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sevick

Pathfinder to Genesys Conversion Formulas and Setting

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So I have been trying to deciding how to handle weapons with +1, +2, etc enhancements.

Magic Weapons

When attacking with a +1 Magic Weapon the wielder rolls a force die or, "magic die" in this case, may spend white pips to do certain things. If the wielder has the option he can use the black pips but he must take 2 strain per pip used. 

  • +1 = 1 Magic die [Can spend white pips as Advantage]
  • +2 = 1 Magic die [May now spend black pips as advantage ]
  • +3 = 2 Magic die [May now spend white pips as Success]
  • +4 = 2 Magic die [May now spend black pips as  Success]
  • +5 = 3 Magic die [May now use 5 white pips as a triumph]

I have gone through several variations of this. This is what I ended up with. Let me know what you think. :)

Edited by sevick

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Wow what have I gotten myself into. This is a much bigger undertaking than I had originally thought. I am reworking the magic system and holy crap it's hard keeping it simple yet like pathfinder.

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Ye recreating pathfinder in Genesys seems like alot of work :)  But if your hellbent on doing it and having fun -  have at it :)

Some feedback on the magic weapon stuff. +1 to +5 is part of the mechanics of pathfinder. As you level up the system assumes you have x amount of wealth this includes +x weapons. For Genesys there are no CR or levels and no need to assume the pc have these items. So instead of recreating 1-5 make some cool items.

In Terrinoth your +1 sword are handle through runic attachment. Like attach a flame rune your sword gains the burn 1 quality. There are even runes that increases your base damage or qualities that add 1 automatic advantage.

I like the increase in base damage more then extra success. Since combat is a set difficulty based on range having something that adds extra succes makes the check rather trivial. You also have the vicious and pierce qualities to play with. Like in pathfinder a +1 burning sword actually counts as a +2 sword you could do kinda the same as a template. So a +3 sword can have pierce 1, +1 base damage and burn 1 quality. Or a +2 sword with vicious 2. Maybe use that as a guiding template and they variation of items becomes much higher. Since in pathfinder a magicsword is also consider masterwork you could have all magic weapons have the superior quality so add 1 automatic advantage.

So maybe that +1 short sword is just a superior with pierce 1  

Anyways my 2 coppers :) good luck with it. 

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@Archellus

Initially I thought about adding the superior quality to the magic weapons but thought it might be a bit OP with the new mechanic and that.

What about this? The +1, +2, or whatever adds to the Hard points of the weapon. For example a Longsword with a HP of  1; if It were to be a +2 Longsword it would have a total of 3 HP. I then make attachments that are magical in nature that can benefit from having high hard points.

I will expand on both and do some play testing to see which feels right.

@lyinggod

Thanks I will try that.

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 This is a possible solution as well.

----

[Hard Point Method]

Magic Weapons with enhancement bonuses gain hard points equal to the weapons enhancement rating. For example if you had a Longsword that by default has a +2 enhancement it would have a total of 3 HP.

Attachments usually require only 1 HP. Attachments that are magical in nature require 2 or more.

Magic Attachments

Returning

Aura: Moderate transmutation

Required Magic HP: 2

A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a incidental. If the character can’t catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.

Construction

Crafting Difficulty: Hard (fff)

Requirements: Telekinesis; Craft Magic Arms and Armor Talent, must be placed on a weapon that can be thrown.

-----

This makes it a pretty good solution for all those abilities that are added to weapons and armor.

Edited by sevick
Edited the mundane and magical attachments

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So I have been flip flopping on the magic system so much, which is mostly the reason I haven't released anything for awhile. I initially started out as wanting to have individual spells. But as am converting more and more spells I am seeing the wisdom to having a more free form casting mechanic. I think the more spells I convert the hard it is going to be to balance all of it. So I came up with pros and cons to having a Free form casting system.

Genesys Magic system

Pros:

  • Simplified casting for any spell which is a lot less complicated and makes for quicker combat. 

  • A lot Less work. (There are Billion spells in the pathfinder game)

  • Players won't have a Billion spells to sift through.

Cons:

  • Some pathfinder classes could be cut off from spells their class would normally be able to cast.

  • No sense of discovery when finding a spell tome with spells in it. "Oh whats this a spell book...big deal I can cast all that crap anyway."

  • If characters can cast any spell what roles do scrolls play

Then I thought how can I remove these cons while having a free form magic system and came up with this:

Con 1: Pathfinder spells being cut off from certain classes that would normally have access to them.

Possible Solutions

  • Add a talent that lets the caster of a spell, cast outside his boundaries with a story point as long as it was a spell that could normally be cast by that class in the pathfinder system.

Con 2: Rekindle sense of accomplishments when gain spell tombs and scrolls.

Possible Solutions

  • Spell tombs could have specific spells in them that could have certain bonuses to cast them such as: Only costing 1 strain to cast, Roll a magic die with them that increase their chances (see Magic Die below).

Magic Die

For arcane users, when a character has a spell book and uses a spell they have in the tomb they can roll 1 magic die for every rank in Ancient Tombs. When rolled they may use white pips to add success or advantage. Black pips nothing happens. Thinking about the possibility of adding a tier 5 talent that lets them use black pips as long as they spend additional strain equal to the amount of black pips used. Narratively it could show how wizards who have more understanding of rune markings in spell books and such makes it easier to cast spells. Using black pips could show his ability to improvise and make alterations to spells in the book without to much risk.

For divine spell casters that would be simpler is have a talent called Divine Intervention. Which lets you flip a number of destiny dies equal to your ranks in Divine Intervention to add 1 Magic Die to your roll per destiny flipped. White pips are used for those of an good-aligned Deity and black for evil-aligned. This talent could only be used if they are following the tenets of their Deity.

Primal spell casters would be similar to divine with maybe a few minor tweaks.

Con3: If characters can cast any spell what roles do scrolls play

Scrolls can be used to either upgrade the check once and have it consumed or be copied to a spell book which is riskier but pays off with a reward of being able to use a magic die with it permanently.

Any thoughts and ideas are welcome.

Edited by sevick

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Hi again. Your magic +1,+2 etc to weapons seems ok. Just try and balance your attachments. Something like a greatsword has only 2 HP so adding 5 hardpoints would be alot. But it does seem more in line with what is in the terrinoth book think it will provide a good solution. 

For the spells i can only speak from personal experience is that the free form casting from genesys is alot more easy to handle. I have GM 'ed a group with 3 spellcasters for many sessions and so far it has not been a problem. I also still play a pathfinder campaign 14th level eldric knight the amount of spells i need to keep track of in a single combat is staggering. So would def recommend you keep the Genesys system.  

For your con nr. 1 there are allready talents for that in Terrinoth. 

"TEMPLAR
Tier: 1
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Divine is now a career skill for your character. They can only
cast one spell using this skill per encounter. "

From Realms of Terrinoth page 87. 

You could make this for eldric knights, arcane archers or anything else really that uses this. Just substitute the magic skill for something else. 

For magic tomes. There is actually a magic tome implement. 

Skipping the fluff text the mechanic benefits are: 

"When your character makes or obtains a tome, your GM
determines up to two effects that the tome lets your character
add to any appropriate spell without increasing the spell’s difficulty.
The effects your GM chooses should normally (without
the tome) only increase the difficulty of a spell by a total of three."

From Realms of Terrinoth page 98

But that an actual implement. Your solution for scrolls and minor tombs sounds rather fun except for the magic die thing. Would be tied to a specific spell kinda like signature spell talent but more limited in its use. Be careful not to let it substitute a rank 2 talent that is only supposed to be taken once. IE do not let the spell be cast at a lower difficulty give it lower strain, maybe a boost die etc. One disadvantage is the caster needs to draw the book so use a maneuver to get it out. And you should penalize if its used in conjunction with something else ie. Add setback if not one hand is free.  Other suggestion is to have a spell cast via scroll to increase duration beyond concentration for a few rounds again this is super powerful so use carefully. 

The magic die suggestions seems a bit clunky. For one its more dice second for divine casters having an ability that flips multiple story points for one roll outside of heroic abilities  is not good for game balance and will make them unpopular with the rest of the group. Core Genesys has fewer storypoints per session then SW. 

Other use for tomes would be to let the player add a specific effect to a spell cast as a form of ritual. Look at the describtion of the core spells GCRB p 211-214. in the wording is talked a lot about casting spells in narrative encounter or outside combat if you like. Here tomes could come into play and let players get a bonus or attempt spells otherwise not possible in a structured encounter because they have added time and the knowledge via the book. 

Just a suggestion since it wont mess with your combat balance but can provide a good story element and lets you hand wave a lot of effects that are not super obvious in Genesys. So if they ask how to make mordenkainen's magnificent mansion you can say "there is a tome for that" :)  

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10 minutes ago, Archellus said:

For your con nr. 1 there are allready talents for that in Terrinoth. 

"TEMPLAR
Tier: 1
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Divine is now a career skill for your character. They can only
cast one spell using this skill per encounter. "

From Realms of Terrinoth page 87.   

That is if you don't have a class skill. What I am talking about is. You have in the Pathfinder Core rules Summon Monster I, which can clearly be cast by a cleric with a divine skill. Now in Genesys Conjure is only allowed to be cast by the Arcana and Primal skill.

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ahh sorry misunderstood you there :)

Well yes you could make it available with a story point or say go all divine in your game has access to that spell. But i would recommend that its just not possible it keeps the different magic skills more unique. Maybe make a talent or something like Domain powers.  

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5 hours ago, sevick said:

Cons:

  • Some pathfinder classes could be cut off from spells their class would normally be able to cast.

  • No sense of discovery when finding a spell tome with spells in it. "Oh whats this a spell book...big deal I can cast all that crap anyway."

  • If characters can cast any spell what roles do scrolls play

Something I'm working on that could be useful to you?:

In a house magic system I've been working on, I've made scrolls and spell books useful, but in a totally different way. I've replaced the three casting skills with Word-casting (the default way to cast, saying the runes out loud), Thought-casting (higher tier you need to unlock with some benefits), and Scribe-casting (marking the runes on a material).

While Scribe-casting is the slowest method, you can do lots with it. You can draw the runes for a spell on a door so that it is cast when opened. You can draw the runes on a piece of paper which allows a one-shot casting of the spell, possibly by others (I use the creator's skill plus the caster's attribute, but my system limits this to spell casters only so it's main use would be casting someone else's more powerful spell). You can paint runes on a person to "buff" them. Scribe-casting is also the method of creating magical items. With a special source of magic, the runes can be made permanent by a Scribe-caster (magical arms, armaments, etc will have the runes actually etched upon them). Finally, spellbooks have a utility use when Word or Thought casting. You can write down your spells in a book or on a scroll using Scribe-casting as a reference for casting with Word or Thought. The reading itself costs an extra Maneuver* so it slows things down, but it gives Bonus when casting the spell. So, it can be helpful to "refer to your notes" when casting a difficult spell.

*I use a different strain system then core for casting.

Edited by Sturn

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As far as scrolls go I think I will keep the upgrade for a one time use and if you want to add it to your spell book, you could spend advantage on successful check to scribe it to your spell book. Just like in all the crafting rules, you could spend those advantages to be able to get things like an auto advantage, or maybe 2 triumphs for a decrease in difficulty. And if you got a bad roll maybe you are able to try again. Imagine a wizard constantly adding runes and making adjustment to get that favorite spell a bit more of an edge.

*Edit

An I think I may have just found the solution to spell books as well. Spell books would still have actual spells in them but modified by the owner, so the PC that found it couldn't necessarily do the same thing. Of course there would be checks to decipher their work and maybe the possibility for copying it to spell book.

Edited by sevick
Additional insight

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Hi @sevick, I've done some work along these lines for my own setting, you are welcome to take a look and see if any of it will help you. The "Artifice and Enchanting" and "Adventuring Gear" documents include alternate rules for magical crafting, enchantments, scrolls, and craftsmanship:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Cb0tTaswa6njDfFiBewNGEbx50D3IqMq?usp=sharing

 

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15 minutes ago, Direach said:

Hi @sevick, I've done some work along these lines for my own setting, you are welcome to take a look and see if any of it will help you. The "Artifice and Enchanting" and "Adventuring Gear" documents include alternate rules for magical crafting, enchantments, scrolls, and craftsmanship:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Cb0tTaswa6njDfFiBewNGEbx50D3IqMq?usp=sharing

 

Interesting. I have figured out how I want to do enchanted weapons already and looks similar. thx though.

Edited by sevick

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Uh, did I ever share this here?  I may have gone a bit overboard with this one, but I kind of lost my mind in converting things.  I also decided to convert the NPC section of the Starfinder Alien Archives into this too.  Once again, I may have lost my mind, a little bit.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LssicV7D5VPVagX7GQirnPpgCNNbeta1RO5mLltH4_Q/edit?usp=sharing

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1 hour ago, Mathadar said:

Uh, did I ever share this here?  I may have gone a bit overboard with this one, but I kind of lost my mind in converting things.  I also decided to convert the NPC section of the Starfinder Alien Archives into this too.  Once again, I may have lost my mind, a little bit.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LssicV7D5VPVagX7GQirnPpgCNNbeta1RO5mLltH4_Q/edit?usp=sharing

Wow this is impressive. My expertise with spreadsheets is limited, but I can see this must have been quite an undertaking.

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3 minutes ago, sevick said:

Wow this is impressive. My expertise with spreadsheets is limited, but I can see this must have been quite an undertaking.

Well, I was starting to convert Cthulhu Mythos, that was in the pathfinder system, which is when I realized, I needed to figure what which ones had what ranks of stats and skill, and boom, I made the sheet when converting Father Dagon.

I figure, if I can convert Old ones, I can convert anything, and it indeed worked very nicely.  Plus I made this little old sheet for a fallout equestria campaign, but it has the rules to create firearms and gives a guess at the price.

Weapon Builder.xlsx

Edited by Mathadar

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It's been awhile but I have been working on it this whole time trying to eradicate old rules left over from all the revisions. But somthing I have been working on is Class Abilitys. Each class when chosen will get a class ability. Just one. This is to put some reigns on the system to be more thematic with pathfinder lore. As an example, I need to define the differences between a sorcerer and a wizard. If a sorcerer can just pick up a talent that lets him use spell books that doesn't make sense in pathfinder lore.  

I came up with this for the sorcerers starting ability and the Wizard:

Class Ability (Sorcerer): Dragon Blood

My spend t to reduce the strain required to cast spells to 1 for the rest of the encounter. Like wise the GM may spend d to increase the strain required to cast spells to 3 for the rest of the encounter.

Class Ability (Wizard): Spell Books

Spell books act like a depository for your spell research. While you can cast any spell as long as you have the right skill, the value of spell books come from scibing them to your spell book. During this process you will have the opportunity to make a more potent spells than you would normally be able to cast if you were to just do it on the fly.

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So work on this project was stopped for a bit as I looked at the possibility of converting from pathfinder 2. While it hasn't been released yet it might prove easier to convert. That said I will finish up the core rule book of the 1st edition pathfinder before considering converting from 2nd edition.

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17 hours ago, sevick said:

So work on this project was stopped for a bit as I looked at the possibility of converting from pathfinder 2. While it hasn't been released yet it might prove easier to convert. That said I will finish up the core rule book of the 1st edition pathfinder before considering converting from 2nd edition.

That's understandable. I haven't read or played 2nd edition, but I have listened to a few live play podcasts that showcased it, and it does sound a lot closer to Genesys in its design ethos. Thanks for all of the hard work you've put into this project and for sharing the fruits of your labor with us! I've had a lot of fun using your work as a guide for my own conversion of the Wrath of the Righteous campaign (Still in progress).

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***Update 0.6***

So I wanted to have more done before updating but it's been a long time and I decided that I need to release something. You will probably find in consistencies with rules since I made changes and haven't found all the places where the old rule remains. It's a cluttered mess to be sure but over time It should get more consistent. I updated the Fantasy Grounds Module, so it should be more complete.

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Sorry forgot to add the stuff necessary to run all the Fantasy Grounds content. If you are familiar with Fantasy Grounds you will know what to do with these files.

If you are unfamiliar you will need to do the Following:

1. Run Fantasy Grounds and click the folder icon in the top right coroner of the banner.

2. Copy all the folders inside of the Fantasy Grounds folder that I uploaded.

3. Paste them into the folder you opened in step 1.

4. Run fantasy grounds, select a campaign and check the extensions you want. Genesys Core and the Pathfinder setting extension are required though.

Thanks goes to Finding the Narrative Podcast for the modified Genesys Core. I couldn't have do it without them.

Edited by sevick

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I am still not satisfied with the Enchantment bonuses rules since it requires adding a magic effect or attachment to a weapon or armor regardless of wheather or not the weapon being converted has a magic effect.

So back to the drawing board for weapon enchantments.

I had posted a solution in this post earlier but decided against it. Just incase you were wondering what happened to it.

Edited by sevick
Undecided

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