Snow Troopers - a little underwhelmed

[svelok 6,487]

5 minutes ago, Col. Dash said:

Where did you guys see the stats of snow troopers?

Zooming in and ready the smudges.

5 minutes ago, Col. Dash said:

Any indication they are going to have faction themed army lists yet? Say a Snowtrooper army and regular trooper army as opposed to generic army list mix and match crap?

No - but what do you mean exactly? Like a restriction that you can't take certain things? Or a bonus for taking certain things?

You can already field an army of Vader/Veers/Snowtroopers/AT-STs if you want a Hoth army, for example.

[Col. Dash 48]

To me the game is just as much visually a spectacle as it is a game, you should see some of the BA boards we play on. Along those lines yes, if you play a Snowtrooper army you are restricted to Snowtroopers as troopers and no scouts but you gain a bonus of an additional unit choice over the standard force org like bringing an extra E-Web or AT ST(just throwing out examples) since snow trooper legions tend to be more heavily equipped than standard storm trooper legions. In the canon there are no mixed storm/snow armies. If you play a Generic storm trooper force org all your infantry have to be Storm troopers and scout troopers. You get no bonuses except you can pick anything except the special environment troopers. Keeping a theme to me is far more important than anything else in the game and with Star Wars being so thematic it will be heart breaking to see mix and matched armies running around especially from the power gamer crowd. 

[Ralgon 1,005]

4 minutes ago, Col. Dash said:

To me the game is just as much visually a spectacle as it is a game, you should see some of the BA boards we play on. Along those lines yes, if you play a Snowtrooper army you are restricted to Snowtroopers as troopers and no scouts but you gain a bonus of an additional unit choice over the standard force org like bringing an extra E-Web or AT ST(just throwing out examples) since snow trooper legions tend to be more heavily equipped than standard storm trooper legions. In the canon there are no mixed storm/snow armies. If you play a Generic storm trooper force org all your infantry have to be Storm troopers and scout troopers. You get no bonuses except you can pick anything except the special environment troopers. Keeping a theme to me is far more important than anything else in the game and with Star Wars being so thematic it will be heart breaking to see mix and matched armies running around especially from the power gamer crowd. 

After a fashion you are already restricted like this, you can't for example drop an aa 12 on snowtroopers or give your stormies ion cannons.

As for the rest of it to heck with that!! i don't want my imp meta defined by i bought the wrong upgrades, and phooey to your broken immersion!

[gamer1886 3]

So do we know yet if you can take the same action twice in a round?  IE the move+free attack+move or move+move+free attack?  Other FFG games don't let you take the same action twice.  So I would guess it will be the same with Legion.  

[Jabby 1,042]

2 minutes ago, gamer1886 said:

So do we know yet if you can take the same action twice in a round?  IE the move+free attack+move or move+move+free attack?  Other FFG games don't let you take the same action twice.  So I would guess it will be the same with Legion.  

You can only do a move twice the rest of them only once

[LennoxPoodle 191]

@Ralgon With the small non-wave releases there hopefully won't be enough time for the META to settle in before the next change comes. This way the tinkering around would be the way to go 24/365 like in the early days of each wave in the other games. I guess this will remain a wish, but META kind of hinders creative development of individual playstiles (in the upper echelon).

[OldSchoolEmpire 80]

I think theme will come down to personal preference, I personally have no qualms about running Storm troopers and snow troopers together in a list, I think they are pretty complementary. 

 

1 hour ago, player1750031 said:

How much different though? They're still a trooper unit with similar upgrade slots, and anti-tank weapon and an anti-personnel weapon. Plus they're very climate-specific and will stick out like a sore thumb on most tables and alongside other units. It's nice we're getting new stuff announced, but I'd prefer the first couple waves included stuff that's different from the core box and stuff that's less specific thematically. Royal Guards come to mind. And if they abslutely had to have a second 'trooper' unit, why not Death Troopers for a more elite choice with different equipment or dismounted Scout Troopers with some cool recon abilities?

The only climate that the Empire doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, would be one covered in snow/ice. 

[AldousSnow 822]

Minus the obvious clone commander, heres the color scheme I'll be using for my Marines. The unit leader having the black cowl and boots with the green goggles. I cannot wait to see a unit or two of Galactic Marines aka snowtroopers on the table.

 

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

4 hours ago, Col. Dash said:

To me the game is just as much visually a spectacle as it is a game, you should see some of the BA boards we play on. Along those lines yes, if you play a Snowtrooper army you are restricted to Snowtroopers as troopers and no scouts but you gain a bonus of an additional unit choice over the standard force org like bringing an extra E-Web or AT ST(just throwing out examples) since snow trooper legions tend to be more heavily equipped than standard storm trooper legions. In the canon there are no mixed storm/snow armies. If you play a Generic storm trooper force org all your infantry have to be Storm troopers and scout troopers. You get no bonuses except you can pick anything except the special environment troopers. Keeping a theme to me is far more important than anything else in the game and with Star Wars being so thematic it will be heart breaking to see mix and matched armies running around especially from the power gamer crowd. 

But why restrict the people who don't want mini factions?I want Stormtroopers and snowtroopers.  Does it make perfect sense?  No. Can I live with that?  **** yes!  I can paint them as combat engineers, Marines, shock troops or just accept that they are cool and I want them.  It doesn't make sense business wise because it divides the consumer base instead of getting imperial players to want each new release.

[Col. Dash 48]

Different force orgs for the same factions works great in many other games, whats the difference here? You have a general Imperial faction list that has the bastardized list you want for mix matching with everything on it, then you have a snow trooper list and a sand trooper list and so forth specialized for them. Snow troopers get one extra E-web, sand troopers get the option of an extra dewback, but both are limited to their specialized troops in selection. Very easy and thematic. No one says you cant play the general roster list but if you specialize you get perks as well as restrictions.

[ShadowKite 337]

1 minute ago, Col. Dash said:

Different force orgs for the same factions works great in many other games, whats the difference here? You have a general Imperial faction list that has the bastardized list you want for mix matching with everything on it, then you have a snow trooper list and a sand trooper list and so forth specialized for them. Snow troopers get one extra E-web, sand troopers get the option of an extra dewback, but both are limited to their specialized troops in selection. Very easy and thematic. No one says you cant play the general roster list but if you specialize you get perks as well as restrictions.

Well so far as we can tell in this game the only perk you get is the warm fuzzy feeling of having a fully thematic army.

[Extropia 1,475]

The difference in this game is that, at least initially, it's much smaller an the other games with "specialist force orgs" and the like.

Here won't really be enough options to even consider it for at least a year or two most likely, given FFGs release speed. And I doubt they'll do it even then, they certainly haven't with their other games.

I suppose it could happen, but I won't hold my breath.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

3 hours ago, Col. Dash said:

Different force orgs for the same factions works great in many other games, whats the difference here? You have a general Imperial faction list that has the bastardized list you want for mix matching with everything on it, then you have a snow trooper list and a sand trooper list and so forth specialized for them. Snow troopers get one extra E-web, sand troopers get the option of an extra dewback, but both are limited to their specialized troops in selection. Very easy and thematic. No one says you cant play the general roster list but if you specialize you get perks as well as restrictions.

So far ffg had set themselves apart by providing lots of units for their factions rather than releasing a new faction over and over again.  Having lots of options makes for a more interesting game. You don't need a perk or restriction when you play all snowtroopers because your force is going to play in an interesting and unique way just by the nature of it's composition. The difference in play style already sets it apart. I don't need ffg telling me how to build my army when there is already an army structure rule. At some point they may release a snowtrooper commander which would further make your force interesting and unique by it's command cards.  The main reason I don't want to see mini factions is because people will find the optimal mix of units within that faction and that is all you will ever see from that point on. Give me deep options and leave the theme building to me.

[Gadgetron 487]

I'm somewhat upset that the snowtroopers weren't just reskins of stormtroopers with different included cards.

They should have come with new weapons and upgrade cards, and the option for a more specialized, more expensive unit choice, what they made the snowtroopers is fine. (The new weapons sprue coming with standard stormtrooper arms in addition to the snowtroopers)

I'm just not sure I want to see snowtroopers on Endor or Tatooine just because they have a different ability.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Gadgetron

[Lucasw42 6]

snowtroopers appear to be either a few points cheaper or a few points more then stormtroopers. 

stormtroopers are 44 and snowtroopers look to be either 40 or maybe 46-48? 

[Rammstein117 227]

Anyone who can't suspend disbelief might end up having issues with this game. If you want to play according to lore nothing is stopping you. The core set already breaks the lore cause Luke and Vader never fought in a war/skirmish setting, only in intimate duels. It's best to look at all of this as a what if scenario or spin off.

[player1750031 841]

3 hours ago, Rammstein117 said:

Anyone who can't suspend disbelief might end up having issues with this game. If you want to play according to lore nothing is stopping you.

Of course no one is stopping anyone. If I don't want to play Snowtroopers on my woodland table, I won't buy them and no one is forcing me to do otherwise.

Problem is, with such a theme-specific unit released so early in the game's lifecycle, not fielding that unit due to thematic reasons means denying myself 25% of the entire product line for my faction. I don't have a problem with FFG releasing Snowtroopers for the game, it was bound to happen. However, I do have a problem with FFG releasing Snowtroopers before any of the dozen or so units that any one of us can think off the top of our heads that are completely 'environment agnostic' and to boot, would be way more interesting than the same kind of trooper with the same gun, only in a dress.

Edited December 22, 2017 by player1750031

[Gadgetron 487]

4 hours ago, Rammstein117 said:

Anyone who can't suspend disbelief might end up having issues with this game. If you want to play according to lore nothing is stopping you. The core set already breaks the lore cause Luke and Vader never fought in a war/skirmish setting, only in intimate duels. It's best to look at all of this as a what if scenario or spin off.

But its a super easy fix, just make a slight visually distinguishing factor between the assault stormtroopers/snowtroopers (using snowtrooper rules) and standard stormtroopers/snowtroopers (using standard stormtrooper rules) then you can use the models based on terrain!  This could be unit designations on he model, this could be a mark on the base, or it could be leaving a unit designation token next to the unit.  The only real difficulty is the lack of certain special weapons, I can probably work this out.  This same idea could be used with rebel troopers as well, and they'll (likely) have Echo base troopers and Alderaanian consular security too.  I don't play in tournaments, and at least one of my friends already pointed this issue out as well, so in my case it shouldn't be an issue, it just seems like a missed opportunity on FFGs part, not game breaking by any stretch, but just missed.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Gadgetron

[Hawktel 291]

I think Another thought for me is Vader is slow. Speed one. Having him escorted by some slow accurate fire makes sense. You take him and a pair of Snow Trooper squads, and if they stay away they are getting shot at, and if they get close they are getting sabered. Its a nice synergy.

[svelok 6,487]

1 hour ago, player1750031 said:

Problem is, with such a theme-specific unit released so early in the game's lifecycle, not fielding that unit due to thematic reasons means denying myself 25% of the entire product line for my faction. I don't have a problem with FFG releasing Snowtroopers for the game, it was bound to happen. However, I do have a problem with FFG releasing Snowtroopers before any of the dozen or so units that any one of us can think off the top of our heads that are completely 'environment agnostic' and to boot, would be way more interesting than the same kind of trooper with the same gun, only in a dress.

On the other hand, it's much better to keep it simple in a game's early life. 

Otherwise you run into situations like X-Wing had, where stuff in early waves ended up being really broken in unexpected ways as the game came into its own.

[Darth 2Face 235]

On 12/21/2017 at 9:19 AM, AldousSnow said:

Minus the obvious clone commander, heres the color scheme I'll be using for my Marines. The unit leader having the black cowl and boots with the green goggles. I cannot wait to see a unit or two of Galactic Marines aka snowtroopers on the table.

 

I love this idea. I was trying to think of what to do to make the snowtroopers less "snowy" while also sticking to the canon. This is perfect.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Darth 2Face

[Attackmack 525]

Snowtroopers? No way, these are my Shock Troops!

[Dorn05 152]

On 21/12/2017 at 10:55 PM, Extropia said:

I think they look great as an alternative to Stormies. Alternatives are what the game should aim for, because if something is better, why take the worse thing?

They both serve a role...similar but different in important ways, so there's space for both.

If they manage this with the Rebel version, I'll consider it a good sign for the games balance.

You summed up my thoughts exactly. Similar but different. I'm planning to run Storm- and Snow- together.

[LennoxPoodle 191]

@Extropia They could also have been designed in a way, which benefits from deciding for one type. This way they are pretty complementary and work well together. I don't think that was the right call. Synergy (not necessarily explicit) within one type instead of synergy between types would have encouraged to decide for one way without forcefully restricting a mixed approach.

[Extropia 1,475]

2 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

@Extropia They could also have been designed in a way, which benefits from deciding for one type. This way they are pretty complementary and work well together. I don't think that was the right call. Synergy (not necessarily explicit) within one type instead of synergy between types would have encouraged to decide for one way without forcefully restricting a mixed approach.

I’ll be honest....it might be the Christmas Day drinking, but I can’t make head nor tail of that post, sorry! Are you saying it’s a bad thing that they are complementary and work well together?