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Genesys Talents Expanded

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Identify Weakness

Tier: 2
Activation: Active (Maneuver)
Ranked: No

Once per encounter as a maneuver, your character may take an Identify Weakness maneuver. They make a Simple (-) Knowledge check. Count the number of [success] you roll. During the encounter, your character may add a [success] to a roll, after the dice are rolled but before success or damage is calculated. You may add any number of [success] to a roll, but the total number of [success] added to all rolls may not exceed the number rolled on the Identify Weakness check.

Exploit Weakness

Tier: 1
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No

Your character must have purchased the Identify Weakness talent to benefit from this talent. You may allow your allies to use the successes generated with your Identify Weakness maneuver.

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7 hours ago, CitizenKeen said:

Identify Weakness

...

Exploit Weakness

...

These seem really neat mechanically. Although I might have worded it a little differently. With Identify Weakness defining a pool of "found weaknesses" which you  can spend as described. That way one could write future talents that drew from the same pool; such as Exploitable Hazard (spend found weaknesses as maneuver to create a hazard), or Critical Exploit (spend found weaknesses during an attack check to trigger a critical injury or a critical hit).

Also, is Exploit Weakness supposed to be lower than its prerequisite?

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10 hours ago, Cantriped said:

These seem really neat mechanically. Although I might have worded it a little differently. With Identify Weakness defining a pool of "found weaknesses" which you  can spend as described. That way one could write future talents that drew from the same pool; such as Exploitable Hazard (spend found weaknesses as maneuver to create a hazard), or Critical Exploit (spend found weaknesses during an attack check to trigger a critical injury or a critical hit).

Also, is Exploit Weakness supposed to be lower than its prerequisite?

The phrasing is... not great. I'll admit it. Comprehensiveness versus readability versus first draft, etc.

Regarding Exploit, yes. It's why I didn't call it Identify Weakness (Improved). Once you have the pool, I don't think letting other players use it is a huge bonus, because it's still the same sized pool of "found weaknesses", just spread thinner.

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27 minutes ago, CitizenKeen said:

The phrasing is... not great. I'll admit it. Comprehensiveness versus readability versus first draft, etc.

Oh I totally get it. My first drafts are usually heavily overworded. Regarding the wording, be sure to specify "Uncanceled Successes", because even though the check is usually Simple, various conditions could upgrade or increase the difficulty (or add Setbacks).

You should also specify what happens if multiple characters have Identify and Exploit Weakness. Can they effectively generate a massive pool of shared "found weaknesses"?

Regarding Exploit Weakness

1 hour ago, CitizenKeen said:

Regarding Exploit, yes. It's why I didn't call it Identify Weakness (Improved). Once you have the pool, I don't think letting other players use it is a huge bonus, because it's still the same sized pool of "found weaknesses", just spread thinner.

As an alternative, I suggest you change Exploit Weakness into a tier 1 talent with no prerequisites which allows a character to spend an ally's "found weaknesses" (but not generate any themselves). All future talents in this talent-bush would require it as a prerequisite instead.

This allows for the narrative of an experienced leader (with Identify Weakness) generating the pool of found weaknesses which his less experienced allies (with Exploit Weakness) use, while also spreading the experience investiture around a little. Like Teamwork feats in Pathfinder; except the leader invests more than the followers. I worry a little about a 'super-leader' being able to stack all of the benefits of these talents onto any random 'super-fighter' (or worse, onto a Conjured being).

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3 hours ago, Cantriped said:

Oh I totally get it. My first drafts are usually heavily overworded. Regarding the wording, be sure to specify "Uncanceled Successes", because even though the check is usually Simple, various conditions could upgrade or increase the difficulty (or add Setbacks).

You should also specify what happens if multiple characters have Identify and Exploit Weakness. Can they effectively generate a massive pool of shared "found weaknesses"?

Regarding Exploit Weakness

As an alternative, I suggest you change Exploit Weakness into a tier 1 talent with no prerequisites which allows a character to spend an ally's "found weaknesses" (but not generate any themselves). All future talents in this talent-bush would require it as a prerequisite instead.

This allows for the narrative of an experienced leader (with Identify Weakness) generating the pool of found weaknesses which his less experienced allies (with Exploit Weakness) use, while also spreading the experience investiture around a little. Like Teamwork feats in Pathfinder; except the leader invests more than the followers. I worry a little about a 'super-leader' being able to stack all of the benefits of these talents onto any random 'super-fighter' (or worse, onto a Conjured being).

I don't think that needs to be specified, because the rules are the same. There are now two pools of Found Weaknesses that can be used.

And regarding Exploit Weakness, I'm somewhat okay with a "super leader" character. In my game, the specific Knowledge skill used is Science. The goal is to find cool things for characters with non-combat skills to do in combat. I don't want to penalize that goal by making other people spend XP on it.

I might up Exploit to a higher Tier and let it take advantage of all the uses of the Knowledge-rollers Found Weaknesses (critical hits, etc.)

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On 11/1/2018 at 3:42 PM, CitizenKeen said:

Identify Weakness

Tier: 2
Activation: Active (Maneuver)
Ranked: No

Once per encounter as a maneuver, your character may take an Identify Weakness maneuver. They make a Simple (-) Knowledge check. Count the number of [success] you roll. During the encounter, your character may add a [success] to a roll, after the dice are rolled but before success or damage is calculated. You may add any number of [success] to a roll, but the total number of [success] added to all rolls may not exceed the number rolled on the Identify Weakness check.

Exploit Weakness

Tier: 1
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No

Your character must have purchased the Identify Weakness talent to benefit from this talent. You may allow your allies to use the successes generated with your Identify Weakness maneuver.

I really like this but I wonder if it should be just a Simple check or a check against the item/person you whose weakness you are identifying. 

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Identify Weakness (Improve)

Tier: 3
Activation: Active (Maneuver)
Ranked: No

Once per encounter as a maneuver, your character may take an Identify Weakness maneuver.
They make a Knowledge check vs the targets Cool or Vigilance.
Count the number of [successes] and [advantages] you roll.
During the encounter, your character may spend 2 strain to add [successes] to a roll, after the dice are rolled but before success or damage is calculated.
This can be repeated a number of [advantages] times during the encounter.

Edited by Terefang

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Looks good but drop Vigilance.  How alert they are shouldn't effect the inspection.  OK, now that I say that I can see where it could but I would think Cool - being how they handle themselves or Deception  - being able to hide the weakness would be better option.

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Identify Weakness (Improve)

Tier: 3
Activation: Active (Maneuver)
Ranked: No

Once per encounter as a maneuver, your character may take an Identify Weakness maneuver.
They make a Knowledge check vs the targets Cool or Deception.
Count the number of [successes] and [advantages] you roll.
During the encounter, your character may spend 2 strain to add [successes] to a roll, after the dice are rolled but before success or damage is calculated.
This can be repeated a number of [advantages] times during the encounter.

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Hey guys, just a small observation. In the page 8, there's a talent called Animal Expertise, but in the text the talent is mencioned as Hunter twice instead of Animal Expertise. I think this is a just a small mistake, but would be good to adjust this.

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how about an alternative to "Signature Spell (improved)":

Arch-Magister

  • Tier: 4
  • Activation: Passive
  • Ranked: Yes

Your character must have purchased the Signature Spell talent to benefit from this
talent. When your character casts their signature spell(s), downgrade the difficulty of the
check by the rank of the talent.

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Posted (edited)

TEMPLAR (ADVANCED)
Tier: 4
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
Your character must have purchased the Templar (Improved) talent to benefit from this talent. Your character can now cast one additional spell using Divine skill per encounter per rank of Templar (Advanced) talent.

 

TEMPLAR (ADVANCED)
Tier: 3
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Your character must have purchased the Templar (Improved) talent to benefit from this talent. Your character can now cast two spells using Divine skill per encounter, instead.

 

What do you think about these talents? Which of these two seems more balanced?

Edited by Armoks

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On 1/8/2019 at 1:58 AM, Armoks said:

TEMPLAR (ADVANCED)
Tier: 4
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
Your character must have purchased the Templar (Improved) talent to benefit from this talent. Your character can now cast one additional spell using Divine skill per encounter per rank of Templar (Advanced) talent.

 

TEMPLAR (ADVANCED)
Tier: 3
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Your character must have purchased the Templar (Improved) talent to benefit from this talent. Your character can now cast two spells using Divine skill per encounter, instead.

 

What do you think about these talents? Which of these two seems more balanced?

They both seem fine, to me. The nice thing about the ranked version is it makes it possible to get to 3 divine spells per encounter, but only if the player is willing to spend a tier 5 talent on it. As a fan of having more options to play with and agonize over as a player, I'd enjoy that one more. As a fan of making my life less complicated as a GM, I'd probably prefer the tier 3.

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On 1/8/2019 at 12:58 AM, Armoks said:

What do you think about these talents? Which of these two seems more balanced?

Of the two, I'd say the second is more balanced... however I don't particularly see the point in buying/using either of them, or the original talent for that matter.

Templar only even needs to exist because of RoT's specific permutation of the Magic System. Otherwise you could just buy a rank in Divine later (for the same initial cost of 10 XP). Assuming you take Divine to Rank 5, you'll only save 20 XP over someone who just developed the skill cross-career (but can cast their spells without restriction). 

If I really wanted to play a more casterly Templar, I'd just start with a career that gave me access to Divine instead; even if I ended up paying more for Melee or Brawl developing it cross-career. Its worth it to avoid the arbitrary restriction on magic-use.

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2 hours ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Is this going to be updated with the new talents from Shadows of the Beanstalk?

Sorry.  Real life got busy and I dropped the ball on this project.  When the Android pdf drops, I'll copy it over.  And I'll get all the other work that the rest off the team has already done published.

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12 hours ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Is this going to be updated with the new talents from Shadows of the Beanstalk?

I have started maintaining a separate document called Talent Tome which is just the published talents and has already been updated with content from SotB. You can find it in my dropbox.

 

Edited by drainsmith
a word

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