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Isawa Lasha

Talisman of the Sun

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I'm trying to not let Old L5R cloud my mind as I read this card.  When the ring is moved to a new province do all attackers and defenders move with it or is the new battlefield empty until characters can be brought in through other means?  

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17 hours ago, Isawa Lasha said:

I'm trying to not let Old L5R cloud my mind as I read this card.  When the ring is moved to a new province do all attackers and defenders move with it or is the new battlefield empty until characters can be brought in through other means?  

All attackers and defenders move (don't actually move, can't trigger ide trader for example). 

Is just a province change.

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hello tie breaker.

So anyway it appears basically that the Talisman teleports everybody to the new location. Either that or it created a mirage that you are in a certain province and once the talisman clears the illusion everyone finds themselves on the real province location. ?

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The way I understand how it works according to the way it reads and the order of events and actions is as follows.

You bow the talisman after declaration during the conflict action phase as the defender. Ref 3.2.2 (conflict action window). This moves the ring and conflict to a different province. This new province is possibly revealed, but not declared. That already happened, so you don’t get any declared benefits. 

The declared characters up to this point stay in the old conflict. The only way to get characters into the new conflict is by moving them or playing them out of your conflict deck. This is Unicorns ability FYI. The new conflict resumes as normal until both players pass. The conflict now moves to ref 3.2.3. And on until conflict resolution.  

The characters in the old or first conflict simply just return home as they are because that conflict never resolved. It never got pass the action phase, so the battle never resolved. Any characters who were bowed or standing go home that way cause it ended at that point, otherwise there would have to be two conflicts going at the same time with two seperate resolutions. That’s not what it says, it says it moved. 

Talisman of the Sun and Chasing the Sun are both great cards for Unicorn cause it shifts the conflict into Unicorns favor by moving the conflict which Unicorn does not have an issue with. 

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35 minutes ago, Shane Wintch said:

The way I understand how it works according to the way it reads and the order of events and actions is as follows.

You bow the talisman after declaration during the conflict action phase as the defender. Ref 3.2.2 (conflict action window). This moves the ring and conflict to a different province. This new province is possibly revealed, but not declared. That already happened, so you don’t get any declared benefits. 

The declared characters up to this point stay in the old conflict. The only way to get characters into the new conflict is by moving them or playing them out of your conflict deck. This is Unicorns ability FYI. The new conflict resumes as normal until both players pass. The conflict now moves to ref 3.2.3. And on until conflict resolution.  

The characters in the old or first conflict simply just return home as they are because that conflict never resolved. It never got pass the action phase, so the battle never resolved. Any characters who were bowed or standing go home that way cause it ended at that point, otherwise there would have to be two conflicts going at the same time with two seperate resolutions. That’s not what it says, it says it moved. 

Talisman of the Sun and Chasing the Sun are both great cards for Unicorn cause it shifts the conflict into Unicorns favor by moving the conflict which Unicorn does not have an issue with. 

You understand it incorrectly. The only thing that Chasing the Sun and Talisman do is change what province is being attacked, characters that were participating before the triggering of Chasing/Talisman are still participating at the new location as well.

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43 minutes ago, Shane Wintch said:

The way I understand how it works according to the way it reads and the order of events and actions is as follows.

You bow the talisman after declaration during the conflict action phase as the defender. Ref 3.2.2 (conflict action window). This moves the ring and conflict to a different province. This new province is possibly revealed, but not declared. That already happened, so you don’t get any declared benefits. 

The declared characters up to this point stay in the old conflict. The only way to get characters into the new conflict is by moving them or playing them out of your conflict deck. This is Unicorns ability FYI. The new conflict resumes as normal until both players pass. The conflict now moves to ref 3.2.3. And on until conflict resolution.  

The characters in the old or first conflict simply just return home as they are because that conflict never resolved. It never got pass the action phase, so the battle never resolved. Any characters who were bowed or standing go home that way cause it ended at that point, otherwise there would have to be two conflicts going at the same time with two seperate resolutions. That’s not what it says, it says it moved. 

Talisman of the Sun and Chasing the Sun are both great cards for Unicorn cause it shifts the conflict into Unicorns favor by moving the conflict which Unicorn does not have an issue with. 

Talisman of the Sun does not create a new conflict.  It simply moves the conflict from one province to another. 

The text on Talisman of the Sun is: "Action: During a conflict in which you are the defending player, bow this attachment – move the contested ring to another eligible province and reveal it, if able. That province is now the attacked province."  So the ring is moved to a new province and that is where the conflict now is.

You are correct that the conflict is not declared at the new province so any "on declare" triggers will not go off.  If the new province is revealed any "on reveal" triggers will go off however.

Edit: ninja'd by a Goblin Guide!

Edited by Horizonshard

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People really need to stop trying to build facsimiles of reality when resolving card effects.

When you activate Talisman of the Sun, you move the ring from one province to another. That's literally all there is to it. The conflict doesn't 'move' to the new province. It isn't a new conflict. No-one 'relocates'. Nobody 'teleports'.

There are some pieces of card in your conflict zone, some pieces of card in your home zone, and a cardboard circle on the province of one of the two players. That cardboard circle moves.

That is all.

Anything else is people trying to make stuff up to explain things in a narrative sense.

Don't do that; it's just game mechanics. I understand why people try to do that, but don't. You confuse yourself and you confuse other people.

Just to be clear:

You pick up the contested ring and you put it down somewhere else.

Since the ring indicates which province is being attacked, the province that is being attacked has changed. The only possible side effect is that the new province might have to be turned face-up. Characters in the conflict zone are still in the conflict zone. The province that may get broken is still 'the one with the ring on it'.

Think game mechanics, not fluff.

 

Edited by InquisitorM

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3 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

People really need to stop trying to build facsimiles of reality when resolving card effects.

When you activate Talisman of the Sun, you move the ring from one province to another. That's literally all there is to it. The conflict doesn't 'move' to the new province. It isn't a new conflict. No-one 'relocates'. Nobody 'teleports'.

There are some pieces of card in your conflict zone, some pieces of card in your home zone, and a cardboard circle on the province of one of the two players. That cardboard circle moves.

That is all.

Anything else is people trying to make stuff up to explain things in a narrative sense.

Don't do that; it's just game mechanics. I understand why people try to do that, but don't. You confuse yourself and you confuse other people.

Just to be clear:

You pick up the contested ring and you put it down somewhere else.

Since the ring indicates which province is being attacked, the province that is being attacked has changed. The only possible side effect is that the new province might have to be turned face-up. Characters in the conflict zone are still in the conflict zone. The province that may get broken is still 'the one with the ring on it'.

Think game mechanics, not fluff.

 

Oi! As long as we agree on the game mechanics, the fluff of it can be whatever the heck we want. Don't yuck our yum.

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4 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

People really need to stop trying to build facsimiles of reality when resolving card effects.

When you activate Talisman of the Sun, you move the ring from one province to another. That's literally all there is to it. The conflict doesn't 'move' to the new province. It isn't a new conflict. No-one 'relocates'. Nobody 'teleports'.

There are some pieces of card in your conflict zone, some pieces of card in your home zone, and a cardboard circle on the province of one of the two players. That cardboard circle moves.

That is all.

Anything else is people trying to make stuff up to explain things in a narrative sense.

Don't do that; it's just game mechanics. I understand why people try to do that, but don't. You confuse yourself and you confuse other people.

Just to be clear:

You pick up the contested ring and you put it down somewhere else.

Since the ring indicates which province is being attacked, the province that is being attacked has changed. The only possible side effect is that the new province might have to be turned face-up. Characters in the conflict zone are still in the conflict zone. The province that may get broken is still 'the one with the ring on it'.

Think game mechanics, not fluff.

 

So wait... you mean this card ISN'T the devilry of an evil shadow creature pulling your opponent's attackers into its ruby prison as a non-conflict, non-home area no man's land from which their souls can never escape?

Nevermind splashing this, what a snoozefest. :lol:

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I don't think fluff is so bad, but you really have to use the right analogy.  When you use Talisman of the sun the characters don't move or teleport - the land does.  Its like one minute they are fighting on an open field, the next moment they are fighting in the throne room.  You're changing the background, but you aren't moving the camera or cast.

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On 12/27/2017 at 4:27 PM, Horizonshard said:

Talisman of the Sun does not create a new conflict.  It simply moves the conflict from one province to another. 

The text on Talisman of the Sun is: "Action: During a conflict in which you are the defending player, bow this attachment – move the contested ring to another eligible province and reveal it, if able. That province is now the attacked province."  So the ring is moved to a new province and that is where the conflict now is.

You are correct that the conflict is not declared at the new province so any "on declare" triggers will not go off.  If the new province is revealed any "on reveal" triggers will go off however.

Edit: ninja'd by a Goblin Guide!

Thanks for clarifying this, i was confused cause it says the ring moves but it doesn’t clarify if the characters move with  it. So they all teleport to the new province. ??

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On 12/31/2017 at 11:34 PM, Shane Wintch said:

Thanks for clarifying this, i was confused cause it says the ring moves but it doesn’t clarify if the characters move with  it. So they all teleport to the new province. ??

  No, they don't teleport. The Sun got in their eyes due to the talisman, and it turns out they weren't where they thought they were ;)

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