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Bibbles

Sexism.....Sexism never changes...... 

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Seriously one out of five???

Just opened and gasped. There is only one female character. What going on? Is there a Ladies of the Wasteland expansion coming out? I have a 3:1 ratio of women to men in my gaming circle. This really make it a tough sell and leaves it on the shelf lonely. I hate lonely games!!!!

Most of my gaming is a couples night often with an extra female player. At the very minimum I get two as my wife and one of her friends wants to play, but both made that sour face I've come to dread. Same face as the first time I managed to get a girl to play DND with me only to break it to her that the only difference between a male and female characters was a strength penalty. Come on give me a break.

I'll buy a 3 female character expansion.....PLEASE:(

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Yeah its a **** shame that we dont get alt figures for Survivor (female), Wastelander (male) and Ghoul (female). Outcast can be any gender and Super Mutants are all genderless. But expect many, many future expansions.

Edited by VonRoary

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Male and female supermutants are indistinguishable. But, really, the only difference between male and female characters is the mini and the card. The mini can be changed and the picture on the card isn't actually viewable in-game. Here's a female vault dweller, for instance

fo-promo-sole-survivor-female-white-back

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ok so here we go......

The super mutatns have no gender and if you actaully want to get technical they are mostly formally women, next you have no idea what the gender of the figure in power armor is, and fianlly you are only assuming that the ghoul is a man based on the way the figure is dressed. When actually the Ghouls of the waste land have been so exposed to radiation they are basically genderless.

Final count: one male vault dweller, one female wastelander, one unknown BoS outcast, and two genderless creatures of the wasteland.

Of course this entire discussion is really moot as being male or female has no impact at all on the game.

 

*edits for grammar*

Edited by RedSkull

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5 hours ago, RedSkull said:

When actually the Ghouls of the waste land have been so exposed to radiation they are basically genderless.

Based on some of the reaction in the various games, I always assumed that a ghoul's naughty bits were still fully functional .

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On 12/15/2017 at 8:22 PM, Hedgehobbit said:

Based on some of the reaction in the various games, I always assumed that a ghoul's naughty bits were still fully functional .

 

Maybe? 

but with how they have been so exposed to radiation we have no way of knowing.  Could always try and reach out to Bethesda for some answers haha.

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On 12/15/2017 at 5:22 PM, Hedgehobbit said:

Based on some of the reaction in the various games, I always assumed that a ghoul's naughty bits were still fully functional .

 

On 12/19/2017 at 11:04 AM, Fnoffen said:

My guess is that said bits are present and partly functional but that the actual ovaries and testicles have shut down making reproduction impossible.

 

After doing the quest in New Vegas that led me to recruit a female Ghoul for pay-for-play work, I started wondering how that would work.  The skin, the voices... ghouls seem very ... desiccated.

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I totally agree with the original post, there is definitely room for more female representation in this game and in gaming in general for that matter. The semantics of if a Ghoul has sex organs or if the Brotherhood dude is a dude, although amusing, isn't relevant. There is only one actually obviously female character and I agree that there should be more... 

What I think is weird, and even more sexist than the lack of distinctly female characters, is the language used in almost all of the rule books from Fantasy Flight Games. Every FFG rule book I can think of refers to players as males. Whilst my girlfriend mostly finds that amusing (saying things like "oh I guess that rule doesn't apply to me, ha ha ha..."), I think it's a bit outdated and kind of annoying. 

It wouldn't be hard to simply use neutral terminology... for example, "When a Player does something they do something else". Surely the gaming community has matured and grown past only including males? 

 

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While I didn't call it sexism, I was disappointed at first glance with only one female character.  My wife played the first game with me and she immediately chose the wastelander as it was the only female. She commented that she wished there were more female miniatures and by the end of the game, her biggest complaint was that there were no other female miniatures. She said that that deters her from playing the other classes, which I can understand. She suggested maybe taking female miniatures from other games to use as replacement figures for this one. It would be nice if there were official alternatives that people who care about could purchase, because obviously, this isn't for everyone, as made obvious by the comments, but for those of us that do care and would like to spend money on it, why not?

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I'll start this off by saying I agree, though the BoS outcast could be either gender.  Power Armor (thank all that is good) has never had a "female" variant with a more shapely form, and the BoS has never shown any qualms about having female paladins.

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I'm suspect the OP is trolling, which makes me wonder how this thread was even allowed to post, considering that every post I make is being policed by moderators...

 

but I'd like to chime in, if that is okay.

 

I mean, if I was an SJW, I would be in all caps right now "did you just assume the gender of the BOS and the Super Mutant characters?!"

I am not an SJW, just an avid fan of the Fallout Universe.

I use caps(not the currency, the other kind of caps) for emphasis, not anger.

This game has

The Vault Dweller, who is clearly male.

The Wastelander, who is clearly female

The BOS Outcast, whose gender is not visible, considering that the BOS has both males and females and they both look exactly the same in the power armor and there are several prominent female BOS characters in across all the games who all wear power armor.

The Ghoul, who is clearly male, but also a ghoul...although, it IS established in the video games that ghouls do have working...parts... and there are even ghoul prostitutes to cater to certain people's "preferences"

and The Super Mutant, whom as others above have already stated is androgynous and sterile. Several super mutants in the video games have asserted their gender. one(I belive its name is Fawkes, you find it in Fallout 3) claims to be female and explains that male and female super mutants look the same. while in new vegas, you find a super mutant companion that is female and talks like a granny and wears a granny wig to express her gender.  however, given that they are sterile, I'm leaning toward the idea that the majority of super mutants are gender neutral or genderless and they themselves, do not have gender expression in their society as most of them don't even remember their lives as humans and probably don't even know what sex they were to begin with.

 

 

so, what we have is

NOT

4 males,

1 female,

 

WE HAVE

1 male

1 female

1 undeclared

1 neuter

1 walking corpse, formerly male, possibly with working male plumbing...

 

I would say that's actually pretty diverse and progressive, IMO.

I mean, the ghoul DOES start off vilified, so people in the wasteland might not be as open minded as I am,but hey.

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On 12/14/2017 at 11:14 PM, Bibbles said:

Seriously one out of five???

Just opened and gasped. There is only one female character. What going on? Is there a Ladies of the Wasteland expansion coming out? I have a 3:1 ratio of women to men in my gaming circle. This really make it a tough sell and leaves it on the shelf lonely. I hate lonely games!!!!

Most of my gaming is a couples night often with an extra female player. At the very minimum I get two as my wife and one of her friends wants to play, but both made that sour face I've come to dread. Same face as the first time I managed to get a girl to play DND with me only to break it to her that the only difference between a male and female characters was a strength penalty. Come on give me a break.

I'll buy a 3 female character expansion.....PLEASE:(

Seriously? this is your concern about the game?

we happen to have a 100% Male group, not one issue was raised when one of us has to play the female character in the game ... or any other game, such as Eldritch Horror .. in Fact we quite often go with female characters in Horror as they seem to have the better advantages. thinking back even with Cluedo who cared who was Miss Scarlet or Mrs White?? can't help but feel the SJW are getting everywhere

My Point, its Just a game, if someone looks at a playing piece and says "I can't possibly play that character, its a different sex to me" i think that says more about the player than the game

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I can see what you're trying to say Slash Macbain but I can imagine it would be frustrating for women to feel unrepresented so often. Games do reflect our culture, which at the moment unfortunately is still a very male dominated one.

I guess the thing with this discussion is, that the original post wasn't only about the frustration of women wanting to play as women... I think the real issue was more to do with female representation in the gaming world being fairly limited and how much better it would be if games had more female characters.

Simply put, females are underrepresented in gaming and it would be nice to see that change to encourage and support the growth in their representation both in the game and at the table.  

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1 hour ago, player2017979 said:

I can see what you're trying to say Slash Macbain but I can imagine it would be frustrating for women to feel unrepresented so often. Games do reflect our culture, which at the moment unfortunately is still a very male dominated one.

I guess the thing with this discussion is, that the original post wasn't only about the frustration of women wanting to play as women... I think the real issue was more to do with female representation in the gaming world being fairly limited and how much better it would be if games had more female characters.

Simply put, females are underrepresented in gaming and it would be nice to see that change to encourage and support the growth in their representation both in the game and at the table.  

I'm Sorry, but I'm going to say it again anyway lol

Eldritch Horror is one of the popular games among our group .. even on the occasions, which are few I admit, that the ladies join in on this game Not Once! has anyone .. the guys or women.. been bothered about the sex of a character, we look at which characters work well together, which are going to give a decent chance of a win, the guys play female characters, the women have played male characters ... its a bit of card with some details on it, thats all.

when we found out an old copy of Heroquest ... and did some homebrew updates with added characters etc. plenty of female based ones ... who went straight for the original Male Barbarian, my friends Wife

I would suggest true gamers male or female are not bothered who or what they play, and maybe the women in question are just trying to be kind and are simply not interested in this particular game and are using the lack of female characters as reason not to join in.

so my question is are the women in out group odd because they don't at any point stop to think and worry about the sex of a character or playing piece? .. or maybe we are just very lucky to have easy going, laid-back women in the group?

Next time we get together though, I will raise the question because I am curious what their response will be ... I will report back then :)

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I don't think the women in your group are odd for not worrying about it, but I do think that it would show better design if more female characters were included...

Eldrich/Arkham are a great examples of games with lots of both male and female characters to choose from and you don't notice it. I think the real issue here isn't as much about being fussy about if you are playing a male or female character, it's about representation and choice.

None of the women we play with complain or worry about being a male character, and will actively choose male characters to play, but it is a bit ridiculous when they don't even really get a choice. I think it just shows a lack of thought and creativity in design.   

Realistically, I'd say the designers didn't really think much about it and just came up with characters based on the franchise, but as I said before if you think about it, better female representation means a more diverse culture and more accessibility for expanding the gaming community to everyone.

Under representation won't stop female gamers from playing but it doesn't exactly encourage women who are new to the hobby to take it up either.

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16 hours ago, player2017979 said:

I don't think the women in your group are odd for not worrying about it, but I do think that it would show better design if more female characters were included...

Eldrich/Arkham are a great examples of games with lots of both male and female characters to choose from and you don't notice it. I think the real issue here isn't as much about being fussy about if you are playing a male or female character, it's about representation and choice.

None of the women we play with complain or worry about being a male character, and will actively choose male characters to play, but it is a bit ridiculous when they don't even really get a choice. I think it just shows a lack of thought and creativity in design.   

Realistically, I'd say the designers didn't really think much about it and just came up with characters based on the franchise, but as I said before if you think about it, better female representation means a more diverse culture and more accessibility for expanding the gaming community to everyone.

Under representation won't stop female gamers from playing but it doesn't exactly encourage women who are new to the hobby to take it up either.

so games should be designed with a better male, female ratio? .. what about Flash Point: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/100901/flash-point-fire-rescue  again just 1 female character, is this poor game design, or is it just actually showing the reality of the world we live in?, where the vast majority (not all though) of fire fighters are Male.

And again as noted above, its odd to naturally assume the Brotherhood character is male, despite the Orders name there are women in it, so that could easily be a woman in that armour, as i have already said, it seems to suggest more about the mindset of the players than the designers

Now where are all the guys?, so we can start complaining about Tomb Raider and other games where Men not being represented?

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Why has nobody mentioned an even more serious matter: that of sexual harassment?

Surely touching the female miniature without her expressed permission constitutes gross sexual harassment and shouldn't be allowed. I for one will not touch the female miniature in Fallout until she specifically gives me permission.

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Ha ha... Oh no, how about us poor men and our under representation in board games and the board gaming community! How will we ever be encouraged to get to the table!!!  ; P

Joking aside, I know this conversation is probably about to get derailed but I still think it is a valuable one to have... so I guess I'll try to keep going??

All I think the original post was trying to say is that it would have been way easier to encourage the female members of the group to play Fallout over any other game if the design choices where a little more like Eldritch etc and included a choice of obviously female characters...

...and I agree...

I'm not sure what the stats are for the board game community in general but from what I can see, there are far less female members than male ones (just go to any convention or comp) and it would be great to see designers encourage more women to play by making subtle design choices that help more women relate to the hobby. 

So that's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about if someone could decide to use their imagination and picture a woman under a suit of armour belonging to the Brotherhood of Steel or imagine the Ghoul is simply a kind of androgynous looking yet female tomboy (that sounds way creepier than it was supposed to ; P)...

It's not an attack on men or anything weird and sinister like that, it's more of a simple commentary on wanting to encourage more women to play the games we all love by including them in design choices.

I don't really understand why people would want to argue against that??

Edited by player2017979

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