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VarniusEisen

Gun bunny problems

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Hi guys,

I have a slight problem in the form of an imperial guard gun bunny who insists on carrying around the following:

Exitus rifle, Exitus pistol, bolt pistol, bolter w/ underslung grenade launcher, sawn off shotgun, and about 10 turns worth of ammo for everything.

Before any of you go off on a rant about how he shouldn't have the Exitus gear, I'm not some noob GM  with no clue about the rules but my group likes high powered gear and high powered enemies.

Anyway, getting back to the point, using encumberance just doesn't seem to cut it seeing as he has a higher than average STR & T. The players reasoning behind carrying a small arsenal is that he wants to be prepared for any situation.

How would you, as a GM, deal with him? I've got a few ideas but i'm also looking for some outside inspiration.

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A gun caddy. It is silly to walk around with such an arsenal but having a servants with you who has a trolly full of weapons is totally acceptable and stylish.

"Jeeves, hand me the grenade launcher please"

"Aha, the one loaded with krak grenades madam?"

"Yes please, that armor seems to bounce of my bolter shells and I need something with a bit more power."

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Tell him that he can carry it all only if he can make a suitable diagram of where he carries it all.  If he can make a convincing diagram, then I reckon he's within his rights to do such barring encomberance. 

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VarniusEisen said:

Before any of you go off on a rant about how he shouldn't have the Exitus gear, I'm not some noob GM  with no clue about the rules but my group likes high powered gear and high powered enemies.

Well, may I then rant about how you first allow your players to make a mess and that afterwards you rant about the mess they made?  gran_risa.gifaplauso.gif

 

Anyway way,  since you can´t keep him from doeing so since you allowed him to do so:

- Gravers diagramm-idea is very nice. Enforce him to have clearly readable tabel for all of his ammo to be shown on your request  ["Harrasment"]
- Enforce the Encumbrance rules
- Give him a feisty penalty for everything incorporating movement of any kind (he is carrying more then two "long weapons", right?)

Most important of all, give his RT and Seneschall penealties on social test in occasion where it is simply not fitting to come accompanied by a thug who would be overarmed even if he would be going to !WAR!.

Besides that, there might be nothing you can do but except that you are resting the way you bedded yourself....

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You may also want to try creating situations where he has no choice but to take only 1 or 2 of those aforementioned pieces of gear. Small tunnels/crawlspaces work wonders as well as environments where taking that many weapons would be a social faux pas, such as having to talk to the planetary governor.

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Don't necessarily see it as a problem, just work out some interesting encounters which will test the abilities.

Swarms of weak creatures can be fun, wave after wave of gretchin are pretty much designed for this sort of fun.

Alternatively something that really, really calls for the big guns. I'm thinking a T-rex here.

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Gregorius21778 said:

VarniusEisen said:

Before any of you go off on a rant about how he shouldn't have the Exitus gear, I'm not some noob GM  with no clue about the rules but my group likes high powered gear and high powered enemies.

 

Well, may I then rant about how you first allow your players to make a mess and that afterwards you rant about the mess they made?  gran_risa.gifaplauso.gif

 

I'm not ranting about the mess he's made because he hasn't made one and neither have I. He just insists he carries everything all the time. It's nothing I can't handle, I was just curious about how other would deal with it.

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Personally I'd just

 

1)Say no

2)Have every NPC have him as their primary target.

3)Have them fail a few mission because he alerted everyone and their uncle.  Have the local pdf/guard/whatever shadow the PCs every where.

4)Have him unable to be a part of social situations.

 

If the PC really pushes back.  Then start having NPCs show up like wise armed.  If the PCs don't treat the NPCs in the same way the PCs expects to be treated then the PC is proven to be wrong.  For example a NPC comes on board the ship armed like the PC for a meeting....

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<quote>I was just curious about how other would deal with it.</quote>

Ah. In which case I offer the following anecdote:

My entire crew have taken to wearing their "ceremonial" carapace armour to all occasions. The armour is best quality and after an off-hand ruling that best quality was so well decorated and venerable that it was acceptable in most of the Imperium (which was funny at the beginning of the campaign) they have been to numerous state banquets, interstellar casinos and trade summits packing their best quality armour and weapons (I'm changing the ruling next campaign).

In their defence, such dinners tend to be ambushes in disguise more often than not (or at least the ones which are role-played out). At one such dinner I decided the antagonist (a petty drug dealer) would instantly realise the futility of a full-on assault and went for a more subtle approach. He poisoned their cutlery. I went into agonising detail describing the room (usual for many of my ambush-dinners), describing the people in the room (ditto), describing the food (not unknown) and the poison sniffers passed over the communal food bowls (standard since the PCs demanded it in the first session). And then  when I asked if they were eating and they all declared yes I started to make poison checks.

I decided the drug dealer had bribed the serving staff to substitute the cutlery with a set that had microscopic holes drilled in it and then dipped in poison. It very nearly took out the Arch-Militant that session despite his carapace armour.

After this the PCs started to bring their own cutlery to meals.

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I like some of the suggestions here - and could I add:

Perhaps he needs to find a special weapon with the capabilities of all of them - but add in that the electromagnetic coil tends to fuse the ammo of other weapons in close proximity...

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I would give the PC modifications to Initiative, sneaking, jumping, climbing and all other manouvrers where all the bulky equipment would be an disadvantage.

Maybe you could create adventures where fighting aren't a good alternative. Let the NPC:s be so powerful that an stright on attack would be suicidal (regardlessly of the PC:s equipment). In a situation where sneaking and diplomacy are preferred the PC would get something to consider for future missions.

 

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Point out the bolter is the size of his torso (literally), and the Exitus rifle is probably longer than he is tall. Ask if he wants his character to be able to use both hands for anything, and then point out that it's physically impossible to sling both of them without them getting in the way...

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The way I see it, you could handle this many different ways. The simplest, and the one I would try first, being to simply ask the player to stop being ridiculous and limit himself to an appropriate amount of gear.

However, since it seems to fit the topic at hand, I thought I'd share my house rules for weapons, which I modified from some discussion on the DH forums.

The idea is that every person has five 'slots' for carrying weapons. More could be carried in a backpack or the like, but that is the most that would be readily accessible in a half action. Each weapon would take a certain number of slots to carry:

Big Stuff (3 Slots)
-Two Handed Melee Weapons
-Heavy Weapons

Normal Stuff (2 Slots)
-One Handed Melee Weapons
-Basic Weapons

Small Stuff (1 Slot)
-Pistols
-Grenade Belt (2-6)

Tiny (First one free, 1 slot after that)
-Knives, Brass Knuckles, Etc.
-1 Grenade

(Also, the compact quality reduces the Slot size by 1)

 

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Try cursing him. In gameplay terms, naturally demonio.gif

I.e., PC's warlike ways and attitude have earned him the attention of some warp entity, who bestowed the Obliterati virus upon him. Make it an "unknown sickness" at first. As the adventures continue, describe in great detail how the virus gnaws upon PC's body and soul, slowly corrupting him into a Chaos abomination.

Once PC gets desperate enough, offer him salvation through "renouncing thy warlike nature" (read: no more than a single gun at a time, and only shooting in self-defense).

Alternatively, PC's complete transformation into an obliterator would effectively solve the problem of packing a whole battery of weapons.

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To be honest my solution would be to have the slings/triggers get caught on things slowing him down (or if he's running knocking him off his feet), have the weapons get damaged (as they bash into things) and if he ever fails a jump test have him be tangled up in ammo belts and slings taking him longer to sort himself out.

 

After he's almost died because of these things happening when the big bad is chaseing them I think they'd eventually give up.

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       One extra trick for the "diagram" method I would add is a "break factor". With that much gear the characters body is literally covered. Now what do you think will happen if some enemy starts shooting at him? Some of the hits are bound to hit his arsenal. For each hit against his torso, roll a die and on, say, 7+ the shot hits a pice of gear. Too bad about that bolter gui%C3%B1o.gif. If you are feeling lenient, you can say that the character gains +1 AP against the hit.   

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Just tell him to stuff it all in an arms coffer. My group's arch-militant loves the thought of this toteable gun case. Course there is time required to get in it. In combat possible situations our arch-militant will be carrying his bolt gun, with his sword on his back and a pair of bolt pistols on his hips/thighs. Anything more than that and I'm gonna call him on it. :) 

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I had a similar problem with our DH groups Assassin, he had decided to play as a sniper/hitman.

At one point he was carrying; a hunting rifle (scoped w. silencer), a Voss anti-material rifle (a Barrat-light-50 heavy sniper of my creation), 2 autopistols (with red-dots and duplex mags), 2 web-pistols (with red-dots and duplex mags), and a hand-cannon with a silencer and red-dot.

In short he was a walking armoury, but due to a high S & T he was (just) able to carry it all and his comm (he only had an armoured bodyglove from protection). Needs less to say that will all of that and ammo he was a little over the top. I warned him a few times that he was taking the micky, but he pursisted. So during a despirate escape (by gun-cutter) I decided that the scripted crash/survive in the steaming jungle was going to have additional effects. (This was written after ALL of my PC decided not to "waste the exp on survival because we will never need it" - don't say things like that near a GM, its a red rag). The effect was that as they had bailed out of the guncutter various pieces of PC kit had been spread across the jungle floor, and they could hear the heavly armed enemy search parties coming for them. THe Assassin in question was determined to find all his shinies, but the rest of the group talked him out of it after he had found one or two simple because he was putting them all at risk because it took so long.

In the end peer preasure fixed this in my group and they now rarely carry more than a primary and a backup.

just my thoughts.

Surak

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State that he may only carry one long gun, a pair of pistols, and a couple melee weapons, like a sword and knife. If he has attendants, have it take some time for the guns to change hands. At least one turn each way. So him changing guns with an attendant, say from boltgun to existus rifle, would take two turns. If it is combat, make him make a test, and make the attendant make a test. 

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VarniusEisen said:

Hi guys,

I have a slight problem in the form of an imperial guard gun bunny who insists on carrying around the following:

Exitus rifle, Exitus pistol, bolt pistol, bolter w/ underslung grenade launcher, sawn off shotgun, and about 10 turns worth of ammo for everything.

Before any of you go off on a rant about how he shouldn't have the Exitus gear, I'm not some noob GM  with no clue about the rules but my group likes high powered gear and high powered enemies.

Anyway, getting back to the point, using encumberance just doesn't seem to cut it seeing as he has a higher than average STR & T. The players reasoning behind carrying a small arsenal is that he wants to be prepared for any situation.

How would you, as a GM, deal with him? I've got a few ideas but i'm also looking for some outside inspiration.

Ok, so a three-section rig on his back for the longarms, a pistol on each hip and a bunch of ammo belts. He's Sly Stalone as Rambo... but since that character is actually in the Codex: Imperial Guard... where's the problem.

Obviously, he can't walk down the street without having a squad of local enforcers asking to see his mercenaries permit and/or generally following him around. Forget going to the Baroness's ball or into any place that has anything resembling security. Oh, and don't forget the random gangers and other cocky idiots either throwing down or ambushing him for a chance at the arsenal. But again... where's the problem. demonio.gif

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@Surak

At one point he was carrying; a hunting rifle (scoped w. silencer), a Voss anti-material rifle (a Barrat-light-50 heavy sniper of my creation), 2 autopistols (with red-dots and duplex mags), 2 web-pistols (with red-dots and duplex mags), and a hand-cannon with a silencer and red-dot.

So... where's the problem? Hunting rifle and AM rifle strapped to the back, possibly partially disassembled, autopistols strapped to the thigs, webpistols on the lower thigs and hand cannon across the lower back.

 

@Lucius

Obviously, he can't walk down the street without having a squad of local enforcers asking to see his mercenaries permit and/or generally following him around. Forget going to the Baroness's ball or into any place that has anything resembling security. Oh, and don't forget the random gangers and other cocky idiots either throwing down or ambushing him for a chance at the arsenal. But again... where's the problem.

Apart from the Baroness' ball (where he should be able to get away with a bolt pistol at least. After all, he likely is the security for his Rogue Trader), most other situations shouldn't present that much of a problem. RT Arch-Militants are veterans and they're likely known. Anyone trying to take them from his cold, dead hands is either very experienced (in which case he'd be even more of a problem if the Militant wasn't as well-armed since he's likely not just after the guns) or very naive (in which case they're pretty dead, considering the defensive gear the AM will likely be packing as well).

Rogue Trader is not Dark Heresy.

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