Secret Cache

[Frey42166 0]

Reaction: After a conflict is declared against this province – search the top 5 cards of your conflict deck for a card and add it to your hand. Shuffle. 

Since the text here differs from other Province cards ("After this province is revealed..." "During a conflict at this province..." etc), does it require surviving the conflict that reveals it before its ability can be used during subsequent conflicts? Or (as my son so desperately hopes) can its ability be used as a reaction in the same conflict in which it is revealed. It appears that the timing window for reactions to conflict declaration will have closed before it can initiate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[GM81 Protocol Droid 142]

You are thinking the reaction is to conflict ends, which is a distinct  framework step from declare conflict. Reactions to something happen when those things happen, before other things happen.

3.2 Declare conflict.
3.2.1 Declare defenders.
◊ 3.2.2 CONFLICT ACTION WINDOW
(Defender has first opportunity)
3.2.3 Compare skill values.
3.2.4 Apply unopposed.
3.2.5 Break province.
3.2.6 Resolve ring effects.
3.2.7 Claim ring.
3.2.8 Return home. Go to (3.3).

3.3 Conflict Ends/ Conflict was passed. Return to 
the action window following step (3.1).

"If the province being attacked is facedown, turn it faceup as 
soon as a conflict is successfully declared against it. This occurs 
before any reactions to the process of conflict declaration may 
be triggered."

This is under the "Declare Conflict" framework step. A reaction to a conflict being declared is just after Framework step 3.2 but before step 3.2.1 "Declare Defenders." A player can use Secret Cache every time a conflict is declared there, regardless if it was just revealed or not.

[shosuko 2,174]

On 12/26/2017 at 7:37 PM, Frey42166 said:

Reaction: After a conflict is declared against this province – search the top 5 cards of your conflict deck for a card and add it to your hand. Shuffle. 

Since the text here differs from other Province cards ("After this province is revealed..." "During a conflict at this province..." etc), does it require surviving the conflict that reveals it before its ability can be used during subsequent conflicts? Or (as my son so desperately hopes) can its ability be used as a reaction in the same conflict in which it is revealed. It appears that the timing window for reactions to conflict declaration will have closed before it can initiate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

After this province is revealed - this means when you turn the province face up which happens as soon as a conflict is declared at that province.  This limits the ability so each time a conflict is declared here after it is face up the ability does not trigger.

During a conflict at this province - this is an action.  It takes one of your actions to use it, and it does not have to be used immediately.

After a conflict is declared - this is similar to "after it is revealed" except that it works every time a conflict is declared there even if it is face up (still once per turn limit on abilities tho). 

[InquisitorM 632]

5 hours ago, GM81 Protocol Droid said:

You are thinking the reaction is to conflict ends, which is a distinct  framework step from declare conflict.

He isn't. He's questioning whether the card must already be flipped up when a conflict is declared against it to trigger.

The province is turned face up before the reaction would be played because framework effects happen before triggered effects. Declare, flip (a framework effect), react to the declaration (a player-triggered ability).

[GM81 Protocol Droid 142]

Good point. I answered that part too, but I was getting confused by him asking about surviving the conflict.

[Frey42166 0]

Thank you, InquisitorM for understanding the context, and thank you GM81 Protocol Droid for trying.

 

The heart of my question lies in the Triggering Condition. InquisitorM's response seems to say that even though the actual declaration has occurred, the Declare Conflict step (3.2 as stated above) carries through to cover all Reactions that may occur before Declaring Defenders (3.2.1 as stated above) and that the Province's face-down status at the time of declaration won't impact the timing. So in this case (if I'm understanding InquisitorM's response), once a conflict is declared, the Secret Cache Province flips, then the Reaction immediately gets triggered by the initial declaration, correct? 

 

 

[shosuko 2,174]

2 hours ago, Frey42166 said:

Thank you, InquisitorM for understanding the context, and thank you GM81 Protocol Droid for trying.

 

The heart of my question lies in the Triggering Condition. InquisitorM's response seems to say that even though the actual declaration has occurred, the Declare Conflict step (3.2 as stated above) carries through to cover all Reactions that may occur before Declaring Defenders (3.2.1 as stated above) and that the Province's face-down status at the time of declaration won't impact the timing. So in this case (if I'm understanding InquisitorM's response), once a conflict is declared, the Secret Cache Province flips, then the Reaction immediately gets triggered by the initial declaration, correct? 

 

 

Yes exactly.  If you look at page 21-22 of the Rules Reference you will see that the 3.2 Declare Conflict encompasses these steps

Declare MIL / POL / PASS

Declare element ring and province

Declaring ready characters as attackers

If the province being attacked is face down, reveal it now

These are all considered to be performed simultaneously meaning you cannot react between them.  Once these four things are completed then any "when a conflict is declared here" or "when this province is revealed" if the province was revealed during these steps actions are completed.  Once we close that opportunity to play any triggered actions we move to 3.3 which is Declare Defenders.

Edited December 29, 2017 by shosuko