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The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

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2 hours ago, Collins said:

did anyone notice how the resistance was renamed half way through the film to 'the rebels'.

 

The biggest annoyance I have with the new trilogy is the history doesn't seem to make sense to me.Luke, Leia, Han and the alliance to restore the republic (rebels) won the galactic civil war at the end on ROTJ (yes, I know about the legends stuff and how a war never ends in one big battle but lets roll with it for now) and then suddenly all the winners find themselves inexplicably in the minority of the galaxy rather than the ones in power (i.e. government). If they were in government then how the **** did they miss the first order building so many super weapons and big mega massive turbo charged extra Killy star destroyers? their intelligence dept is incompetent at best or has too many tea breaks at worst with their motto being 'meh, I'm sure it will be fine...'. The Timothy Zahn books handled this twist in power with the thrawn series much better in my opinion and there was crazy stuff happening in them too.

That was my biggest problem, too.  As I said before I really enjoyed the movie overall, and I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to ignoring little details that might not make much sense, but the two new movies have done a really poor job at telling us what is going on in the galaxy at large.  I complained about this to a friend of mine, though, and he told me that it does do a better job of explaining it in the new novel canon (which I haven't read).  In case anybody is interested, from what I understand it goes something like this:

 

After the Empire was toppled the New Republic formed.  Fearing that another emperor would one day take over in the same way that Palpatine did, the New Replublic declared that they would no longer have a standing military.  That way even if someone did manage to seize power they wouldn't have a huge navy to rule over everyone like the emperor did.

Meanwhile the first order started building up it's strength somewhere out in the unknown regions.  Apparently some senators were working to funnel them cash and supplies, but in general I'm not really clear on how they got so powerful.  Back in the Republic Leia could see what was starting to happen and was worried about it.  She ran to become chancellor of the New Republic in order to try and stop the growing threat, but it came out that she was Vader's daughter which caused a political scandal and she lost the election.  She was still worried about the first order, though, so she and a few others secretly founded the resistance which is the small military force that we see in the movies.

With all that said, I wish that they'd put a little more of an explanation into the movies.  We don't need full-blown trade-dispute level like in the prequels, but a quick "hey, here's who's on these five planets that star-killer base is blowing up" would have been nice.

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Leia should have died when the bridge died, a good way to end her character, still achieves Ren's internal struggles for that plot line and gives a good send off to her. Then they missed another trick by not reshooting the light speed cruiser torpedo to have Purple Hair replace Leia as a potentially strong female lead in the army and have Leia do the whole self sacrifice thing. It also would have been a good send off for her rather than wasting an epic act on a nobody character. 

I actually like that she survived the initial attack (R.I.P. Ackbar) but I agree that given the real-world circumstances it would have probably been better if Leia had made the big sacrificial play.  With that said, the fact that we're all referring to Admiral Purple-Hair as "Admiral Purple-Hair" shows that she might not have had enough of an impact to move forward as a great choice as the new leader of the Rebellion.  To be honest I kind of like what they're doing with Poe here - he learned some big lessons in this movie and I think he's ready to be a leader.

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Yoda bit was handled well.

luke passing left me feeling sad, disappointed, somewhat empty but ultimately it was the right thing to do and I'm not sure how I could have done it better.

I enjoyed most of the humour, I feel maybe there were 2 jokes too many but other than that Poe's opening lines were spot on.

Yes, Yoda was fantastic!  He had the right mix of wisdom and humour, and it managed to push all of my nostalgia buttons.

I liked how Luke went out.  I've read a lot about people complaining about how it was dumb that he was so tired after his projection that he just died, but I don't even think that's really what happened.  To me it looked like he was tired, yeah, but that he chose to pass into a force ghost.  It completely fits with his character in the rest of the film - he knew that his time had passed, and from the first time we saw him he made it clear that he had come to the Jedi planet to die.  His character arc allowed him to develop a bit more faith in the next generation and in Rey in particular, but it didn't change his opinion that this wasn't his war to fight.  He's already passed on to Rey what he needed to about the Force, and with his last act - inspiring hope in the galaxy in a very light-side way - he's completely accomplished all that he needed to in his life.  He even had a chance to say goodbye to Leia and everyone.  He knew that his time was finished, and so passed on to the next phase on his own terms. 

Again, needless to say, I really loved how this movie handled Luke as a whole :)

And finally, regarding the humour, I agree with you completely here.  I thought the whole "on hold" thing at the beginning was really dumb, and there were a few other parts where I could remember thinking "I could have done without a joke in this otherwise serious scene" (unfortunately I don't remember any specifics).  But by and large I thought that most of it was really well done.

Edited by ManateeX
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2 hours ago, ManateeX said:

I actually like that she survived the initial attack (R.I.P. Ackbar) but I agree that given the real-world circumstances it would have probably been better if Leia had made the big sacrificial play.  With that said, the fact that we're all referring to Admiral Purple-Hair as "Admiral Purple-Hair" shows that she might not have had enough of an impact to move forward as a great choice as the new leader of the Rebellion.  To be honest I kind of like what they're doing with Poe here - he learned some big lessons in this movie and I think he's ready to be a leader.

Honestly, I wonder if in the pre-final draft of the script, it was Poe butting heads with Leia the whole time. And there might have been some concern (from not just Oscar Issacs) that Poe's mutiny against Leia would have turned the audience against Poe. So instead, Leia gets spaced and Holdo steps in. Now the audience has no problem siding with Poe versus this new person who can't be a decent strategist since she wears a nice dress, has purple hair and won't tell Poe the plan (which, honestly, was a lame way to amplify the friction between the two).

Laura Dern is such a great actress. That moment where she and Carrie Fisher have before Leia boards the transport was so jam-packed with character.

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Sometimes I think, if some of us would see the OT for the first time today, they would post, how bad it is.

Actually, I'm old enough to remember those guys, that loved STAR WARS (called episode 4 nowadays), but really hated those sequels (episode 5 and 6). Such bad movies, that they shouldn't be called Star wars at all: Episode 5, when Han leaves the Falcon inside an Astroid with just a breathing mask on, that is so unrealistic. And Leia in that slave outfit is so misogynistic. And the godfather being played by a space slug is so racistic towards Italians. And those teddy bears that were able to beat those elite Stormtroopers (Ewoks) ...

Edited by DerBaer

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4 hours ago, ManateeX said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

After the Empire was toppled the New Republic formed.  Fearing that another emperor would one day take over in the same way that Palpatine did, the New Replublic declared that they would no longer have a standing military.  That way even if someone did manage to seize power they wouldn't have a huge navy to rule over everyone like the emperor did.

Meanwhile the first order started building up it's strength somewhere out in the unknown regions.  Apparently some senators were working to funnel them cash and supplies, but in general I'm not really clear on how they got so powerful.  Back in the Republic Leia could see what was starting to happen and was worried about it.  She ran to become chancellor of the New Republic in order to try and stop the growing threat, but it came out that she was Vader's daughter which caused a political scandal and she lost the election.  She was still worried about the first order, though, so she and a few others secretly founded the resistance which is the small military force that we see in the movies.

 

The Republic didn't have a standing army.  It was up to the Jedi to resolve conflicts and keep order, they were supposedly entrusted with adjudication of differences.  Palpatine played the Republic by setting up a threat, and then responding to that threat with the actual army he had built in secret to usurp power.  So, what this novel is saying; and I'm sure it is saying it as a post hoc explanation for the events of TFA, is that the Galactic Republic learned nothing, and continued to believe that not having a means to respond to threats meant that threats will not materialize.  Sort of a Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal method of diplomacy. 

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8 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

Sometimes I think, if some of us would see the OT for the first time today, they would post, how bad it is.

Actually, I'm old enough to remember those guys, that loved STAR WARS (called episode 4 nowadays), but really hated those sequels (episode 5 and 6). Such bad movies, that they shouldn't be called Star wars at all: Episode 5, when Han leaves the Falcon inside an Astroid with just a breathing mask on, that is so unrealistic. And Leia in that slave outfit is so misogynistic. And the godfather being played by a space slug is so racistic towards Italians. And those teddy bears that were able to beat those elite Stormtroopers (Ewoks) ...

Hahaha exactly!  "So Obi-Wan tried to hide Luke from his father... by moving him in with his Aunt/Uncle and not changing his last name from Skywalker? :huh:"  "Parsecs is a measure of distance, not time!  LOL I don't think this Han Solo guy knows much about smuggling."  "How stupid were the rebels, flying their snowspeeders right at the front of the AT-AT walkers instead of coming in from the sides?"  "Who built a death star in space and then decided to randomly put a trash monster in it?  How does the monster not get squished?" "Why are they being so political - who says that a big centralized imperial government is actually bad other than a few rebel hippies?" "So the rebels are attacking the death star and they launch, like, 30 TIEs to defend something the size of a moon?  Who put this Tarkin guy in charge?" "How come chewie never got a medal at the end of A New Hope?  ALIEN RACISM ALERT."

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18 minutes ago, ManateeX said:

Hahaha exactly!  "So Obi-Wan tried to hide Luke from his father... by moving him in with his Aunt/Uncle and not changing his last name from Skywalker? :huh:"  "Parsecs is a measure of distance, not time!  LOL I don't think this Han Solo guy knows much about smuggling."  "How stupid were the rebels, flying their snowspeeders right at the front of the AT-AT walkers instead of coming in from the sides?"  "Who built a death star in space and then decided to randomly put a trash monster in it?  How does the monster not get squished?" "Why are they being so political - who says that a big centralized imperial government is actually bad other than a few rebel hippies?" "So the rebels are attacking the death star and they launch, like, 30 TIEs to defend something the size of a moon?  Who put this Tarkin guy in charge?" "How come chewie never got a medal at the end of A New Hope?  ALIEN RACISM ALERT."

And the Emperor in RotJ actually arranged for the rebels to get the real plans of DS II in order to lure them into a "trap".   He could have just gave them fake blue prints instead.  

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5 minutes ago, IanSolo_FFG said:

And the Emperor in RotJ actually arranged for the rebels to get the real plans of DS II in order to lure them into a "trap".   He could have just gave them fake blue prints instead.  

No, he allowed them to know the location to lure them into a trap.  He also allowed them to believe they had an authentic security phrase because he knew they would have to go for the shield generator.  At least get the lore right if you are going to attempt to nitpick it.

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54 minutes ago, Rikalonius said:

No, he allowed them to know the location to lure them into a trap.  He also allowed them to believe they had an authentic security phrase because he knew they would have to go for the shield generator.  At least get the lore right if you are going to attempt to nitpick it.

Oops, you're right!  My bad!  At least this is how it happened in the now legends Shadows of the Empire, but not in the movie.

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Im saying DLC for movies is a bad thing. you shouldnt have to buy multiple novels or comics/games to get the full story.  they should be little tasty extras that dont hinder the story

 

im not wanting long expository scenes where people explain the timeline.  but coming from the established original trilogy.  some things need to be explained.  even a throw away line.

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On 12/23/2017 at 7:42 AM, ManateeX said:

Hahaha exactly!  "So Obi-Wan tried to hide Luke from his father... by moving him in with his Aunt/Uncle and not changing his last name from Skywalker? :huh:"  "Parsecs is a measure of distance, not time!  LOL I don't think this Han Solo guy knows much about smuggling."  "How stupid were the rebels, flying their snowspeeders right at the front of the AT-AT walkers instead of coming in from the sides?"  "Who built a death star in space and then decided to randomly put a trash monster in it?  How does the monster not get squished?" "Why are they being so political - who says that a big centralized imperial government is actually bad other than a few rebel hippies?" "So the rebels are attacking the death star and they launch, like, 30 TIEs to defend something the size of a moon?  Who put this Tarkin guy in charge?" "How come chewie never got a medal at the end of A New Hope?  ALIEN RACISM ALERT."

-the galaxy is big, there can be multiple skywalkers in the universe.

-han was using a bull**** artist technique about parsecs, obi-wan and luke didnt trust him fully.

-the speederss came from echo base, then they spread out.

-the trash monster (dianoga) is probably a alien parasite and feeds on the trash.

-most of the universe thought the galactic empire was the norm.  thats why stormtroopers were normal people. signed up in something they believed in.

-hubris, is always the empires downfall. they have pride.

-Adwyns a new hope cut fixes chewies medal.  its the only way i watch star wars now.  no prequels.

 

* I was thinking how i would feel if i saw the original trilogy today, and the things i note is the easy way to follow from scene to scene, set ups and payoffs.  understanding character motivations based on the character themselves. good writing.

the original trilogy was just good, and they were art. not a business yet.

 

Edited by Spidey NZ

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On 22/12/2017 at 2:00 PM, mtagge said:

Again I will ask. Have you ever been in a real leadership role? Like ever? Then I will reiterate my point that perhaps she hadn't formulated the plan at that point. No military leader would ever say "I don't know what to do" in that situation. Besides this insubordination came from an officer who literally just ran an operation against orders and got demoted.

But whatever. If you'd already decided you hate the film, it's not like anything anyone is going to say is going to make a difference. And there is no problem with not liking the film, its just the reasons your mind created post hoc are complete nonsense. All nitpicks you have can be levied against virtually every movie and it seems your resolute defense about why the movie is the worst thing ever is a red herring for something else. No hard feelings though.  

Really,  you think this is a valid argument? My father has held a really high position in my country's army. 

I could ask him if risking mutiny after you have formulated a plan by not sharing it with anyone else, seems like a valid strategy. I think he would laugh in my face. Because at some point Holds formulated the plan and still she didn't share it. If I have to imagine her reasons then the script is bad. 

 

Saying that my problems with the film are nonsense is an indicator of your maturity(or lack thereof) . Because you can't actually provide counter arguments, you just dismiss mine as nitpicks or nonsensical. A side story that has no reason to happen and only exists as an opportunity for the heroes to be betrayed is not good writing. Showing aptitude in force powers no one ever taught you is not good writing.  Showing that your main villain fell to the dark side because he happened to wake up a fraction of a second before his master turned off his lightsaber is not good writing. And Snoke... Snoke doesn't even need an explanation. Bad writing

 

 

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The real problem with the movie was just bad storytelling. Nothing that happened after the first 20 mins in the movie ended up mattering. Holdo's decision to sacrifice the Resistance fleet to evacuate to the Rebel base? Didn't matter. Poe's mutiny? Didn't matter. Rey's journey into the dark hole? Meaningless. Rey's training? Every force powers she uses after that didn't come from Luke. The man with the plombloom pin? Didn't matter. The entire plan to sabotage the tracker? Pointless. Holdo's sacrifice? All the villains survived and were able to continue chasing the Resistance. Holdo's/Leia's speech about heroics? Rendered pointless by Holdo's decision to sacrifice herself. The giant door and the laser battering ram? Turns out there was a secret exit all along. Finn's lesson that a greater purpose is more important than only protecting yourself and the ones you love? Rose of all people negates it and basically tells him what he already believed at the beginning of the movie, which is to screw noble causes and just protect yourself and the ones you care about (he was originally deserting to go save Rey). 90% of what happened in the movie could have not happened, and it still would have ended the same way. In the end, it may as well all have been a dream.

And they they took 4 of the biggest mysteries that Ep VII setup and unceremoniously dumpstered them, not just with what they were but how they were handled. They were thrown away like burdensome garbage that the new writers clearly resented being weighed down by. 

The movie is just a long series of shaggy dog moments and it's message is "let the past die", which comes across as "stop loving everything you love about Star Wars, because we're not selling that anymore". It's subversive for the sake of being subversive, which is just empty cynicism, like biting into a shiny apple and realizing it's hollow and bitter inside and saying "wow, that's so different than what I was expecting, what a great apple!"

Edited by Tvboy

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Everyone failed at everything they tried to do, except BB8 who was suddenly able to do anything (take down a group of guards, recruit a hacker, steal a ship, pilot a walker). Rey only got half way through one of lukes 3 lessons, then visited a hall of mirrors. Finn was reduced to comic relief, hux was reduced to jar jar. Luke Milked a 4 breasted alien just so the audience could laugh at his green milk 'tache, poe putting the bad guys on hold replaced an heroic escape (think first half of empire). The stealth technology didn't make the ships invisible, do none of the first order look out of the window?

It felt like a really bad mash up of battlestar galactica episodes. Running out of fuel, tracking through hyperspace, space casino, mutiny, stealth ship. All Battlestar Themes. They Even Made The New AT-ATs Resemble Cylons And Used The Insult "chome Dome".I

On rotten tomatoes the critics score has the being better than rogue one, the viewers score has this being worse than phantom menace.

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On 12/24/2017 at 8:40 PM, Tvboy said:

The real problem with the movie was just bad storytelling. Nothing that happened after the first 20 mins in the movie ended up mattering. Holdo's decision to sacrifice the Resistance fleet to evacuate to the Rebel base? Didn't matter. Poe's mutiny? Didn't matter. Rey's journey into the dark hole? Meaningless. Rey's training? Every force powers she uses after that didn't come from Luke. The man with the plombloom pin? Didn't matter. The entire plan to sabotage the tracker? Pointless. Holdo's sacrifice? All the villains survived and were able to continue chasing the Resistance. Holdo's/Leia's speech about heroics? Rendered pointless by Holdo's decision to sacrifice herself. The giant door and the laser battering ram? Turns out there was a secret exit all along. Finn's lesson that a greater purpose is more important than only protecting yourself and the ones you love? Rose of all people negates it and basically tells him what he already believed at the beginning of the movie, which is to screw noble causes and just protect yourself and the ones you care about (he was originally deserting to go save Rey). 90% of what happened in the movie could have not happened, and it still would have ended the same way. In the end, it may as well all have been a dream.

And they they took 4 of the biggest mysteries that Ep VII setup and unceremoniously dumpstered them, not just with what they were but how they were handled. They were thrown away like burdensome garbage that the new writers clearly resented being weighed down by. 

The movie is just a long series of shaggy dog moments and it's message is "let the past die", which comes across as "stop loving everything you love about Star Wars, because we're not selling that anymore". It's subversive for the sake of being subversive, which is just empty cynicism, like biting into a shiny apple and realizing it's hollow and bitter inside and saying "wow, that's so different than what I was expecting, what a great apple!"

Very well articulated summation.  I allowed my anger to cloud my review. I walked out furious, but this review cements why I was, because you are 100% right. 

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I for one loved it. 

Sure there were big holes in it but so does every movie have (avengers, batman vs superman and so on) 

The Kylo/Rey part was fantastic.

Rose/Finn was entertaining but not great. 

Poe/Leia/Holdo was a good lesson for Poe (but me being a platoon commander in the Swedish army know not to withhold important information from my squads. So this was hard to swallow) and the characters interaction was great.

The villains was once again a little underwhelming, Phasma not doing much (the fightscene was great)  and Hux being a comedy figure. Snoke was alright and his demise without back story doesn't bother me at all. Kylo was great.

Luke was hard to accept at first but after a while when I had accepted what he thought of himself I thought it fitting. 

8/10 from me. 

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To be honest I really, really like the new trilogy. A lot better than I-III - although that was an ungrateful task to start with. What if you try to see the series as if the old didn't exist?
Although I am the first one to admit the new trilogy also has its flaws. Yet TFA still is my favourite SW movie thus far. I think TLJ is great as well, especially with more funny beasts and lighthearted humour, but I liked TFA's plotline better.  But of course making the middle movie is always a tough job, it's always about setting up a final challenge that the last episode has to overcome.

A lot of good things, absolutely great to see Luke do the fight on Crait, being shot at by all the AT ATs and survive to fight Ren .. to see it was all an illusion. Brilliant find! Poe as the ace pilot was great to see again. More funny animals and creatures (like the crystal foxes, wow!). I liked Canto Bight and all its creatures and the emphasis on people getting fabulously rich in the weapon industry. It was good to see Rose and Finn get a nice subplot, even though it ended up badly. In my opinion that's one of the good parts of the movie: not everything succeeds. Which only adds to the realism (one of the reasons I really liked Rogue One). Not giving Benico del Toro some more lines to develop his character was a missed chance. Him revealing the escaping Rebel pods also cut off some potential come-back as a hero.

Minor issues
A small thing I do regret in the new trilogy is that (athough they even find and "old deserted base") the spaceships used in the movies always appear to be new, yet unseen models. Why can't they find an old iconic A-Wing - as the OT happened only 30 years ago; we also still have cars from 1987; let alone that we may find some back in old abandoned shacks on a regular basis? Or even from the Clone Wars, which only took place like .. 50 years ago? There still must be hundreds of thousands of droids, hailfire and homing spider droids and V-Wings scattered all over the Galaxy. It seems so unrealistic that the past has been erased from that point of view. A missed chance to easily connect the new series with the old and please the fans.

For the rest I agree with some already mentioned issues. The Rebellion only being left with 10 people? What episode IX is concerned one may wonder what happens IF the FO is defeated. There's no Rebellion or Republic/senate (destroyed in episode VII) left to rule the universe.
Why the purple headed vice admiral instead of Ackbar doing a last heroic deed? And if you could warp into your enemy's ship and destroy it, why not warp X-Wings into big Star Destroyers and wipe out entire FO fleets?
Generally I don't really like it when 1 on 1,000 odds are overcome by sheer luck, again and again. Why did the FO shoot almost all the pods, but not the ones with our main heroes? And BB8 knwing what to do, being able to climb into AT-STs and use them?
Why do all the characters from episodes IV-VI have to die? Why did Luke have to die? It was majorly unfortunate that Carrie Fisher passed away as she was the only one whose role didn't end in the series. Indeed Leia should have died when the bridge died, a good way to end her character. And let Luke survive into episode IX instead.

Questions, questions ..
As some other already pointed out: two of our main characters - Rey and Snoke - aren't properly explained thus far. What was Snoke if not a Sith Lord in all his behaviour yet not in name? And how did he attain power? And related: can Rey call herself a Jedi with just 2 days of training?
I am very curious about what happened to Rey and who took care of her when she was abandoned by her parents (whoever they were) at age 8. And how she could become a fantastic pilot and technician in these circumstances. Rey's lightsabre may as well become a double one one like Maul used to wield. Probably not a red one, though.

And what happened in the 30s years between VI and VII .. had it all been for nothing? Might as well get a prequel for episode VII to explain what has happend ..

Still a solid 8.6/10 from me.

 

Edited by Findariel

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2 hours ago, Etheneus said:

I for one loved it. 

Sure there were big holes in it but so does every movie have (avengers, batman vs superman and so on) 

No, every movie does not have big holes in it. It's one of the things that separates good movies from bad movies.

Many elements make a movie and you only have to screw up 1 or 2 to ruin a movie. This film may get Oscar nominations for acting, effects and sound but it will also get nominated for razzies for directing and screenwriting.

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1 hour ago, Findariel said:

Minor issues

Why do all the characters from episodes IV-VI have to die? Why did Luke have to die? It was majorly unfortunate that Carrie Fisher passed away as she was the only one whose role didn't end in the series. Indeed Leia should have died when the bridge died, a good way to end her character. And let Luke survive into episode IX instead.

 

I think the movie made that pretty clear.  Disney is cleansing the palette of all us clingers-on with our expectations.  We fans who bought the toys, comic books, board games, video games,  and the novels from 1979 through 2012.  They want us gone.  Kill it if you have too.  We are weighing down the franchise with our preconceived notions.  They need a long enduring model of cycling through merchandise buyers from one trilogy to the next.  Once this trilogy is over, they'll recycle it all again.  Star Wars 2021.

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1 hour ago, Rikalonius said:

I think the movie made that pretty clear.  Disney is cleansing the palette of all us clingers-on with our expectations.  We fans who bought the toys, comic books, board games, video games,  and the novels from 1979 through 2012.  They want us gone.  Kill it if you have too.  We are weighing down the franchise with our preconceived notions.  They need a long enduring model of cycling through merchandise buyers from one trilogy to the next.  Once this trilogy is over, they'll recycle it all again.  Star Wars 2021.

While I'm not a fan of the new movie, this criticism doesn't ring true to me. You accuse Disney of BOTH recycling Star Wars AND cleansing all our expectations. Surely it cannot, by definition, DO both.

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1 hour ago, Rikalonius said:

I think the movie made that pretty clear.  Disney is cleansing the palette of all us clingers-on with our expectations.  We fans who bought the toys, comic books, board games, video games,  and the novels from 1979 through 2012.  They want us gone.  Kill it if you have too.  We are weighing down the franchise with our preconceived notions.  They need a long enduring model of cycling through merchandise buyers from one trilogy to the next.  Once this trilogy is over, they'll recycle it all again.  Star Wars 2021.

While I'm not a fan of the new movie, this criticism doesn't ring true to me. You accuse Disney of BOTH recycling Star Wars AND cleansing all our expectations. Surely it cannot, by definition, DO both.

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On 12/24/2017 at 8:40 PM, Tvboy said:

And they they took 4 of the biggest mysteries that Ep VII setup and unceremoniously dumpstered them, not just with what they were but how they were handled. They were thrown away like burdensome garbage that the new writers clearly resented being weighed down by.

I was actually happy about that.  One thing I hate about JJ Abrams is his whole "mystery box" film making tactic.  The big reveal at the end of Empire was a big reveal because there wasn't a mystery.  No one was asking who Luke's parents were.  Not with JJ.  JJ's method of getting you back in that seat is leaving you with questions.  As far as I'm concerned Rian Johnson just cut out something that didn't need to be there.

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I think I loved this weird, wonderfully messy film.

Definitely needs another viewing! Quick thoughts (that have probably been said already):

  • Ackbar should've replaced Holdo
  • I liked the Casino planet, but the Finn and Rose storyline should have been trimmed/edited out completely. It was oozing with Disney.
  • Royal. Guards. :wub:
  • A lot of the humour fell pretty flat, though I liked the "reach out" scene quite a bit
  • Every single story convention was flipped on its head. I love how Rey came from nowhere but definitely needed more Snoke, hoping he'll return
  • Something was off about the pace...Force Awakens was so exciting and brisk!
  • No hook for the third film
  • Everything with Luke was great
  • Very little world building/no lore to sink your teeth into

 

Edited by Armandhammer

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1 hour ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I was actually happy about that.  One thing I hate about JJ Abrams is his whole "mystery box" film making tactic.  The big reveal at the end of Empire was a big reveal because there wasn't a mystery.  No one was asking who Luke's parents were.  Not with JJ.  JJ's method of getting you back in that seat is leaving you with questions.  As far as I'm concerned Rian Johnson just cut out something that didn't need to be there.

Exactly!  Look at it this way - in 99.9% of movies you never meet or even think about the main characters' parents.  If they're not important to the story they're not mentioned, and why should they be?

In The Force Awakens it felt like they were talking about Rey's parents only because it was a Star Wars movie and Luke's parentage had been a big moment in Empire.  There was no need for them to even be involved, and every time either movie (the last one or this one) mentioned Rey's parentage it just brought me out of the story and made me think about how the director shouldn't even be talking about this.  Like in this movie, when Kylo was linked with Rey and was all "I know who your parents are, I can show you, blah blah blah". Why would he even care enough to have found out that information?  Even if it was important to her (which could make sense) there's no reason for him to have looked that up at any time before they linked up.  That whole thread of dialogue felt more like the filmmakers talking to the audience than it did two characters talking to each other, and it was all because Abrams wanted to leave a "mystery" at the end of the last movie.  I'm really glad that they've got all that behind them now.

Edited by ManateeX

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1 hour ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I was actually happy about that.  One thing I hate about JJ Abrams is his whole "mystery box" film making tactic.  The big reveal at the end of Empire was a big reveal because there wasn't a mystery.  No one was asking who Luke's parents were.  Not with JJ.  JJ's method of getting you back in that seat is leaving you with questions.  As far as I'm concerned Rian Johnson just cut out something that didn't need to be there.

I didn't even like the Force Awakens, but in doing what Rian does, he just makes a reboot of a reboot and it makes Rey even more contrived.  We are supposed to forget that this girl with no connect whatsoever to the bigger story is called by the lightsaber and then shown a vision of Luke with his metal hand, and of Kylo killing Jedi students?  It isn't as if the image was imprinted by Luke because that's the lightsaber that was lost at Bespin.  Then Maz says it was Luke's lightsaber, and his father's before that "and now it calls to you."  That was a stupid scene, but it exists, so disregarding it is equally stupid.  It would be like ignoring that Peter's Quill's father was a celestial.  "Nah, Peter, the Nova Core was wrong, you are just a normal dude who happened to be able to be able to hold an infinity stone and live, unlike any other mortal."  

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