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Tom Cruise

[Third Edition Release!] Dark Heresy (Warhammer 40,000) in Genesys

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Still alive, for the record! Disheartening to see FFG ditch their RPG division, but I still plan to keep plugging away at this. Haven't checked out the new(ish) player's guide in any real detail yet, might have to see if anything in there is worth cannibalising, especially the magic stuff.

I have a week off from work coming up soon so hopefully I'll get some work done then!

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As long as my dice don't wear out, I think I will stick with Genesys whether it's officially supported or not.  Especially with awesome settings like this one already fleshed out... or flesh torn off, or whatever.  ;) 

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On 1/2/2020 at 8:42 PM, Illspecko said:

On the subject of lethality, is there any ideas of implementing optional "High lethal" critical tables like this one, which is based on DH2's critical tables? It does look just a bit too lethal for my tastes, I'm thinking of having the deadly/daunting effects on 11+ and thus have the pc's be able take one critical hit with a low risk of death, as long as the weapon doesn't have lethality.

I have thought about implementing nastier crit tables, and maybe dividing them up by damage type (I'd leave it to the GM and players rather than typing each weapon manually though). I don't like the idea of adding in locational damage too though, that feels like adding an extra layer of crunch which is totally unnecessary in my eyes. In my mind extra dice rolls should have a very good rationale for their inclusion, and in a game as light and narrative as Genesys, locational crits feel a bit much. 

 

On 2/20/2020 at 2:21 AM, Warklaw said:

I may take a stab at getting a roll20.net character sheet and dice roller set up for this version of the game, as personally most of my games these days are done using that tool. Of course I will be heavily borrowing from the Genesys one, which heavily borrows from the Star Wars one. I am a team of one though so it may take some time. I also intend to create a dice set symbol set around more dark heresy themes... unfortunately it looks like we may lose FFG RPG support in the near future.

Is there anything the existing Genesys dice roller wouldn't do just fine? This setting doesn't really do anything to the dice mechanics. A sheet would be pretty nifty though, to include some of the extra character stuff this conversion adds in.

A new set of symbols does sound like a cool idea, but I'm not so sure if it has much utility, it'd be nice thematically but would probably create a bit of confusion. FFG dropping support isn't going to make the dice symbols disappear after all, and if physical dice supplies dry up I've already seen 3d printer files for Genesys dice circulating. 

Edited by Tom Cruise

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Posted (edited)

I've made some progress on the roll20.net character sheet. If you use roll20 you can find the files (HTML, CSS, Translation, API Script) you need here: https://github.com/Warklaw/DHGenesysRPG

Let me know if you find any issues.

Progress:

- All DH specific skills uploaded (Medicae, Tech Use, Psychic Powers, Lores)

- CSS updated with Dark Heresy themed images (borrowed some looks from Tom's PDF).

Next up: (though currently notes could be used for any of these)

- Add Subtlety and Influence to Group page

- Update Critical tab to include other DH traumas and add Malignancy and Mutation roller and Mental Trauma trackers.  

Character Details +++++++++

Preview.PNG

Vehicle Sheet +++++++++++++

Preview_Vehicle.PNG

 

 

 

Edited by Warklaw

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On 2/23/2020 at 10:10 PM, Tom Cruise said:

Is there anything the existing Genesys dice roller wouldn't do just fine? This setting doesn't really do anything to the dice mechanics. A sheet would be pretty nifty though, to include some of the extra character stuff this conversion adds in.

A new set of symbols does sound like a cool idea, but I'm not so sure if it has much utility, it'd be nice thematically but would probably create a bit of confusion. FFG dropping support isn't going to make the dice symbols disappear after all, and if physical dice supplies dry up I've already seen 3d printer files for Genesys dice circulating. 

Sure the normal dice roller could probably be made to work, but the character sheet and API combination is pretty awesome to play with... and a psuedo star wars skin just doesn't cut it for me. Plus in modifying the code all the new skills are set as they should be... though they can still all be turned on and off with the other Genesys skills if wanted.

The dice, are absolutely just a passing fancy and not needed, and you are correct.. could cause confusion. I may include an admin switch in the sheet and roller to run DH themed dice on or off. That said I updated the actual Roll 20 Genesys roller a while back with better looking dice and some corrections, but at this point the pull request has not been accepted.

DiceSymbols.PNG

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Awesome work on that sheet! Symbols are looking pretty nice too, although I feel like the Advantage and Triumph might be a little busy for the small scale they'll often be displayed at. Triumph would be pretty easy to simplify, not so sure about advantage though, hard to convey the wreath imagery at a lower detail. Haven't got any solid ideas for alternatives though, will have a think.

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Posted (edited)

So through the last few days I've been digging through these rules and messing with getting the Roll20 sheet working (first time doing such things) and I have to say I'm very grateful for the work that has been put into all of this. I miss Dark Heresy but find the original rules a bit overly crunchy for my current tastes, and my friends and I have been talking about going back to it for years. This week we are finally making that happen and my thanks goes out to everyone who has ever been involved in all of this. It's a nice bright spot of joy during the quarantine.

 

Great work folks!

Edited by Orlandun

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Now that everyone's stuck inside and my work schedule has wound back a bit, I'm going to try to get back into the swing of this and get everything ready for the full release of the updated version.

I'm still plugging away at the psychic power chapter, which I think is a good opportunity for me to integrate the new magic mechanics from EPG, if any of it looks relevant. I've been out of the loop with Genesys for a while, so I'll have to give it a look through, but some of the powers seem relevant. Talents and stuff like that from EPG I might hold off on integrating so that things aren't delayed even further, but down the track I'll look into what I can steal.

Also, the new version of Wrath and Glory is out, so I'll have to see what I can mine from that content wise. It looks like a biiiig improvement over the previous release. 

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Yeah, the new version of WAG looks way better than the previous one. Visually, at least. I'm still not that big of a fan of the Tier system, or by the inclusion of Aeldari and Orks.

Anyway, I've paused the proofreading until you got back. Let me know if I can be of any help, and I'll gladly assist where I can. ;)

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Posted (edited)

Here's the next few psychic powers. Chugging along!

Looking at the EPG magic rules, Predict covers the same kind of ground as Augury, so I might have to look at how I can revise Augury to implement some ideas from Predict. Or wholesale replace it if Predict is better. Mask I think could work as a Telepathy power, but it's kinda already covered by some of the effects of Compel, not sure if I want a whole extra power dedicated to illusions. Transform doesn't really have much application in 40k so I think I'm safe to leave that out entirely. 

As for the magic talents I'm sure there's some good ideas in there to borrow, will look through at some point and port over the relevant stuff, or even just throw together a quick document summarising what you should and shouldn't use from EPG.

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Edited by Tom Cruise

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Alright here's the first draft of the completed Psychic Powers chapter overhaul. This is quite a big shift from the current release PDF version; it's entirely self contained now, to minimise flipping between the Genesys CRB and the Dark Heresy book.

Not a ton of mechanical changes, just expansion on the flavour text and player/GM guidance, and a few little mechanical tweaks here and there. I added a couple of extra effects to Augury, lifted from the Predict power in Genesys EPG.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HdgkjlpgeSAdoHFr1t7_vlgCGfxfMj8z

Onto Corruption, then Trauma, then we're done!

I do want to go back to the talents chapter and bulk it out down the track; there's a few good ideas in Wrath and Glory, and EPG probably has some stuff to lift too. But in the interests of releasing a complete PDF this century, I think I'll restrain myself 😛

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Well, I'm all for minimizing flipping through separate books. 😄

I think the symbols in the header of table 7-1 on page 179 are missing.

 

I have a question about the difficulty and, subsequently Perils, of the Warp. As the rules are now, every Psychic test automatically upgrades the first difficulty dice to a Challenge dice. I've been looking at the difficulty table you posted in the 1e edition thread. Do you think it would make it 'unfair' if Psychic Powers would only have Challenge dice instead of Difficulty dice? I'm approaching this from the lore point of view. While this would make the tests significally harder, it also ups the danger the more difficult the test becomes (as in higher chances of rolling a Despair).

RknVOAC.jpg

Having a look at the Perils of the Warp table, I feel that a +5 increase on the roll for rolling 2 Threat is okay, but I feel it's a bit weak for a Despair. I think having a second Despair should add +10. What do you think? Right now, I'm not really feeling the danger when a Psyker atempts to use a power. (I kinda like the dread that goes hand-in-hand when a Psyker picks up those dice. 😈 )

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Posted (edited)

Very much appreciated, been keeping up with the updates.   I noticed a few earlier posts, but wanted to clarify that even though FFG is dropping their RPG division, Asmodee is already amping up for continuing the work.   So, expect developments in the coming months from them.  Not sure how the forums are going to be, if they are going to rebrand, or if they are going to shuttle them here, and move to the asmodee forums.   Till then, business as usual on our end at least, but definitely keep backups for anything you don't want to lose.

Edit: Forgot to say, my bet is that its going to continue here, because Asmodee keeps links to the companies they own on their site and links directly.   So FFG is linked from them, and will likely put money into RPG thus allowing them to either do it IN house, or OUT of house.   Likely there will be a big announcement of their future plans, we shall see.   I hope its more like the Black Industries to FFG jump for Dark Heresy, rather than the Star Wars D20 to FFG jump that wiped out much online content requiring a lot of work to find archives of it.

Edited by Mathadar

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Veruca said:

I think the symbols in the header of table 7-1 on page 179 are missing.

Ah yep, there's a weird bug in how the Genesys symbol font and the small caps setting interact in InDesign, always looks fine in the editor but when I export it breaks. Easy fix, just keep forgetting to apply it 😛

As for the idea of making Despairs add +10, I'm wary of this mainly because I'd like to avoid those 30+ results being easy to get. I think instant death shouldn't be something you're risking too massively on the average roll, only on rolls where you're pushing excessively, or manifesting powers in warp-tainted territory. But I think it'd be worth looking at the maths in more depth. 

Assuming the chance of rolling a 10, a +20 modifier is basically when we hit instant death territory. So that's the result we want to make very difficult to attain without doing something silly. With the current rules, the following results would wreck you (I'm including the result needed to trigger Perils in these);

  • Five despair. You'd have to be ludicrously unlucky to get this result, would require pushing excessively with Warp Conduit to even be possible. 
  • Eleven threat. This is straight up impossible.
  • One despair, eight threat. Possible, but very **** luck.
  • Two despair, six threat. Again, possible, but pretty unlikely. 
  • Three despair, four threat. I'm noticing a theme here.

I think you've hit on a good point here, it's practically impossible to get the really brutal results on Perils of the Warp, to the point that I doubt most groups would ever see anything on the high end of the tables.

Hypothetically, here's the kind of results you'd need with your proposed changes (extra Despair causing +10 to the roll) to risk instant death. I'm assuming the GM is applying these results in the meanest way possible (activating the Perils roll with 3 threat, and using the despair on those nasty +10s).

  • Three despair. Rare, but not outside the realm of possibility if you're throwing around 3+ challenge dice.
  • Two despair, three threat. Still rare, but achievable on those red-dice heavy rolls. 
  • One despair, seven threat. Pretty **** unlikely, but a slight possibility on non-pushed rolls which are on the difficult side of things. 
  • Eleven threat. This is pretty much impossible outside of some weird edge cases.

I think your changes might be a solid idea. Still makes instant death pretty **** hard to trigger, but always a distinct possibility on harder rolls, and if you push your powers a lot you're really playing with fire.

The only mechanical oddity it creates is that there's optimal and sub-optimal ways for the GM to spend the symbols on Perils results; spending threat on activating Perils, and despair on boosting it up by +10 gets nastier results than the opposite, generally. Not sure if this is a problem, just a weird wrinkle in the mechanics that probably won't come up much outside of theory crafting stuff like this.

Open to hearing other ideas if people have them, but for now the +10 change is looking pretty good. 

As for making all the dice Challenge dice, that's one other way to address the problem, but looking at this math it seems like a less effective way to do it, and I kinda like the mechanics and talent interactions I have now of being able to push the amount of challenge dice up or down depending on how much you want to gamble in exchange for increased effect on your powers.

EDIT: It's wild how sensitive FFG's profanity filter is 🤣

 

Edited by Tom Cruise

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One thought I've had for a while r.e. the Corruption rules is reworking them slightly so that you always roll Corruption at the end of an encounter, never during.

I think the rules get a bit blurry and hard to implement well at the moment when you're dealing with multiple corrupting influences, so I'm thinking a more elegant way to do it is just have each character roll Corruption at the end of the encounter, with the difficulty based on whatever the most intense form of corruption they were exposed to during that encounter was. Any thoughts on that?

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8 hours ago, Tom Cruise said:

The only mechanical oddity it creates is that there's optimal and sub-optimal ways for the GM to spend the symbols on Perils results; spending threat on activating Perils, and despair on boosting it up by +10 gets nastier results than the opposite, generally. Not sure if this is a problem, just a weird wrinkle in the mechanics that probably won't come up much outside of theory crafting stuff like this.
 

 

Maybe you could change the rules slightly so it reads:  Whenever a roll to manifest a psychic power generates 3x Threat or Despair, Perils of the Warp may be triggered. However, if a Despair is rolled, it must be used to trigger Perils of the Warp.

Or you could change the amount of Threat needed to trigger Perils of the Warp from 3 to 4? That way, there's no difference between how a GM might want to use the results. Use 1 Despair to trigger Perils and add 10 to the roll for 4 Threat, or use 4 Threat to trigger Perils and use a Despair to add 10. Of course, Perils will come less into play if it's 4 threat.

 

As for not aiming for instant-kills, I'm right there with you. On the other hand, a Despair should mean something, especially if there's more than one. Insta-death (or worse) seems fitting for a Psyker who rolls several Despair.

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Chapter VIII - Corruption, is now done! Give it a look, let me know what I messed up, etc. The only real mechanical shift here is what I mentioned earlier; shifting Corruption checks to be something done at the end of an encounter, not during. Should hopefully make those spooky Ordo Malleus adventures less clunky. Also general extra context and guidance padded in throughout like with all the other chapters.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FnIIXaIXTqfR_caL8sorimXXpiuRyKtr/view?usp=sharing

Fear and Trauma is almost done, just bashing my head against annoying formatting problems.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Tom Cruise said:

Chapter VIII - Corruption, is now done! Give it a look, let me know what I messed up, etc. The only real mechanical shift here is what I mentioned earlier; shifting Corruption checks to be something done at the end of an encounter, not during. Should hopefully make those spooky Ordo Malleus adventures less clunky. Also general extra context and guidance padded in throughout like with all the other chapters.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FnIIXaIXTqfR_caL8sorimXXpiuRyKtr/view?usp=sharing

Fear and Trauma is almost done, just bashing my head against annoying formatting problems.

Nice work. I'm currently running Warhammer Fantasy with Genesys and will steal from you ;)
How about to allow Discipline for corruption of the mind and Resilence for corruption of the flesh?

Edited by Elden

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These rules were originally based on the Corruption mechanics in WHFRP 3e, so that's a pretty appropriate use really! 

As for the Resilience suggestion, it's a cool idea but I don't think it meshes too well with the fiction of how Chaos corruption works in 40k (would potentially fit better in WH Fantasy based on my limited knowledge of how mutation works there), it's generally portrayed as something that a strong will and discipline gets you through, rather than any trait of your physical body. 

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Super excited, can’t wait! I’ve been trying the new release of wrath and glory and honestly, while I really like that games initiative system, I’m not a big fan of the game in general. It tries to do narrative combat in a similar way to Genesys but nowhere near as well as this. I’ll be sticking with your supplement :)

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Alright, so I think the book is pretty well finished now. Tomorrow I'm going to fiddle with InDesign's export settings to try to strike a good balance between file size and aesthetics (when working with a fairly plain, black and white document, this isn't so crucial), and then cobble together something resembling a change log.

I'd love to give Wrath and Glory and EPG a pass to see what ideas I can pilfer from them, but in the interests of getting something out there, I'm going to leave that for a future update. I'd also like to cobble together some custom critical hit tables for different types of weapons to be more in line with classic DH crits (minus the hit location stuff), but that will have to wait, and I might just release it as a little side PDF rather than integrating it into the core book. Dunno yet.

Anyway, watch this space, book inbound.

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