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TheSapient

Genesys Talents Expanded

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or mark it as problematic, subject to GMs consideration, etc

 

and it is not without prior example: in Pathfinder we have Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave

Edited by Terefang

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True aim is a better talent to take than Dedication if you are a fighting character, it’s literally that good. If it was introduced you would not be able to have it Ranked as it would then be an unlimited upgrade possibility which should be avoided.

So if you want to add it into Genesys what should you do? The talent would need to be rewritten to be unranked, upgrading the check by a set number of times, which is exactly what Intense Focus does. Now because it’s restricted to combat only skills you could perhaps keep it at t5 just like Intense Focus but have it Upgrade the check twice instead.

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2 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

True aim is a better talent to take than Dedication if you are a fighting character, it’s literally that good. If it was introduced you would not be able to have it Ranked as it would then be an unlimited upgrade possibility which should be avoided.

So if you want to add it into Genesys what should you do? The talent would need to be rewritten to be unranked, upgrading the check by a set number of times, which is exactly what Intense Focus does. Now because it’s restricted to combat only skills you could perhaps keep it at t5 just like Intense Focus but have it Upgrade the check twice instead.

my interpretation:

 

True Aim (T5, Ranked)

Once per round, you may perform a True Aim maneuver expending Strain up to your Rank in True Aim to gain the benefits of aiming and upgrade combat check by the amount of Strain expended.

 

since my version requires expending strain, it could be moved to Tier 4 for balance

 

Edited by Terefang

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13 minutes ago, Terefang said:

since my version requires expending strain, it could be moved to Tier 4 for balance

i have looked into the expanded talent list: "Precise Aim", is similar in mechanic but decreases defense directly per strain suffered:

Quote

Precise Aim
Tier: 4
Activation: Active (Incidental)
Ranked: Yes
Once per round on the character’s turn,
when the character performs an Aim
maneuver before attempting a combat
check, may suffer a number of strain. The
number of strain cannot exceed his ranks in
Precise Aim. He then decreases the target’s
defense (ranged and melee) by one per strain
suffered for that combat check.
Sources: EBGR, ECRB, SS

 

so i reinterprete:

True Aim
Tier: 5
Activation: Active (Incidental)
Ranked: Yes

Once per round on the character’s turn,
when the character performs an Aim
maneuver before attempting a combat
check, may suffer a number of strain. The
number of strain cannot exceed her ranks in
True Aim. She then upgrades the ability of
the combat check by one per strain
suffered for that combat check.

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If precise Aim is T4 why is True Aim T5 ? Is increasing the ability of the combat more powerful than decreasing both ranged and melee target's defence ? Personnaly I doubt it when I read both talents.

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30 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

If precise Aim is T4 why is True Aim T5 ? Is increasing the ability of the combat more powerful than decreasing both ranged and melee target's defence ? Personnaly I doubt it when I read both talents.

Yep Upgrades are definitely better, if you’re dice pool is PPP and you Upgrade it once then you add a green as well as a boost. The thing is that for a character purchasing a combat talent at tier 4 or 5 the Success of a combat check is mostly a forgone conclusion, especially if they are a melee character. What that person really wants is more Advantage or Triumph, the best way to improve those odds is with upgrades.

Reducing Defence is not always possible since some characters don’t have Defence, and it’s also has an actual limit of removing 4.

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On 5/16/2018 at 3:50 PM, TheSapient said:

I think that using keywords would be most useful for an dynamic software interface.

how far (if any) is the effort of assigning keywords to the talents.

especially for specific fantasy settings i would recommend having "low magic", "medium magic", "high magic"

 

most default talents in Genesys seam to be "low magic" anyhow

Edited by Terefang

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9 minutes ago, Terefang said:

how far (if any) is the effort of assigning keywords to the talents.

especially for specific fantasy settings i would recommend having "low magic", "medium magic", "high magic"

 

most default talents in Genesys seam to be "low magic" anyhow

We haven't done anything with keywords. 

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have you considered adding a "home-brew" section yet ?

(at least for things that can be considered generic enough)

 

hmm ... than again if a home-brew talent is generic enough to be included standalone, without any additional explainations, then it is CCC anyhow.

Edited by Terefang

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GENESYS TALENTS EXPANDED Version 4.2 IS HERE

changes include three new talents from Unlimited Power and small fixes and adjustments

NOW AVAILABLE IN TWO PDF FORMATS

@drainsmith has created a beautiful, graphically rich document.  Community created content is provided with FFG talents.

The "classic", printer friendly format is also still available, with community created content separated out at the end.

Genesys Talents Expanded VERSION 4.2 (pdf)

Genesys Talents Expanded Classic VERSION 4.2 (pdf)

Word File for your editing pleasure

Excel file for developing your own lists.

Changelog

Thank you to the whole team, and especially @drainsmith for his new presentation.

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how often can Deadly Accuracy be used.  The wording on it is vague.

Deadly Accuracy
Tier: 4
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill. Add damage
equal to ranks in that skill to one hit of successful attack
made using that skill. May not choose the same skill
more than once.

Source:

Edited by Exogorth

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The way it’s written it is something that applies every single time you attack, but only to a single hit from each attack. Honestly it’s probably a bit over powered, you could make it a manoeuvre to activate it on your next attack, or (at tier 3) cost 2 Strain when you want to use it.

If you make it cost a Story Point like Lucky Strike then it would Tier 2, but I would take the Ranked option away if I did that.

Another option you could use is to make it a once per encounter ability, which would drop it to tier 3 (or even t2 if you are generous).

Finally you could require Advantage to trigger it, perhaps 4 Advantage at tier 2, but each rank reduces the cost by 1 Advantage. So rank 1(t2)=AAA, Rank 2 (t3)=AA, Rank 3(T4)=A, Rank 4(t5)= automatic. This would also require the language of the talent to be changed so that you could only ever have this with one skill.

The Advantage option is probably my favourite, it’s ok at rank 1, probably only happens on a Triumph, by rank 3 though it’s quite easy to activate regularly 

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Deadly Accuracy
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill. After making a successful combat check with that skill you may spend 4 Advantage to add damage
equal to your ranks in that skill to one hit of the attack. Each rank of the talent reduces the Advantage cost by 1, to a minimum of 0.

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15 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Deadly Accuracy
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill. After making a successful combat check with that skill you may spend 4 Advantage to add damage
equal to your ranks in that skill to one hit of the attack. Each rank of the talent reduces the Advantage cost by 1, to a minimum of 0.

this feels like

  • buying a T2 Talent
  • to let me spend my advantages and triumphs
  • to make some more damage (+1 to +5)
  • which may be better spend on a critical wound.

for one success and 4 advantages i would rather like to trigger critical damage than just push the damage into critical range.

 

my variation on it:

Deadly Accuracy
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill. After making a successful combat check with that skill you may suffer
(not more than your ranks in that skill) strain to add damage to to one hit of the attack.
The damage added is equal to the amount of strain suffered plus your ranks in the Talent.
You may spend [A] from the combat check to increase damage by +2 (this can be done more than once).

 

why my variation ?

  1. it gives you two incentives, buying skill and buying talent ranks.
  2. it scales out more, because the original interpretation limits damage added to a mere +5
  3. allows you also to spend some rolled advantages for more damage
Edited by Terefang

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The sheer damage potential of that is frightening, it wouldn’t be too challenging to add 10 Damage to a melee Strike, which may already be doing 12-14 Damage, and because it doesn’t need a Story Point it Stacks with Lucky Strike, adding an additional 4 or 5. You could perhaps hit for 25 Damage at only the cost of 3 Strain and a Story Point... that’s a little but out of hand.

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1 hour ago, Richardbuxton said:

The sheer damage potential of that is frightening, it wouldn’t be too challenging to add 10 Damage to a melee Strike, which may already be doing 12-14 Damage, and because it doesn’t need a Story Point it Stacks with Lucky Strike, adding an additional 4 or 5. You could perhaps hit for 25 Damage at only the cost of 3 Strain and a Story Point... that’s a little but out of hand.

ok ... i might have been falled back to whfrp mode.

and ... after re-reading i found a wording error.

and ... adjusting the advantage spend

and ... adjustments after reading Lucky Strike

 

Deadly Accuracy (Version #1)
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
After making a successful combat check with that skill you may suffer 
(not more than your ranks in that skill plus ranks in the Talent) strain to add damage to to one hit of the attack.
The damage added is equal to the amount of strain suffered.

Example #1: Having Skill 2 and Talent Rank 1
would allow you to add 1-3 damage at the cost of 1-3 Strain 
factoring Lucky Strike in would be +8 for 3 strain + story point

Example #2: Having Skill 5 and Talent Rank 3 
would allow you to add 1-8 damage at the cost of 1-8 Strain
factoring Lucky Strike in would be +13 for 8 strain + story point

the strain cost may become prohibitive after a some rounds

 

Deadly Accuracy (Version #2)
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
After making a successful combat check with that skill you may suffer 
(not more than your ranks in that skill) strain to add damage to to one hit of the attack.
The damage added is equal to the amount of strain suffered.

simple and easy: exchange strain for more damage capped at +5 (with Lucky Strike +10)

 

Deadly Accuracy (Version #3)
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
Once per encounter after making a successful combat check with that skill, you may 
add damage to one hit of the attack equal to the Ranks of the skill.
 

at S5 that would be a +5 damage, once per Encounter  
stacking with Lucky Strike for a total of +10 damage

 

Deadly Accuracy (Version #4)
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
Once per encounter per Rank after making a successful combat check with that skill, you may 
add damage to one hit of the attack equal to the Ranks of the skill.
 

at S5 + R5 that would be a +5 damage, five times per Encounter 
stacking with Lucky Strike for a total of +10 damage

 

Deadly Accuracy (Version #5)
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: Yes
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
Once per encounter after making a successful combat check with that skill, you may 
add damage to one hit of the attack equal to the Ranks of the skill plus the Ranks of the Talent.
 

at S5 + R5 that would be a +10 damage, once per Encounter 
stacking with Lucky Strike for a total of +15 damage

 

Deadly Accuracy (Version #6, based on Swordbreaker)
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
After making a successful combat check with that skill, you may suffer 2 Strain to 
add damage to one hit of the attack equal to the Ranks of the Skill.
 

at S5 that would be a +5 damage, for 2 Strain 
stacking with Lucky Strike for a total of +10 damage

 

needs some playtesting tho ... but i would prefer either #1 or #5 since it is called "deadly"

but there is some feeling that #6 would the one most Genesys-Like.

Edited by Terefang

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Personally I like #2 & #3 ? but I think that encapsulates the entire Talents Expanded project, different settings and different groups have different needs. In a perfect world we would be able to produce three versions of every complex talent in order for groups to pick the right one. Ultimately though we just pick an option that’s on the less powerful side and assume groups will change things if they need to.

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12 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Personally I like #2 & #3 ? but I think that encapsulates the entire Talents Expanded project, different settings and different groups have different needs. In a perfect world we would be able to produce three versions of every complex talent in order for groups to pick the right one. Ultimately though we just pick an option that’s on the less powerful side and assume groups will change things if they need to.

yes, i also think that #2 or #3 are the most likely candidates for inclusion into the Talents Expanded project, without much playtesting

 

hmm ... that leads me to the question: 

if the unproblematic versions are un-ranked, should there be improved and supreme versions ?

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20 minutes ago, Terefang said:

if the unproblematic versions are un-ranked, should there be improved and supreme versions ?

 

Deadly Accuracy (Improved)
Tier: 4
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
Once per encounter after making a successful combat check with that skill, you may 
add damage to one hit of the attack equal to double the Ranks of the skill.

ie. +10 damage, +15 with Lucky Strike

Deadly Accuracy (Supreme)
Tier: 5
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
When acquired, choose 1 combat skill.
Once per encounter after making a successful combat check with that skill, you may 
add damage to one hit of the attack equal to triple the Ranks of the skill.

ie. +15 damage, +20 with Lucky Strike

 

hmm ... there is some bad aftertaste of looking a lot like D&D 4th Edition Feats, Strain Resource Management is IMHO more a Genesysism.

 

Deadly Accuracy (Improved)
Tier: 4
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Prerequisite: Deadly Accuracy

After making a successful combat check with that skill you may suffer (not more than twice your ranks in that skill) strain to add damage to to one hit of the attack.
The damage added is equal to the amount of strain suffered.

ie. +10 damage, +15 with Lucky Strike -> for 10 Strain and T2+T4 Talents

Deadly Accuracy (Supreme)
Tier: 5
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Prerequisite: Deadly Accuracy (Improved)

After making a successful combat check with that skill you may suffer (not more than triple your ranks in that skill) strain to add damage to to one hit of the attack.
The damage added is equal to twice the amount of strain suffered.

ie. +15 damage, +20 with Lucky Strike -> for 15 Strain and T2+T4+T5 Talents

 

... any thoughts ?

Edited by Terefang

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