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TheSapient

Genesys Talents Expanded

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17 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

Free up your hand, but also as a basis for the improved and supreme version.  And flavor.

I did immediately think of a spell book with legs running around chittering at the wizard, her yelling at it to stay put so she can read it “What did you do with my fireball Spell? ... You lost it!!”

i could see a lot of fun explaining of dic results from it.

out of interest I haven’t seen a Talent that removes setback from magic checks, except perhaps Brace. Is there one?

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16 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

How about

Militia Training - Tier 2 - Ranked: No -Activation Passive

Discipline, Melee (Heavy), and Survival are now career skills for your character.

We could do a bunch of “background talents” with three skill each.

Criminal: t2

Streetwise, Melee Light, Skulduggery 

And such

 

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3 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I did immediately think of a spell book with legs running around chittering at the wizard, her yelling at it to stay put so she can read it “What did you do with my fireball Spell? ... You lost it!!”

i could see a lot of fun explaining of dic results from it.

out of interest I haven’t seen a Talent that removes setback from magic checks, except perhaps Brace. Is there one?

Isn't one.  I started to write one, but then I started thinking about how you take setback when trying to cast spells while bound or gagged and now I don't think there should be general setback removal when casting.

However, maybe we should have Silent Spell and/or Still Spell that removes setback specifically for those times?

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5 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I did immediately think of a spell book with legs running around chittering at the wizard, her yelling at it to stay put so she can read it “What did you do with my fireball Spell? ... You lost it!!”

i could see a lot of fun explaining of dic results from it.

out of interest I haven’t seen a Talent that removes setback from magic checks, except perhaps Brace. Is there one?

I'm stealing this idea! 

Genesys has set back for things like being gagged or hands bound so maybe

Silent Spell: t1 ranked no passive: Remove set back for not being able to speak when casting

 

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Just now, ESP77 said:

I'm stealing this idea! 

Genesys has set back for things like being gagged or hands bound so maybe

Silent Spell: t1 ranked no passive: Remove set back for not being able to speak when casting

 

We have been spending too much time talking about talents.  We now have the same brain.

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21 hours ago, saethone said:

Vision of the Future probably needs to be re-written,  as it is, it doesn't mention that it's for a Magic skill check (its only implied through the "improved spell" line, and it doesn't mention if the caster has to roll the extra difficulty after adding the effect or if its free, and if the spell is still able to be cast without the new effect in the case where the additional purple die would cause a failure with the effect.

 

How do you feel about this:

Once per session, after successfully casting a spell, you may spend ^^ or TRIUMPH to add one additional effect to the cast spell, which would normally would have had increased the difficulty by 1.

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I’m yet to get the actual core book :o, Christmas is taking too long to arrive! But I wanted to ask a question, after you purchase a Tier 5 copy of a Ranked Talent are you able to purchase it again at tier 5? Or is that the limit, only one at each tier and no more?

As an example can you purchase Toughened tier 1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5? Or are you stopped after 5 ranks? (Obviously the usual limits of the pyramid apply)

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3 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I’m yet to get the actual core book :o, Christmas is taking too long to arrive! But I wanted to ask a question, after you purchase a Tier 5 copy of a Ranked Talent are you able to purchase it again at tier 5? Or is that the limit, only one at each tier and no more?

As an example can you purchase Toughened tier 1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5? Or are you stopped after 5 ranks? (Obviously the usual limits of the pyramid apply)

You can continue to purchase ranked talents at tier 5, as many times as you want.

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2 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Also Hindering Shot, that’s going to be a significantly more powerful talent now that movement is basically automatic, it’s kind of like an infinite Burn quality.

Either the time it lasts should be reduced, the tier changed to 5, or the Damage be modified in some way

How about making it ranked, with number of turns = ranks?

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16 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Why is Heavy Hitter a Tier  3 Talent? In the Star Wars system it requires 175xp to reach it! I would think it should definitely be Tier 5 but I could be missing something obvious.

Tier 5 is really reserved for things that are uber powerful or you don’t want the characters to have very often.

Heavy Hitter lets you ignore soak on one attack  once per session.

I think 3 is appropriate.

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2 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

How about making it ranked, with number of turns = ranks?

Seems decent. That could even reduce the Tier to 2 since it really limits its use. 10xp for 1 Rank seems right, 25 for 2 turns and 45 for 3 turns, most wont spend the extra 25 to make it 4 turns. Otherwise it’s 15 for 1, 35 for 2, 60 for 3.

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1 minute ago, ESP77 said:

Tier 5 is really reserved for things that are uber powerful or you don’t want the characters to have very often.

Heavy Hitter lets you ignore soak on one attack  once per session.

I think 3 is appropriate.

Not just Soak, it lets you ignore a point of vehicle Armour! It’s what can make the difference between damaging a vehicle and not, or being able to Crit or not, it also works on Autofire Weapons attacks :o

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Just now, Richardbuxton said:

Not just Soak, it lets you ignore a point of vehicle Armour! It’s what can make the difference between damaging a vehicle and not, or being able to Crit or not, it also works on Autofire Weapons attacks :o

Hadn’t thought of that.  Good point

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5 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Tumble seems to be a tad powerful for a tier 1, it breaks a major component of the game for very little cost. Either it should require a Story Point to be flipped or it should be at least Tier 3.

Engaging and disengaging is a very important mechanic that is very rarely broken, and only by much higher tier talents in the Star Wars system.

Can you speak more about this?  Isn't think just allowing a maneuver being done as an incidental under a specific circumstance?

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(Edit: this came off a little forward or aggressive, I apologise as that wasn’t intentional)

 

Anything that’s an incidental can also be considered part of an action, the circumstances where engaging or disengaging can happen without the specific Engage/disengage manoeuvre are:

Djem So Deflection. Tier 4, requires already using Reflect (3 Strain) and a Destiny point flip 

Preemptive Avoidance: Tier 2-4, requires a destiny point flip

Hawk Bat Swoop: Tier 4 (no direct path), requires a Force Point to be spent to engage from Short, that could include Strain and a Dark Side and Destiny, also reduces the Advantages on the check, only for engaging a target.

Field Commander: Tier 2-3, requires someone else to burn an action and costs you a Strain.

Draw Closer: Tier 4, brings the target to you, only for engaging, Requires Force Points with their potential costs, reduces possible success.

 

Of that limited list all exclusively exist in Force and Destiny except Field Commander. The cheapest is a Tier 2 option and they are far more expensive in player resources during the game than your 2 Strain option.

 

There are plenty of Talents that turn manoeuvres into incidentals, but engaging and more important disengaging is very very limited. Three examples exist of exactly what you’re proposing, that’s three examples of Preemptive Avoidance. They cost 15, 30 and 50 xp each. They also all require a Destiny point flip which is a far far more valuable resource than 2 Strain, especially for a Force User who relies so much on them to use half of the Force.

 

Edit:

I should add that Preemptive Avoidance is an out of turn thing, so that does make it a bit better than your option which requires you to be acting on your initiative.

Edited by Richardbuxton

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5 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

(Edit: this came off a little forward or aggressive, I apologise as that wasn’t intentional)

 

Anything that’s an incidental can also be considered part of an action, the circumstances where engaging or disengaging can happen without the specific Engage/disengage manoeuvre are:

Djem So Deflection. Tier 4, requires already using Reflect (3 Strain) and a Destiny point flip 

Preemptive Avoidance: Tier 2-4, requires a destiny point flip

Hawk Bat Swoop: Tier 4 (no direct path), requires a Force Point to be spent to engage from Short, that could include Strain and a Dark Side and Destiny, also reduces the Advantages on the check, only for engaging a target.

Field Commander: Tier 2-3, requires someone else to burn an action and costs you a Strain.

Draw Closer: Tier 4, brings the target to you, only for engaging, Requires Force Points with their potential costs, reduces possible success.

 

Of that limited list all exclusively exist in Force and Destiny except Field Commander. The cheapest is a Tier 2 option and they are far more expensive in player resources during the game than your 2 Strain option.

 

There are plenty of Talents that turn manoeuvres into incidentals, but engaging and more important disengaging is very very limited. Three examples exist of exactly what you’re proposing, that’s three examples of Preemptive Avoidance. They cost 15, 30 and 50 xp each. They also all require a Destiny point flip which is a far far more valuable resource than 2 Strain, especially for a Force User who relies so much on them to use half of the Force.

 

Edit:

I should add that Preemptive Avoidance is an out of turn thing, so that does make it a bit better than your option which requires you to be acting on your initiative.

Tier 4 is for talents that govern action economy.  We can put Tumble there.

 Tumble was from the Gencon pregens and originally ranked by me when I was mistakenly thinking those characters must have been built “by the rules”.  I have been disillusioned of said opinion since then ?

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13 minutes ago, ESP77 said:

Tier 4 is for talents that govern action economy.  We can put Tumble there.

 Tumble was from the Gencon pregens and originally ranked by me when I was mistakenly thinking those characters must have been built “by the rules”.  I have been disillusioned of said opinion since then ?

Most of the pre gen talents do look to be done in order and correctly, perhaps we will see tumble make an official appearance at tier 1. To me that seems like a far too awesome ability though 

Edited by Richardbuxton

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1 hour ago, Richardbuxton said:

Most of the pre gen talents do look to be done in order and correctly, perhaps we will see tumble make an official appearance at tier 1. To me that seems like a far too awesome ability though 

The more input the better.  We're happy for any more ideas, corrections, etc.

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3 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

 

Double post---But I will use it for a different comment.

I vote to put Tumble at 3, based on the great examples that Richardbuxton provided, and the Genesys info from ESP77.  It does affect the action economy, but is also limited to disengagement and only with multiple engaged enemies.  

Edited by TheSapient

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Seeking input on these:

Distracting Behavior:  Make a Distracting Behavior maneuver and suffer strain no greater than ranks in Cunning. Until the beginning of next turn, equal number of NPC's suffer THREAT on checks. Range increases with additional ranks.

Distracting Behavior (Improved) : Your character must have purchased the Distracting Behavior talent to benefit from this talent. The Distracting Behavior maneuver inflicts 2 THEAT on NPC's checks when NPC's target character's allies.

Tiers 4 and 5? 

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I think 3-4 is a bit better. Any automatic result is nice, but 1 threat does not always swing a dice result overmuch. Looking at the charts, 1 threat is either 1 strain or disabling the effect of a maneuver; or, it cancels an advantage, which may prevent a critical injury or triggering a quality.

As for the improved version, 2 threat is definitely more valuable, but again, not exactly reliable in every situation. Is it valuable enough to compete with Dedication? Or Indomitable, which prevents you from being incapacitated, or Ruinous Repartee which deals strain damage and heals your own strain damage?

The overall value of Distracting Behavior is how wide the range is, but that takes even more XP investment. Putting it too high tier makes it unappealing because the overall buy-in for it to be effective is really, really high.

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Thanks.  Those are good points.

Unless we get more comments, complaints, or new talent submissions soon, I think we will release Version 1.0 by the end of the weekend.  However, I'd much rather fix anything that needs to be fixed, so if anyone sees anything that is really bad, please say so!

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