Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Atomisk

Legacy Pre-View Wave Delayed + Rant

Recommended Posts

FFG, we need to have a talk.

I want to know why you keep doing  these preview waves, because frankly they are bad for the game. I get that most other games do them and you want to too but As a player, I can say the way you've been doing them has been awful for a few reasons.

First, not having solid launch dates sucks. I saw Yoda spoiled what feels like Months ago now, and I've been testing with a proxy for an upcoming regional. The problem is that when I started to do so, we expected early December as the release, which when the set was announced in September wasn't an outrageous assumption, even if it was ultimately wrong. However when December came round and it was clear the set got move  back, I thought, that's fine It'll still be out before Feburary. The 15th came round and, Europe got it early too! That's cool, means it should be out soon right? But nope, we are looking at a Mid January preview. Unless the set launches the week after, which why wouldn't you just say so if that's the case, I'm SOL and should start over and test something else. That is a real NPE and disincentives me actually keeping up with and being invested in your game. While I have my own fault in all this too as I am the one who assumed, I'm sure I'm not the only one. The clear solution for this is solid launch dates, and if cutting out the Previews help that then please do.

Second, limited releases like the one Legacies has seen in Europe and Spirit of Rebellion are problematic in that they currently aren't set up in a way to be conducive for players. In a best case scenario, players get a taste of product that wets the appetite for when the set actually launches. In practice, artificial scarcity creates inflated prices for product and it creates player dissatisfaction when they can't get product. Because, I've heard stories of people who happened to snipe all their lgs' cases and I've seen it with Rivals here in the US too. This just means that you make people frustrated, but more so when people have to play against those cards that are in the wild that they can't even buy it doesn't feel very fair. Yes, you have a 2 week policy for legality from street date, but tell that to someone who's just playing casually or to stores who don't know the rules as well. Now, different regions having different releases is a necessary evil so for clarity I'm not complaining that NA doesn't have product vs the EU here. I'm saying that anyone within a region getting product early sucks. I simply think the bad will you create doing these(as you currently are doing them) intrinsically defeats the benefit of doing them in the first place.

All that said, I'm sure there are efforts behind the scenes that pushed you into making you do these(perhaps Big Papa Disney wanting a tie in, or something up with Asmodee). Regardless, what can we do to fix this issue? I think the key lessons are simple(aka a tldr):

  • Commit to solid launch dates. Like, wait to announce sets if you have to to give realistic launch dates.
  • Curtail spoilers in closer to set launch, as to not kill hype from delays. Plus Legacies was definitely announced too soon after EaW anyways.
  • Pre-product shouldn't ever delay the proper launch of a set.
  • If you must do "pre" product, make the window between launch and pre- product as soon as possible to manage dissatisfaction with scarcity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Distributors also play a part in this problem and it can't all rest at the feet of FFG. I remember distributors pulling a December release out of thin air as soon as the product was announced. FFG has gotten much better with Destiny. As I said in another post this is much better than what we got with Awakenings. With that we had maybe three very small waves, stores were without product until Spirit of Rebellion, and the reprint didn't come until the summer nearly six months after release.

Disney also plays a part in the problem. They want product in stores to hit certain dates. Spirit of Rebellion would have probably released later but Disney wanted a May 4th date. They wanted the 2 Player game to arrive for Force Friday and they wanted Rivals/Legacies to be out for the holidays and to tie into the release of The Last Jedi.

Things got better for Empire At War. large quantities of product available on release day. Sure Rivals/Legacies is having issues but it could be much worse. Also a December release is going to have issues due to deliveries being slowed down due to the holidays. One thing FFG can do is better communicate release dates and availability, I agree 100% with you on this one. However being a player since the game launched I can tell you it was much worse then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently i feel they are just pushing too much too fast and it slowly starts to overwhelm even them. I mean come on i just bought a EaW box in september and wanted to get another one for christmas (3 month span) and what is waiting for me under the tree? Yea brand new white Legacies....not to mention 2x2P set i had to get (if you try to stay competetive you HAD to get it) and Rivals just around the corner for EU (ok this is a minor one but still - 2packs of Rivals will be around 1/3 of full booster box price i guess).

Too much too fast. 3 months between sets with additional minor releases is nowhere near the time that is needed to get the collection required for more than 1-2 decks.

As for the issues you mentioned somehow i did not felt them - AWA availability was never an issue here in Poland (maybe due to localized version), it even backfired in players favour cause market was so saturated with AWA that i heard about free AWA boxes given out at certain events (cause 1/2 price drop and single boosters handed out everywhere was a norm in Poland for a time :D ).  Prereleases....hmm...SoR prerelease was 3 boosters per pre-event. That was perfectly fine - come to LGS, get your 3 boosters, promos and play some casual games. No one expected anything more. Now its pretty weird - you got limited prerelease wave...that you can get in unlimited quantities as long as you manage to grab them faster than others...that weird indeed. Not to mention half of the world getting one product and other half another :D

Edited by Vitalis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason why FFG can't keep to (or have trouble even giving) a street date is due to their printing situation.  FFG might be the biggest game company to NOT have quality in-house printing.  They rely on cheap labor in China and the slow (and cheap) boats that bring their product over from Asia.  MTG cards are printed in the United States (and have been from the beginning) which allows them to easily distribute the product and set firm street dates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Stone37 said:

MTG cards are printed in the United States (and have been from the beginning) which allows them to easily distribute the product and set firm street dates.

For years Magic cards were printed by Cartamundi, in Belgium.

 

Edited by Darth Chump

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, FFG should not be trying to release stuff at the very beginning of the year. Just a very bad time to try to do anything. I am not surprise they missed that date. What they should have done is just made sure they had enough product at the factory to shipped it to warehouses, held it until everything everywhere was set for the worldwide release, like they typically do. These special limited releases are just stupid and uncoordinated and not even tournament legal. Seriously, why bother if you can't even make it tournament legal?

The upcoming page is tracking the official release. These special limited and regional releases aren't on there. Looks like they finally got around to updating that page. Legion is also on the boat, sadly the new Armada stuff is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2017 at 8:58 AM, Darth Chump said:

For years Magic cards were printed by Cartamundi, in Belgium.

 

That company still prints MTG cards and has a huge printing facility in the USA. Wizkids claim the majority of MTG is printed in the American facility and this has been the case from the beginning (1993).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stone37 said:

That company still prints MTG cards and has a huge printing facility in the USA. Wizkids claim the majority of MTG is printed in the American facility and this has been the case from the beginning (1993).

That would be a trick, as Cartamundi didn't have an American presence until 1994, and only sales until 1996.

Having been around for the launch of MtG, it was very well known that the cards were originally printed in Belgium, regardless of what revisionist history WotC says today.  

Edited by kingbobb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. It would have been nice to have a base set before Legacies, like MTG. The Two Player set and Rivals was a enough for now. Don't get me started on the 2 year only rotation. This time next year Awakening will be not tournament legal with SOR shortly thereafter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2017 at 3:49 PM, Mep said:

Yeah, FFG should not be trying to release stuff at the very beginning of the year. Just a very bad time to try to do anything. I am not surprise they missed that date. What they should have done is just made sure they had enough product at the factory to shipped it to warehouses, held it until everything everywhere was set for the worldwide release, like they typically do. These special limited releases are just stupid and uncoordinated and not even tournament legal. Seriously, why bother if you can't even make it tournament legal?

The upcoming page is tracking the official release. These special limited and regional releases aren't on there. Looks like they finally got around to updating that page. Legion is also on the boat, sadly the new Armada stuff is not.

Tournament legal only effects official events, so Regionals at the moment. Regionals make up a very small amount of Destiny play. Do you actually think not being tournament legal is going to stop people from playing Legacies when it's available on the 11th?

The only thing that would prevent local events from allowing Legacies will be if they feel there isn't enough product to go around, and there's been every indication from retailers that this "special limited release" is going to be sizeable enough to fill initial orders. This isn't SoR or Awakenings where each store gets 4 boxes, at this point it is looking like this preview is going to be larger then the actual initial releases of every set but EaW.

Edited by ScottieATF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/12/2017 at 8:16 PM, IceWarm said:

Disney also plays a part in the problem. They want product in stores to hit certain dates. Spirit of Rebellion would have probably released later but Disney wanted a May 4th date. They wanted the 2 Player game to arrive for Force Friday and they wanted Rivals/Legacies to be out for the holidays and to tie into the release of The Last Jedi.

Not to pick on you specifically, but it really bugs me when people repeat this sort of speculation as fact.

ALL we know is that the Two Player set was moved forward for Force Friday. We have no real evidence that Disney has been pressuring FFG over the other release dates. It makes just as much sense that FFG wants their release dates to overlap because of synergistic advertising, like TLJ getting everyone in a Star Wars mood - or them wanting product out before Christmas.

It's fine if you think Disney is secretly pressuring FFG, but don't state your own speculation as fact. If you have evidence that's one thing, but no one ever produces any when they blame Disney for product problems or when we had to wait ages for the most recent errata. It's just all hearsay.

Edited by Theia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Do you actually think not being tournament legal is going to stop people from playing Legacies when it's available on the 11th?

This.

 

We've had Legacies in the UK for about 2 weeks now, aside from a couple of Q4 kits where the TOs deemed legacies not legal I and many others have been playing with Legacies cards. Indeed I and a mate both have got "Trilogy" decks on the go made of just legacies and 2player starter cards to see what that formats gonna be like (pretty enjoyable, although as was the case whem Awakenings was the only set out, a lot of decks pick themselves due to a lack of options).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, DJRAZZ said:

Yes. It would have been nice to have a base set before Legacies, like MTG. The Two Player set and Rivals was a enough for now. Don't get me started on the 2 year only rotation. This time next year Awakening will be not tournament legal with SOR shortly thereafter.

SOR and Awakenings and EAW all drop out of tournament legality at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, DJRAZZ said:

Yes. It would have been nice to have a base set before Legacies, like MTG. The Two Player set and Rivals was a enough for now. Don't get me started on the 2 year only rotation. This time next year Awakening will be not tournament legal with SOR shortly thereafter.

Legacies is a base set. And MtG has a 2 year rotation as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Tournament legal only effects official events, so Regionals at the moment. Regionals make up a very small amount of Destiny play. Do you actually think not being tournament legal is going to stop people from playing Legacies when it's available on the 11th?

The only thing that would prevent local events from allowing Legacies will be if they feel there isn't enough product to go around, and there's been every indication from retailers that this "special limited release" is going to be sizeable enough to fill initial orders. This isn't SoR or Awakenings where each store gets 4 boxes, at this point it is looking like this preview is going to be larger then the actual initial releases of every set but EaW.

I hear it is going to be a good sized release as well. FFG is stating it is going to be  limited quantities. I also heard it was being released on Dec 15, then Dec 22nd, then Jan 4th and now Jan 11th. Seems that info is as reliable as the upcoming page.

If it is a sizable release, they should just make it the official release. They really made a mess out of all of this. I have no problem with game stores jumping the gun and allowing Legacies in tournaments as long as that limited quantities means there is product on the self after everyone bought what they wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Tournament legal only effects official events, so Regionals at the moment. Regionals make up a very small amount of Destiny play. Do you actually think not being tournament legal is going to stop people from playing Legacies when it's available on the 11th?

The only thing that would prevent local events from allowing Legacies will be if they feel there isn't enough product to go around, and there's been every indication from retailers that this "special limited release" is going to be sizeable enough to fill initial orders. This isn't SoR or Awakenings where each store gets 4 boxes, at this point it is looking like this preview is going to be larger then the actual initial releases of every set but EaW.

must not played many card games, most card games not named magic uses the standard as the default format to use and it is the format the playtesters are designing cards for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't care that rotation is effectively delayed, even if it is a good thing for those saying 2 years is too short. I just hate that FFG is so wishy-washy on this stuff since them being inconsistent with release dates means that they could do the opposite. They get up to 4 releases a year like magic, and we still have 3 blocks that would be rough.

And for those who say no one cares outside of big events I say this: that still creates a dilemma for those who want to play those big events. If my lgs is playing the new format that won't be legal for the next big event, then what's the point of testing decks at locals against decks that won't be in the meta? This is a bigger deal than you think to people like me. And a week or two is one thing, but it looks from estimates that these cards won't be officially released for over a month after the preview? So that just means that will be a month+ of me not showing up to locals. I was super excited to be testing the new set too, but now I don't see the point now till after those events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, soviet prince said:

must not played many card games, most card games not named magic uses the standard as the default format to use and it is the format the playtesters are designing cards for.

None of what you just said is at all related to my post that you quoted. No one was talking formats.

Mep asked why bother with a preview wave since it won't even be tournament legal yet. I was pointing out that tournament legal only applies to official events and that not being tournament legal yet won't stop people from playing with Legacies locally, because official tournament legality had no bearing on how people run those events. And those events make up a much larger scope of Destiny play and involve way more of the playerbase then Regionals, which are the current in going official events. If the store can get enough Legacies in they'll let players use it, even though it isn't yet tournament legal.

So zero clue where you're pulling your reply from. Though you seem unaware that Pokemon runs Expanded as well as Standard Regionals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

None of what you just said is at all related to my post that you quoted. No one was talking formats.

Mep asked why bother with a preview wave since it won't even be tournament legal yet. I was pointing out that tournament legal only applies to official events and that not being tournament legal yet won't stop people from playing with Legacies locally, because official tournament legality had no bearing on how people run those events. And those events make up a much larger scope of Destiny play and involve way more of the playerbase then Regionals, which are the current in going official events. If the store can get enough Legacies in they'll let players use it, even though it isn't yet tournament legal.

So zero clue where you're pulling your reply from. Though you seem unaware that Pokemon runs Expanded as well as Standard Regionals

must had misread your post sorry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it is a big deal for those in the US since we'll have Legacies go official some time between the first and second wave of product. For Europe it is a dilemma since some people actually only want the "official format" played at weekly events while others want to play with their new toys and they're in limbo for a good month. I am not sure it is a huge problem but certainly a mess and that is enough time to affect several regionals and many quarterly kits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mep said:

I don't think it is a big deal for those in the US since we'll have Legacies go official some time between the first and second wave of product. For Europe it is a dilemma since some people actually only want the "official format" played at weekly events while others want to play with their new toys and they're in limbo for a good month. I am not sure it is a huge problem but certainly a mess and that is enough time to affect several regionals and many quarterly kits.

As one of those people who want to play in regionals/GQs this definitely affects since as I said I will want to just play the official format if I'm going to those events. No reason to show at locals if everyone is gonna be playing with Legacies and I can't.

And I disagree that availability won't affect us in the US, I recall how expensive singles got between the launch of SoR and the preview they did in April. If product availability isn't an issue, as you've said in a previous post, why isn't it a full release? The only imaginable reason is that it wouldn't be plentiful. So why release it?

I again stress these are really bad ideas FFG. Please, just stop doing these :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So at the end of the Legacies format the Awakenings format will be gone? Too bad for all those who bought the money cards even as late as EAW, Ancient Light Saber comes to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...