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sevick

Pathfinder to Genesys Conversion Formulas and Setting

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I have been making conversion formulas for pathfinder and was wondering what you think.

I have updated the PDF and added a WIP spreadsheet for it.

So I have shared a link to my Pathfidner Setting, Bestiary, and conversion formulas. I will continue to upload the changes I've made regularly. Some play testing feed back is appreciated.

Updated: 10-4-18

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v12vrxuspq7owmx/AADZLJjwMtygnJ4QlAJwEuwua?dl=0

Change Log (v0.4)

  • Fleshed out the scroll to spell book crafting rules a little more. (Needs testing)
  • Add new talent "Accomplished Scribe."
  • Add new skill "Magic Craft"

Change Log (v0.3)

  • Added descriptions for Adventuring Gear Items and Special Items and Substances.
  • Add all 0 level wizard spells, a few 1st level spells and a few Cleric spells.
  • Added some new talents.
  • Some minor changes
  • Changed the darkvision from removing 2 setbacks to 3. Also changed low light vision from 1 to 2 as well. This is more in line with Genesys and setbacks involving Darkness.
Edited by sevick

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Characteristics:

i personally use the following table to convert attributes:

PFAttr. Genesys XP Cost
0 - 5 1 10
6 - 10 2 30
11 - 17 3 60
18 - 26 4 100
27 - 36 5 150
37 - 48 6 210
49 - 62 7 280
63 - 78 8 360
79 - 96 9 450
97 + 10 550

The actual Formula is XP = 10 * (PFAttribute + PFMod) * (4/7).

Wound/Strain Threshold:

i would calculate them as normal for Genesys and adjust by size then by minion/rival/nemesis category.

the size table i use is (you may see similarities from d20):

Size                                       SIZ         Class      Wgt(lb)       H/L(ft)        Sil.       Mod1    Mod2    Mod3    Mod4    WT        Min    Max    Reach
Fine/Miniscule 0/0 I 0-1 .1–.3 * -4 -2 x.05 x.25 2+T 0 7 .2ft
Diminutive 1/0 II 1-4 .5–1 0 -3 -1 x.1 x.5 5+T 1 6 .5ft
Tiny 2/0 III 4-16 1–2 0 -2 -1 x.33 x.66 6+T 1 6 1ft
Small 3/0 IV 16-64 2–4 1 -1 ±0 x.66 x.75 8+T 1 5 3ft
Medium 4/1 V 64-250 4–8 1 ±0 ±0 x1 x1 10+T 1 5 5ft
Big 5/2 VI 250-1k 8–16 2 +1 ±0 x2 x1.5 15+T 1 4 5ft
Large 6/3 VII 1k-4k 16–32 2 +2 +1 x3 x2 20+T 2 4 10ft
Enormous/Huge 7/4 VIII 4k-16k 32–50 3 +3 +1 x6 x3 30+T 3 3 15ft
Gigantic/Gargantuan 8/5 IX 16k-64k 50-100 4 +4 +2 x8 x4 40+T 4 3 20ft
Colossal/Enormous 9/6 X 64k-250k 100-250 5 +5 +2 x12 x5 50+T 5 2 25ft
Titanic 10/7 XI 250k+ 250+ 6 +6 +3 x16 x6 60+T 6 2 30ft
  • ignore SIZ and Class, Wgt is Weight in lbs, H/L is Height/Length in ft, Sil. is Siluette, WT is Wound Threshold, Reach is average Melee Reachability (no range bands)
  • so to calculate final Brawn from medium/human-relative Brawn, i would add (Mod1) with a minimum of (Min).
  • as for actual Agility (Dexterity), i would subtract (Mod2) with a maximum of (Max); and yes i mean a Fine-sized Creature has +2 AGL.
  • Wound Threshold (WT) would be based on unmodified Brawn (ie. Toughness) and (Mod4)
  • if you want a hard movement stat (MOV), you can add Brawn+Agility (Physique+Dexterity) times (Mod3) or (Mod4) to get ft/second

Skills:

Converting Skills by pure bonus is the greatest error one can make, because it is often missunderstood as a straight conversion and for Genesys the Attribute Bonus Value has to be removed first

PF Genesys XP Cost
+1 / +2* 1 5
+3 / +5* 2 15
+6 / +10* 3 30
+10 / +17*  4 50
+15 / +25* 5 75
+21 / +35* 6 105
+28 / +47* 7 140
+36 / +60* 8 180
+45 / +75* 9 225
+55 / +92* 10 275

The actual Formula is XP = 5 * (PF Skill Mod).

*) For a better Conversion use XP = 3 * (PF Skill Mod); and apply some fitting Talents

 

Edited by Terefang

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3 hours ago, Terefang said:

The actual Formula is XP = 10 * (PFAttribute + PFMod) * (4/7).

Standard elite starting array with racial bonus for Pathfinder is 17/14/13/12/10/8. Conveniently, the total of these scores with their modifiers is exactly 80.

80 * 40/7 ~ 450 XP

This implies that a starting Pathfinder character is roughly equivalent to a starting Genesys character with an extra 170 starting XP. (I.e., 2/2/2/2/2/2 +270 XP instead of +100) Possible Genesys arrays basically range from 5/5/3/2/2/2 to 4/4/3/3/3/3.

 

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Please note that the above tables are for NPC/Monster conversion, and NOT for PCs.

1 hour ago, CMink said:

with an extra 170 starting XP. (I.e., 2/2/2/2/2/2 +270 XP instead of +100)

a starting fantasy race is roughly 300 XP -- around 180-190 for attributes; 10-30 racial talents and skills and 80-100 free to assign -- this should not be changed, unless you want a high powered game style.

  • 180 XP = 2/2/2/2/2/2
  • 190 XP = 3/2/2/2/2/1
  • 210 XP = 3/2/2/2/2/2

 

Quote

Standard elite starting array with racial bonus for Pathfinder is 17/14/13/12/10/8.

that would be 3/3/3/3/2/2 (4*60 + 2*30 = 300 XP).

a Genesys PC would have 2-3 Tier 1 Talents representing the 14/13/12 rated characteristics instead of having an actual rating of "3"
(and being much cheaper, ie. 3*5 = 15XP vs 3*30 = 90XP).

 

1 hour ago, CMink said:

Conveniently, the total of these scores with their modifiers is exactly 80.

80 * 40/7 ~ 450 XP

bad habit to sum everything up without looking at the conversion table -- the formula is only for orientation on how the table came into existence.

Edited by Terefang

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Well I tested this out and the goblin in pathfinder would start with 2 Brawn(-1 for being small), 3 Reflex (stays the same for small), 2 Cunning, 2 Intellect, Presence 2

WT: 2.25 = (3 Unmodified brawn*0.75)

So what about wound threshold would you round up or down. Also in Edge of the Empire small creatures (ie jawas) are considered Silhouette 0.

"Silhouettes range from 0 to 10. Silhouette 0 is something smaller than a human (such as a specific starship
component, a Jawa, or an astromech droid) and silhouette 1 is something the size of an adult human."

Pg. 224 of the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook.

Also what adjustments do you make for minion, rival, and nemesis.

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Quote

pg 45 Genesys CRB:

Your character’s starting wound threshold is determined
by adding the wound threshold for their archetype or
species to their Brawn rating (after spending starting XP).

ie. Small: 8 + T (from column "WT")

Quote

pg 23 CRB:

always round up.

ie. 8 + (3 * 0.75) = 11

Quote

pg. 202 CRB: 

Minions should generally have wound thresholds of 3 to 5, never higher than 7.

Rivals should have wound thresholds between 10 and 15 (unless the rival is a creature or monster, in which case you can go as high as 20 to 25).

Nemeses can have wound thresholds of 10 to 20 (with giant creatures and monsters being potentially higher).

  • Minion: WT * (between 0.1 and 0.33; i would use 0.25)
  • Rivals: WT * (between 0.5 and 0.9; i would use 0.75)
  • Memesis: WT * (between 1.0 and 2.0; i would use 1.5)

ie. for the Kobold Minion Final WT = 11 * 0.25 = 3

Edited by Terefang

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I like the changes actualy. The only thing I would change though is the silhouette for small from 1 to 0 so that a giant fighting a half-ling would be harder to hit. How did you handles Items? 

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Do you factor Constitution into the brawl characteristic at all. Because goblins get Brawn 3 if you do this formula: 10 * (Str + Con/2) + PFMod *4/7

and you get Brawn 2 if you go 10 * (Str) + PFMod *4/7

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7 hours ago, sevick said:

Do you factor Constitution into the brawl characteristic at all. Because goblins get Brawn 3 if you do this formula: 10 * (Str + Con/2) + PFMod *4/7

yes, CON should factor into Brawn.

yet, it is debatable which factor should be used; i used XP = 10 * (((STR+CON)/2)+((STRmod+CONmod)/2)) * (4/7)

 

so your basic goblin scaled to various sizes would look like:

Name BRN AGL INT CUN WPR PRE SIZE TYPE MOV WT ST
Goblin 2 3 2 2 2 1 Small Normal 4 11 12
Goblin 2 3 2 2 2 1 Small Minion 4 3 12
Goblin 2 3 2 2 2 1 Small Rival 4 8 12
Goblin 2 3 2 2 2 1 Small Nemeses 4 17 12

 

 

Edited by Terefang

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9 hours ago, sevick said:

The only thing I would change though is the silhouette for small from 1 to 0 so that a giant fighting a half-ling would be harder to hit.

i would use silhouette as is, but apply situational boost/setback die, or upgrade difficulty once (ie. change one difficulty die for a challenge die)

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17 minutes ago, lyinggod said:

And people complained about the math in the HERO system/Champions. :P

:rolleyes: me too, ... , but once you suffered from calc/excel -- it actually gets worse.

Edited by Terefang

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11 hours ago, Terefang said:

yes, CON should factor into Brawn.

yet, it is debatable which factor should be used; i used XP = 10 * (((STR+CON)/2)+((STRmod+CONmod)/2)) * (4/7)

 

I assume the same holds true for figuring Cunning, using the stats Wis and Int? You wouldn't happen to have PDF you could upload or something with these conversion formulas would you? You seem to have a better understanding on converting from Pathfinder. I am making a spreadsheet to calculate this out. Also I don't know what you mean by STRmod and CONmod are you talking about the stats tied to the Pathfinder Attributes on page 17 of the Pathfinder Core? Or is it Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, or Mod4?

Edited by sevick

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3 minutes ago, Terefang said:

i would use melee/ranged weapons as given in Genesys (my home group still uses the warhammer list)

if you want more, take a look at the blackwater conversion: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Cb0tTaswa6njDfFiBewNGEbx50D3IqMq

Hmm the Genesys weapons while good there is like a handful. I guess those black water weapons is good start. I would still like to convert the weapons and armor found in the pathfinder core book using some formulas. I guess my own method of doing so will work for now. Do you have any suggestions if I was going to do that.

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I don't know if you are familiar with the beast riding rules found in Stay on target or not. I converted a horse (Rival) using your spreadsheet and used the rules from stay on target to generate the handling of the horse and it turned out to have -2 handling, and Max speed of 1. So some modifications might need to be made when converting it to beast riding rules.

Max speed is calculated: Agility/2 rounded up

Handling is: Agility - Silhouette - Willpower

Edit: Also the horse ended up having 6 soak,that seems a little op

Edit: Also I didn't think big was a category in pathfinder. I guess it maybe applicable to other d20 games.

Edited by sevick

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I tweaked your way of calculating WT by lowering the amount changed with each size increment. EotE the stats for creatures didn't seem to get that high and made very slight changes to WT, soak, and characteristics since their was no easy way for a character to increase those stats. 

 Also characteristics should not be affected by size.  Those stats are already reflected by the base attributes in pathfinder. Adjusting these stats only compound what is already been added in and inflating the soak to unmanageable levels.

Wound Threshold

Wound Threshold is figured by the size of the creature 1st

Size

Wound Threshold Mod 1

Fine

6 + Brawn Rating x0.5

Diminutive

7 + Brawn Rating x0.33

Tiny

8 + Brawn Rating x0.66

Small

9 + Brawn Rating x0.75

Medium

10 + Brawn Rating x1

Large

11 + Brawn Rating x1.5

Huge

12 + Brawn Rating x2

Gargantuan

13 + Brawn Rating x3

Colossal

14 + Brawn Rating x4


Then it is adjusted according to Enemy Type:

Enemy Type

Wound Threshold

Minion

WT Mod 1 x0.25

Rival

WT Mod 1 x0.75

Nemesis

WT Mod 1 x1.5

*Round up after final calculations

I may have to do some more tweaking after converting some late game enemies to see how powerful or under powered they are.

Edited by sevick

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6 hours ago, sevick said:

 Also characteristics should not be affected by size.  Those stats are already reflected by the base attributes in pathfinder.

i usually find the medium size attributes (STR, DEX, CON) for the creature (eg. for dragons)
and enter that in the spreadsheet and afterward use the size dropdown

also note that the spreadsheet is the one i used for DnD to Warhammer conversion,
so you may want to add a -1 here and there because Genesys uses a more arkward
presentation of numbers

please note that the actual stats have to be modified anyway by hand,
since the Genesys way of representing high characteristics is by actual lower numbers
and added Talents/Features (like Adversary, etc)
or modifying derived stats (Soak, Defence, WT, ST, ...) directly

yet the way of building Monsters in Genesys leave much to be desired, unless you narrate that away :angry: 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, sevick said:

I tweaked your way of calculating WT by lowering the amount changed with each size increment.

EotE the stats for creatures didn't seem to get that high and made very slight changes to WT, ...

 

first of all the "Big" and "Titanic" size categories were there for a scaleability reason, your milage may vary.

second, you are free to modify to your liking and play-style.

for myself, i  align Genesys Fantasy more towards Warhammer (the ancestor of EotE and Genesys) and its death spiral.

 

 

 

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On 12/27/2017 at 8:21 AM, Terefang said:

 

Size                                       SIZ         Class      Wgt(lb)       H/L(ft)        Sil.       Mod1    Mod2    Mod3    Mod4    WT        Min    Max    Reach
Fine/Miniscule 0/0 I 0-1 .1–.3 * -4 -2 x.05 x.25 2+T 0 7 .2ft
Diminutive 1/0 II 1-4 .5–1 0 -3 -1 x.1 x.5 5+T 1 6 .5ft
Tiny 2/0 III 4-16 1–2 0 -2 -1 x.33 x.66 6+T 1 6 1ft
Small 3/0 IV 16-64 2–4 1 -1 ±0 x.66 x.75 8+T 1 5 3ft
Medium 4/1 V 64-250 4–8 1 ±0 ±0 x1 x1 10+T 1 5 5ft
Big 5/2 VI 250-1k 8–16 2 +1 ±0 x2 x1.5 15+T 1 4 5ft
Large 6/3 VII 1k-4k 16–32 2 +2 +1 x3 x2 20+T 2 4 10ft
Enormous/Huge 7/4 VIII 4k-16k 32–50 3 +3 +1 x6 x3 30+T 3 3 15ft
Gigantic/Gargantuan 8/5 IX 16k-64k 50-100 4 +4 +2 x8 x4 40+T 4 3 20ft
Colossal/Enormous 9/6 X 64k-250k 100-250 5 +5 +2 x12 x5 50+T 5 2 25ft
Titanic 10/7 XI 250k+ 250+ 6 +6 +3 x16 x6 60+T 6 2 30ft
  •  

What does Mod1 Mod 2 Mod 3 and Mod3 mean?  Is it related to pathfinder attributes?

 

thanks

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On 8/11/2018 at 2:12 AM, Shubert1969 said:

What does Mod1 Mod 2 Mod 3 and Mod3 mean?  Is it related to pathfinder attributes?

these are modifiers to calculate final attribute values (explained below) 

On 12/27/2017 at 4:21 PM, Terefang said:
  • ignore SIZ and Class, Wgt is Weight in lbs, H/L is Height/Length in ft, Sil. is Siluette, WT is Wound Threshold, Reach is average Melee Reachability (no range bands)
  • so to calculate final Brawn from medium/human-relative Brawn, i would add (Mod1) with a minimum of (Min).
  • as for actual Agility (Dexterity), i would subtract (Mod2) with a maximum of (Max); and yes i mean a Fine-sized Creature has +2 AGL.
  • Wound Threshold (WT) would be based on unmodified Brawn (ie. Toughness) and (Mod4)
  • if you want a hard movement stat (MOV), you can add Brawn+Agility (Physique+Dexterity) times (Mod3) or (Mod4) to get ft/second

but you may want to adjust them based on setting and lethality as noted by @sevick above.

On 12/29/2017 at 1:01 PM, Terefang said:

also note that the spreadsheet is the one i used for DnD to Warhammer conversion,
so you may want to add a -1 here and there because Genesys uses a more arkward
presentation of numbers

please note that the actual stats have to be modified anyway by hand,
since the Genesys way of representing high characteristics is by actual lower numbers
and added Talents/Features (like Adversary, etc)
or modifying derived stats (Soak, Defence, WT, ST, ...) directly

 

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Posted (edited)

It's been a while since an update. Things in personal life have been busy and haven't had a chance to work on it much but will be getting back to soon. Just letting you all know I haven't abandoned the project yet.

After I have made and tested more converted Pathfinder content I plan on posting Fantasy Grounds Libraries for it. But I want to make sure they are balanced before committing to that.

Edited by sevick

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