 12/28/2017 at 3:44 PM, Sturn said:

I don't recall the details, but in the original book there were mentions of another community of smugglers that lived independently of the two Houses.  You could develop them as Arrakis' version of old Hong Kong or Casa Blanca. There could be agents of either House there. There could be ex-House members who fled service. Fremen could frequent the settlements as traders or renegades from their own communities.  You could even make up reasons for other House members to be there as smugglers or agents.

Factions seen in just the first novel:

  • House Atreidies
  • House Harkonnen
  • House Corrino (Imperial House)
  • Spacing Guild
  • CHOAM
  • Suk School
  • Bene Gesserit School
  • Ginaz School (Duncan Idaho's school)
  • Mentats
  • Fremen
  • Smugglers
  • Bene Tleilaxu

All of the above remain important all the way through Sandworms & Hunters ("Dune 7"), but we add even more: 

  • The Jihad
  • the wounded Jihadi survivors
  • Fish Speakers
  • Honored Matres
  • The Ixians
  • City Fremen
  • Caladanian Atreides (vs the Arrakisian Atreides)

Keeping in mind that the Dune setting can be VERY much more than just revolving around Arakkis,  there are other houses mentioned in various ways that could be expanded into a different campaign... especially with the rise of the Jihad and the fish speakers.

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On 3/10/2018 at 11:30 PM, theReplicant said:

Yes, that's right.  The trick was that the shields deflected fast-moving objects like bullets and people swinging or kicking but that if you were slow enough, it'd penetrate.  This was not only shown in the duel as you point out, but came up several more times; I think once they talked about an assassins weapon which fired projectiles at a high rate but could slow enough so as to get through.  Also when Paul was dueling the Fremen warrior who challenged him, they point out that the Fremen who were watching the battle thought at first Paul was toying with the warrior; Paul was just that good that his strikes would have killed the warrior several times over, but at the last moment of the strike, Paul would "hesitate" (i.e., slow his strike in order to penetrate a body shield) thus allowing the warrior to dodge out of the way.  The Fremen weren't accustomed to shield-fighting and Paul, at that time, was.  Once he became aware of the inappropriateness of his shield-fighting style, he quickly dispatched the warrior (can't for some reason remember his name).

Anyway, I think it was a neat detail that was included.

Jamis. 

“I was a friend of Jamis,” Paul whispered.


He felt tears burning his eyes, forced more volume into his voice. “Jamis taught me ... that ... when you kill ... you pay for it. I wish I’d known Jamis better.”

 

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7 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Factions seen in just the first novel:

  • Bene Tleilaxu

The Bene Tleilaxu are in the first book? Where? I remember being a bit confused about who they were when they showed up early in Messiah. 

 

 

 

Edited by Forgottenlore

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20 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

The Bene Tleilaxu are in the first book? Where? I remember being a bit confused about who they were when they showed up early in Messiah. 

In the notes in the appendices on the origins of twisted mentats (like Piter). They appear in active characters only later in Messiah, but the appendices in the editions I read listed them in re Piter.

Edited by AK_Aramis

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