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Magnus Grendel

Triple Omega Specialists

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After the fashion of triple T-70s:

  • Omega Specialist x 3
    • Spec Ops Training
    • Debris Gambit or Intensity
    • Fire Control System
    • Advanced Optics
    • Lightweight Frame

I'm not sure whether Debris Gambit or Intensity is the better plan. Intensity lets you barrel roll and still get an evade, but will require a token to 'refresh' it if you spend said token. Debris Gambit by comparison is available turn-on-turn, but only in certain parts of the map. On the other hand, there is the theoretical possibility of focus/evade/evade which combined with Lightweight Frame must make for a pretty unappealing target. Either way, Evade/Focus/Lightweight Frame puts the TIE/sf at within a hair of TIE/x7 toughness, which is no bad thing.

Alternatively, dropping to Zeta Specialists (and hence losing the elite talents) open enough points to permit you to equip Harpoon Missiles:

  • Zeta Specialist x 3
    • Spec Ops Training
    • Fire Control System
    • Harpoon Missiles
    • Advanced Optics
    • Lightweight Frame

Finally, using Targeting Synchroniser and Fire Control to give you a rather nice 'targeting web' which should let you maintain a live target lock on any and every opponent - the problem with Fire Control is always that it only works for your second and subsequent shots, and the more 'subsequent shots' it's taking to kill a target, the worse the game is going for you.

  • Zeta Specialist x 3
    • Spec Ops Training
    • Fire Control System
    • Cruise Missiles or Ion Pulse Missiles
    • Targeting Synchroniser
    • Lightweight Frame

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I've been having a lot of fun with Accuracy Corrector SFs lately.  I've tried using Sensor Cluster, but Debris Gambit might be stronger (potential two tokens).  A DG/AccC/LWF Omega comes in at 32 points, which would leave 4 spare in the list, which is what it would cost to upgrade one to Quickdraw.

Damage will be consistent, but there's something really tempting about getting spike damage capacity from missiles.  Ion Pulse, which would allow your list to collapse on a R1 target with 4-dice Focus/TL attacks seems really fun.

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Of the 3 ideas, I think the 1st and 3rd are worth exploring.  While harpoons are an OP missile (due to obvious power creep), I don't think that particular build takes good enough advantage of them to make the list potent (due mainly to not being able to fire them on the opening turn of shooting).

For the Omega Specialists though, I would lean towards intensity.  The problem with Debris Gambit, is that you need all of your ships to get the 2 evades.  If even one ship ends up being too far to take the double evade, then your opponent just shoots that ship, making your EPT less useful (because it won't be triggering early on---you'll still get use out of it late game, though, but you will have lost one or two ships by that point...)

The reason I like the 3rd list better than the 2nd is the targeting synch.  You not only have the potential to fire your missiles in the opening engagement, but even without the missiles, you are almost always generating 3 hits thanks to the near constant full mods on shots.

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12 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

For the Omega Specialists though, I would lean towards intensity.  The problem with Debris Gambit, is that you need all of your ships to get the 2 evades.  If even one ship ends up being too far to take the double evade, then your opponent just shoots that ship, making your EPT less useful (because it won't be triggering early on---you'll still get use out of it late game, though, but you will have lost one or two ships by that point...)

Well, even getting one evade is nice, but the point is a fair one; because the same is true one 'notch' down - you might find one ship unable to 'evade' at all and that ship will probably take the bulk of the punishment as a result. It's an odd situation that you can be unable to do anything much with your action - you have a focus from advanced optics and a target lock from fire control system....

It's a balancing act; Debris Gambit will hopefully let you evade every turn (at a cost of your action) but may be unavailable on the one turn you really wish you had it, whilst Intensity is guaranteed to let you evade on the turn you need to, at a cost of spending a turn or two 'recovering' by trying to flip intensity back and put a focus token back on advanced optics.

I'm broadly leaning to intensity, too. More for the flexibility - don't underestimate the advantage that can be gained by a TIE/sf being able to barrel roll and still have a focus token, even if it doesn't carry one in advanced optics at the start of the turn.

21 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I've been having a lot of fun with Accuracy Corrector SFs lately.  I've tried using Sensor Cluster, but Debris Gambit might be stronger (potential two tokens).  A DG/AccC/LWF Omega comes in at 32 points, which would leave 4 spare in the list, which is what it would cost to upgrade one to Quickdraw.

Damage will be consistent, but there's something really tempting about getting spike damage capacity from missiles.  Ion Pulse, which would allow your list to collapse on a R1 target with 4-dice Focus/TL attacks seems really fun.

I've wondered about accuracy corrector, but it seems like the sort of thing more worth it in bigger games or if you know you're fighting swarms; to really gain traction over just a focused primary shot, you really want to be firing out of both arcs simultaneously.

Pairing with Ion Pulse Missiles sounds like a nice idea, because heavily tazering a large ship allows for the possibility of a "sixgun" position, where you park a TIE/sf with both front and rear arcs in a position to fire on the same target at range 1.

22 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

The reason I like the 3rd list better than the 2nd is the targeting synch.  You not only have the potential to fire your missiles in the opening engagement, but even without the missiles, you are almost always generating 3 hits thanks to the near constant full mods on shots.

Agreed. The 'targeting web' just seems like a rather cool little ability of anything which can carry both FCS and TS. In theory you could drop an Upsilon Shuttle into the squad in place of the missiles and the third /sf, which might work rather well too.

  • Lieutenant Dormitz
    • Fire Control System
    • Weapons Engineer
    • Intelligence Agent
    • Targeting Synchroniser
  • Zeta Specialist x 2
    • Spec Ops Training
    • Fire Control System
    • Targeting Synchroniser
    • Lightweight Frame

 

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I've found lollygagging behind a wall of obstacles and waiting for your opponents to come through to get you works well for the s/f. You have to be fairly confident in your timing ability, but this might work great with Debris Gambit builds.

Edit: Perhaps two Omega s/f teamed with Swarm leader "Blackout" might perform well as a hammer/scalpel combination?

 

Edited by Alekzanter
Lightbulb!

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48 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I've wondered about accuracy corrector, but it seems like the sort of thing more worth it in bigger games or if you know you're fighting swarms; to really gain traction over just a focused primary shot, you really want to be firing out of both arcs simultaneously

The damage does pretty well statistically, if you're at longer ranges and not using tokens for offense.

3-dice FCS: 1 shot unmodified (1.5), 1 shot with TL (2.25) = average 1.875 per shot over two shots

3-dice AccC: average 2.125 per shot (3 hits on about 1/8th of your shots)

Once you start using tokens offensively and start getting into range 1, the math doesn't work out as well for AccC.  That's also average damage, and TL/FCS will have both bigger spike potential, and bigger wiff potential.  The flip side is AccC doesn't require you to keep the same target (target switching is often bad, but sometimes necessary), and that you might be able to toss out a few double-shots here and there.  My one SF got one double-shot yesterday against a Kylo/PTL OS-1 Rho/Omega Leader list.

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Targeting synch on SFs is great. I ran three, all with synch, for quite a bit and it hits hard, getting full mod shots on any ship that lands in your arcs. Weakness of fcs is not being able to shoot the same ship, a big weakness for low PS ships like Omegas. Target synch takes care of that problem.

I like the idea of maybe 1 or two wiith harpoons, and the other being omega with DTF to help the missile carriers survive so they dont get ps killed

Edited by wurms

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Why go all generic?

I’ve had fun with variants of this list:

SFx3 (100)

•"Quickdraw" (37) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

•"Backdraft" (36) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Harpoon Missiles (4), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Zeta Specialist (27) - TIE/SF Fighter
Fire Control System (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

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I remember people talking about 4 TIE/sf - there are quite a few 2-point upgrades you can strap to a zeta specialist and get 4 in a squad:

  • Fire Control System
  • Collision Detector/Lightweight Frame
  • Collision Detector/Advanced Optics
  • Collision Detector/Pattern Analyser

Any preferences or experience? My default previously was fire control, but I'm wondering if Advanced Optics might not be a good idea

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I’ve been playing around with mine and looking into things like Advanced Sensors with an EPT like crackshot it even Adrenaline Rush. AR on the SF is really nice and can be held for the right time. Advanced sensors is going to allow for better decisions and start the sloop guessing game if you take your focus first before a maneuver as practice even if you have no intention of doing so. Kind of dirty actually, they manure guessing a block at sloop spot Y you do Manuver z and just make them look silly. The AO like the Generics is wonderful action economy.

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I have been trying out triple tie/sf as well. I feel like I have settled on one of two lists

List A:

TIE/sf Fighter: Omega Specialist (25)
Expertise (4)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
TIE/sf Fighter: Omega Specialist (25)
Expertise (4)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
TIE/sf Fighter: Omega Specialist (25)
Expertise (4)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 99p. --

 

List B:

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)
Expertise (4)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
Expertise (4)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
TIE/sf Fighter: Zeta Specialist (23)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 99p. --

 

Both lists utilize Expertise in place of the suggested intensity/debris gambit and Advanced Optics. I feel like expertise allows you to use your focus token (presumably acquired via focus action) on defense like an evade token. However, I feel like expertise will allow for more scenarios where you both have a modified attack and modified defense than intensity/debris gambit would provide. Additionally, Expertise could occasionally allow for the modification of an attack out of both the front and rear arc, if such a situation was to present itself (admittedly this would be rare).

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So I flew this today,

Quickdraw, Adrenaline Rush, Title, FCS, AO, LWF

Omega Specialist: AR, Title, HWCS, LWF, FCS

Omega Specialist: AR, Title, Adv Sens, AO, LWF

I’m going to sound like a broken record but Adrenaline Rush on the SF is fantastic. Took on Fenn Rau, Talonbane and Tweek. I managed to take all 3 down while only losing QD, and 2 shields off one of the Specialist. 

@Magnus Grendel to your original post, for your first list. Honestly, I am not sure Intensity would be that much better than Debris Gambit. Perhaps if you don’t get any type of action I could see it otherwise no. I stayed around a small cluster of Asteroids and was either effectively blocking, or forcing maneuvers to avoid rocks and with the SF multiple Arcs it gives you all kinds of advantages. So I was always having 1 if not 2 or in one case 3 asteroids within range 1. But you have to be willing to stay in there and fight and make the fight be in the asteroids or around at least one. 

So I used the Specialist with the HWCS as a baseline for the other builds. For Quickdraw you saw where once you have your lock and the token, you really kind of want an EPT that allowed for a good useable action or you were just passing if you were not needing to Barrel roll. So a bit awkward though might be great to leverage Debris Gambit or even Expert Handling or any other EPT one sees fit and has room for that requires your action. It could also give credence for Squad Leader, on high PS ships.

Not sure how I feel about Advanced Optics and Advanced Sensors together, at least not on the SF. It really only came into play once in this matchup. Barrel Rolled rather than plow an Asteroid. Was nice, but not sure if it really made up for the lack of FCS or not. Only once did I need the AS to take a focus prior to a red maneuver, so I was using it for either target lock or just waiting like normal and picking up what I needed. So not a huge difference was made there. 

The Trio is in fact solid though that is for sure.

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I was wondering if anyone had any insight on what some good strategies were with the triple tie/sf. So far I have typically been flying in formation and trying to line up the initial engagement. I attempt to line it up so that afterwards I can just slow roll a 1 speed maneuver with the team and catch one of the opposing ships in all three of the rear arcs for unrequited shots. Then I turn around and repeat. Is this a reasonable way to fly them?

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No formation flying is grand and all but the last thing you want to do is joust. Your SF will pop like a T-65 if you do that. I had mine spread out a bit but still I. Range 2 for my HWCS to charge my AO initially. I wanted gaps and space so I could flank and then cut between my opponent breaking up formations and getting as many shots as possible. 

The Ability to fire Fore and Aft really should change your flying strategies. Better to take a 2 Dice rear arc with not being shot at then try to push for a 3 Dice Primary out the front and eat shots in return. It’s also okay to fly a bit erratic as the second arc can be forgiving and also creates bad maneuvering for opponents who are now guessing hard on where to go and where you will end up. 

Here is how I sum up the SF. TIE Fighter maneuvering. Xwing comparable stats. Large ship Threat area. The dial says It can do Fighter maneuvers but doesn’t like it.

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I love adore the concept of triple SF. I've had a few thoughts on them.

I always include the title (obviously), LWF, and Pattern Analyzer to guarantee actions.

Then I think you can either use Zetas with Accuracy Corrector and Prockets, for both an Alpha strike and reliable damage after (Accuracy Corrector having been justified above) (my favorite option) or FCS/Harpoons (which could benefit from TS instead of PA).

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