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Hawkstrike

Episode IX -- where to from here? [Warning: TLJ Spoilers]

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If I was Disney, I would have JEJ recording dialogue from now until the day he dies.  I dunno, just have him read dialgoue from every script fir every film ever written, then just go through recipe books etc.  Cut and paste words until you get the Vader dialogue you want.  Own his voice in perpetuity.  Yes.

I think Chewie actually looks younger in the more recent films.  Maybe he has just discovered Pantene Po-V with conditioner or something.

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(Spoilers TLJ)

Some people says that the little kid at the end of the Last jedi that grabs the broom and the other kids of the film are gonna be the main characters in the new trilogy and it's going to be their story.

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32 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Before tlj or of very confidently said another remake this time of jedi, but rians kinda stopped that dead the Fo hasn't had time to build another super weapon, the rebel fleets gone.

JJ is not good at original content.

Yep, that's another of my complaints @Hobojebus.  I literally have no idea of where the story is going from here, and have been given no reason to care.  There was nothing built up in The Last Jedi to lead into the final film of the trilogy.  Rian threw out almost all the set ups made in The Force Awakens, and added none of his own.

I didn't particularly enjoy The Force Awakens, I felt it was too much of a copy of the original Star Wars, but at least there we were left with the possibilities of seeing Luke in action again as an experienced teacher and warrior, seeing him reunite with Chewie and Leia, finding out more about the origins of the First Order, Kylo and Snoke, Rey's backstory, how the First Order's actions have affected the galaxy...

Now though, what do we have to look forward to, really?

The world and character building in The Last Jedi in general is abysmal.  We learn more about the characters, their motivations and the world they live during the pre-titles sequence in Rogue One than we do in the entirety of The Last Jedi.

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On 12/30/2017 at 5:59 AM, Hobojebus said:

JJ is not good at original content.

JJ is a freakin' genius compared to Rian Johnson. I hate just about all of the "contributions" that Rian Johnson made to the Star Wars characters and lore. I'm hoping JJ ignores, hand-waves, or outright retcons as much of what Rian did as possible.

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On 12/23/2017 at 0:00 PM, Hawkstrike said:

(5) We have one untrained Force User against a trained-but-unstable Kylo (and presumably the Knights of Ren).

No need to worry about this. In Rian Johnson's Star Wars nobody needs training to use the force. Rey has no Jedi training but in the span of a week has already progressed to levitating a mountain side full of rocks and boulders. Even a random stable boy can figure out how to use the force. By the time the third movie begins, Rey will be a Jedi master and new Jedi will be popping up like weeds all over the Galaxy.

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I don't get this prequel/rpg obsession with "Jedi need to have x hours of training to unlock new abilities". Maybe just maybe the prequel Jedi who required life long training from the earliest age possible were just wrong. They created indoctrinated puppets that went into a war where they shouldn't have chosen a side and missed being deceived by a Sith lord for at least a decade. They went too far from the actual force.

A good Jedi needs a connection with the force and the state of mind to listen to it. This is what Yoda taught Luke and both with him and Rey you can see how it works. This state of mind can be reached in singular moments (Luke in the Wampa cave, Rey when fighting Kylo), or through a realisation on how the galaxy is connected through the force more permanently, like Luke after Dagobah or Rey after her look in the mirror. 

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Luke was their to the strongest force user ever born and given weeks of training by a jedi master that lasted several weeks.

Rey is a nobody that spent two days in Ireland got 2/3 the lessons she was supposed to.

How anyone can not see the issues is beyond me.

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7 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

I don't get this prequel/rpg obsession with "Jedi need to have x hours of training to unlock new abilities". Maybe just maybe the prequel Jedi who required life long training from the earliest age possible were just wrong. They created indoctrinated puppets that went into a war where they shouldn't have chosen a side and missed being deceived by a Sith lord for at least a decade. They went too far from the actual force.

A good Jedi needs a connection with the force and the state of mind to listen to it. This is what Yoda taught Luke and both with him and Rey you can see how it works. This state of mind can be reached in singular moments (Luke in the Wampa cave, Rey when fighting Kylo), or through a realisation on how the galaxy is connected through the force more permanently, like Luke after Dagobah or Rey after her look in the mirror. 

I like this a lot. Simply being able to use the Force doesn't actually seem to take a lot of training - or even any training other than gaining the knowledge that that's even a possibility. 

It probably takes more training to do more complicated Force things. We don't really see Rey do anything other than the very relatively simple tasks of pulling things towards her and lifting things, both of which are pretty simple Force skills. She doesn't have any more Force premonition or other mind-related skills than Leia. 

Also, when Kylo very poorly executed the "mind probe" (to use the Destiny CCG' name for that Force skill), he inadvertently showed Rey how to do it as well. That's about as much training as we see Luke receive on how to do Jedi mind tricks.

I will agree, her training is shorter than Luke's. I also think we're supposed to think she's even more powerful in the Force. If that's what bugs you about Rey, fine. But I think that her skills are actually very consistent with her being somewhere between 20% and 50% stronger with the Force than Luke is. 

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So super weapon, but I expect a massive fleet battle. I want to see an unstable Kylo Ren splintering the New Order. Hux vs Ren and the Knights of Ren, perhaps. And I want Luke to haunt Ben. I want grumpy hermit Luke to troll Kylo Ren. 

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On December 29, 2017 at 6:19 PM, TopHatGorilla said:

I am thinking that the next movie will see a major blow against the first order made possible by hux betraying ren over all the force choking and terrible command choices.

Or Kylo dismissing Hux because he has proved to be extremely incompetent and fell for a "your mama joke". This then leads to civil war and the Resistance joins Kylo, changes his heart, and wins the day.

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18 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Luke was their to the strongest force user ever born and given weeks of training by a jedi master that lasted several weeks.

Rey is a nobody that spent two days in Ireland got 2/3 the lessons she was supposed to.

How anyone can not see the issues is beyond me.

Maybe because they actually read the title of the first film of the new trilogy. It is called "The force awakens".  

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21 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Luke was their to the strongest force user ever born and given weeks of training by a jedi master that lasted several weeks.

Rey is a nobody that spent two days in Ireland got 2/3 the lessons she was supposed to.

How anyone can not see the issues is beyond me.

Hobojebus, I think Admiral Deathrain did a pretty good job in his post just above yours. Try to think about it for a second. I like this idea a lot better than the training in a Jedi academy prequel stuff. Also, the new trilogy clearly aims to do away with all the scientific nonsense about the force and tries to bring it back to something ancient and mystical. Something that can't be quantified, a bit like religion, but with actual superpowers.

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I don't it makes being a jedi or a sith meaningless because there was no need for those organisations any force sensitive could just do it on their own.

I don't like the prequels but they are officially canon so you should follow the rules of the universe they set up.

If you Arnt going to honour the universe your a part of set your film elsewhere.

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Just because Midichlorians are canon doesn't mean that they aren't also stupid and deserve to be written out. If we held the starwars franchise to never being better than the garbage that preceded it, we wouldn't have much of a universe...

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On 4.1.2018 at 1:00 PM, Hobojebus said:

I don't it makes being a jedi or a sith meaningless because there was no need for those organisations any force sensitive could just do it on their own.

I don't like the prequels but they are officially canon so you should follow the rules of the universe they set up.

If you Arnt going to honour the universe your a part of set your film elsewhere.

I'm not saying that the Jedi were wrong in their way of going about things. But maybe they weren't always completely right, either. All the training clearly had an impact on their abilities. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't be obtained any other way. The force falls somewhere between magic and religion, which doesn't make it exactly scientific in the first place. There is no formula on how to determine how the force will play out.

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On 12/29/2017 at 5:30 PM, "Quickdraw" said:

(Spoilers TLJ)

Some people says that the little kid at the end of the Last jedi that grabs the broom and the other kids of the film are gonna be the main characters in the new trilogy and it's going to be their story.

I doubt it.. mainly because their logic is flawed. their arguments are basically "well Jedi are always orphans from terrible planets", but like, only 2 Jedi have that background? Anakin and Luke. and neither of them were Orphans (though Luke thought he was. Anakin had a mother until Ep2)

but none of the other jedi we have backgrounds for in the canon fall into that. Ashoka was from a fairly nice planet, and nothing we have indicates she was an orphan or otherwise had a poor upbringing. and the pre-recruitment Younglings we see in one arc of Clone Wars included a rodian child from a fairly high class family, a gungan kid from a fairly well off family, etc. most of the Jedi seem to come from fairly 'first world', well off places. the Skywalkers were just oddities. (and Rey was born into a galaxy where the usual social orders have been heavily disrupted)

Broom kid was just cinematic shorthand for the kind of hope and new future the Jedi Order might have after the events of TLJ.. a force sensitive who idolizes Luke Skywalker and the Resistance. he doesn't need a follow up, he's done his part.

Edited by mithril2098

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On 1/3/2018 at 5:05 AM, Admiral Deathrain said:

I don't get this prequel/rpg obsession with "Jedi need to have x hours of training to unlock new abilities". Maybe just maybe the prequel Jedi who required life long training from the earliest age possible were just wrong. They created indoctrinated puppets that went into a war where they shouldn't have chosen a side and missed being deceived by a Sith lord for at least a decade. They went too far from the actual force.

A good Jedi needs a connection with the force and the state of mind to listen to it. This is what Yoda taught Luke and both with him and Rey you can see how it works. This state of mind can be reached in singular moments (Luke in the Wampa cave, Rey when fighting Kylo), or through a realisation on how the galaxy is connected through the force more permanently, like Luke after Dagobah or Rey after her look in the mirror. 

It is wish fulfillment, where you imagine yourself in the role of the main character. To be fair Luke is to an extent to but the OT came out back when it was more expected for characters to generally work for their power and bettering themselves rather than say the popular Isekai/Other World series that are popular now where an everyday person is introduced and are already OP or are summoned to adventure and become OP as a result. Granted that is more an anime/manga thing. And OP characters are not boring by themselves but generally they need to be interesting say like Saitama from One Punch Man who despite being the strongest person ever also is never recognized for his efforts, has character flaws, and oh yes is a gag character. Lets face it, characters who are outright nice, want to do the right thing without a second thought, are selfless, everyone loves them, is better at everything than everyone else and have little to no growth are not exactly the most compelling characters ever, especially in a more serious series. 

On 1/3/2018 at 1:01 PM, Kieransi said:

I will agree, her training is shorter than Luke's. I also think we're supposed to think she's even more powerful in the Force. If that's what bugs you about Rey, fine. But I think that her skills are actually very consistent with her being somewhere between 20% and 50% stronger with the Force than Luke is. 

Rey has spent days, training at most from the TFA to TLJ to study the force. Luke on the other hand had three years between ANH and ESB to try and study the force, he spends weeks to months with Yoda depending on how long it took the Falcon to limp to Bespin, and then there was a year between ESB and ROTJ for him to study more, and all of that before he uses the Jedi Mind Trick after seeing it in ANH. Conversely Rey uses it without much knowledge, I don't think anyone even told her it was a thing before using it on the Storm trooper. 

1 hour ago, mithril2098 said:

I doubt it.. mainly because their logic is flawed. their arguments are basically "well Jedi are always orphans from terrible planets", but like, only 2 Jedi have that background? 

but none of the other jedi we have backgrounds for in the canon fall into that. Ashoka was from a fairly nice planet, and nothing we have indicates she was an orphan or otherwise had a poor upbringing. and the pre-recruitment Younglings we see in one arc of Clone Wars included a rodian child from a fairly high class family, a gungan kid from a fairly well off family, etc. most of the Jedi seem to come from fairly 'first world', well off places. the Skywalkers were just oddities. (and Rey was born into a galaxy where the usual social orders have been heavily disrupted)

 

Its not so much a first class thing so much as likely they have better records on those planets versus pretty much any place in the outer rim where you might have people having kids off the books or officials who don't feel the need to record and test every backwater farmer on their planet. I imagine there are tons of force sensitive people like Anakin at the start of TPM.

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5 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Its not so much a first class thing so much as likely they have better records on those planets versus pretty much any place in the outer rim where you might have people having kids off the books or officials who don't feel the need to record and test every backwater farmer on their planet. I imagine there are tons of force sensitive people like Anakin at the start of TPM.

true enough. but my point is that the people insisting broom-kid will be the hero of the next one are claiming it is because jedi all have backgrounds like Anakin and luke, even though that isn't actually true.

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4 hours ago, Trghpu1994 said:

I'm glad no one ended up frozen in carbonite at the end of TLJ. no clue where they go but I liked the ending with the kid picking up the broom with the force. That felt hopeful after a downer of a flick.

Agreed! 

It's probably not going to happen, but I think it might be interesting if they have the next film happens in line with how old the actors are, i.e. four years after TFA (and thus TLJ). I think it would be interesting to see Rey trying to start a Jedi academy, because my idea of her using the Force so well is that she kind of combines Han's luck and willingness to be in way over his head with Luke's Force skill. I think Luke could've done most of what Rey does if he'd been less naturally self-deprecatory and cautious (which are, by the way, two of his character traits that I actually like the most). So anyway, I think Rey just had a lot of luck in the first two movies and she'd be in way over her head trying to run a Jedi academy. It would be interesting to see her filling that kind of young, energetic, inexperienced schoolteacher role that shows up in a lot of books (the second Anne of Green Gables book, for example). And it would give us some more main characters if she had a class of somewhere between three and eight memorable, likeable, and unruly tween-age students. 

Edited by Kieransi

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